Why is ODLH on your greatest of all time list?
 |
|
|
|
Thanks: 0
Likes: 0
Dislikes: 0
Kick his ass Sea Bass!
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
Why is ODLH on your greatest of all time list?
"If there's a better chin in the world than Pryor's, it has to be on Mount Rushmore." -Pat Putnam.
Forum Greatest Of All Time
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
Floyd Mayweather jr. vs. Donald Curry- Mayweather UD
Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Carlos Palomino- SRR UD
Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Oscar De La Hoya- Leonard UD
Emile Griffith vs. Henry Armstrong- Griffith SD
Felix Trinidad vs. Kid Gavilan- Gavilan UD
Thomas Hearns vs. Simon Brown- Hearns TKO
Pipino Cuevas vs. Pernell Whitaker- Whitaker UD
Jose Angel Napoles vs. 'Barbados' Joe Walcott- Napoles TKO
Psalm 144: Blessed be the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle
Forum Greatest Of All Time
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
Although I agree with your argument that the Whitaker fight should not be an indicator that DLH would beat Leonard, especially when it was such a close fight and I feel Leonard was a better Welterweight than Whitaker was. I really don't see the need to make exagerated comments to proove your point.Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
I agree with Sweetpea no way on earth would ODLH beat a prime SRL. And using an old Whitaker to support an argument that ODLH could beat Leonard is not a good argument at all. First off Whitaker was way past his prime and had been fading since the Wilfredo Rivera fights, and even though it was an old shot Whitaker he still made ODLH look foolish all night and landed many jabs on ODLH. And IMO the fight was a draw, ODLH never faced anyone who had such good movement and great hand speed at Welterweight like Leonard had. What about Mosley vs ODLH 1 ?? Mosley beat ODLH to the punch all night and out boxed him clearly and won by about 4 rounds and that was in ODLH prime. Don't you think SRL could do the same and beat ODLH to the punch while out boxing him on the outside ??I assumed this list was prime-vs.-prime. Oscar didn't fight a prime Pernell.HUGE FAN....Mick, I know you're a big Oscar fan, but do you really think Oscar would have a chance against Ray Leonard? I can't think of one thing that Oscar does as well as Leonard. Ray was bigger, faster, stronger, etc.
I think a strong argument can be made that Leonard is the 2nd best welter ever. I'm not even sure that Oscar is top 15.
I think Oscars talent expands thru the divisions he's been in with the exception of the Middleweight div.
Other then that I give him a damn! good chance against the best in every divisions he's fought in.
To say that he would beat SRL, IMO is nothing out of this world or something that's unimaginable.
Pernells harder to hit then SRL but Oscar was able to land and beat Pernell.
So why not SRL, I can't tell you how the fight would go but I think Oscar could pull it off.
What elements of the sport do you think Oscar was better at than a prime Leonard at 147?
Whitaker was not WAY passed his prime. He may not have been at his best but he was not as far from it as you imply and he was certanly not shot.
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
Whitaker had been fading since before ODLH fight, watch his fights against Wilfredo Rivera x2, Diosbelys Hurtado, he didn't look good in any of these fights and most people thought Whitaker was a shot fighter. Whitaker could not mount a good offensive attack on ODLH like the old Whitaker could, he was good on defense against ODLH but like i just said his offense was nothing like the old Whitaker. Its not exaggerated comment its the truth that Whitaker's skills were gradually declining he was dropped a combined 3 times in his last 3 fights prior to fighting ODLH fight. And if ODLH would of fought prime Whitaker i think Whitaker would of clearly out pointed ODLH by at least 4 rounds.Although I agree with your argument that the Whitaker fight should not be an indicator that DLH would beat Leonard, especially when it was such a close fight and I feel Leonard was a better Welterweight than Whitaker was. I really don't see the need to make exagerated comments to proove your point.I agree with Sweetpea no way on earth would ODLH beat a prime SRL. And using an old Whitaker to support an argument that ODLH could beat Leonard is not a good argument at all. First off Whitaker was way past his prime and had been fading since the Wilfredo Rivera fights, and even though it was an old shot Whitaker he still made ODLH look foolish all night and landed many jabs on ODLH. And IMO the fight was a draw, ODLH never faced anyone who had such good movement and great hand speed at Welterweight like Leonard had. What about Mosley vs ODLH 1 ?? Mosley beat ODLH to the punch all night and out boxed him clearly and won by about 4 rounds and that was in ODLH prime. Don't you think SRL could do the same and beat ODLH to the punch while out boxing him on the outside ??I assumed this list was prime-vs.-prime. Oscar didn't fight a prime Pernell.HUGE FAN....Mick, I know you're a big Oscar fan, but do you really think Oscar would have a chance against Ray Leonard? I can't think of one thing that Oscar does as well as Leonard. Ray was bigger, faster, stronger, etc.
I think a strong argument can be made that Leonard is the 2nd best welter ever. I'm not even sure that Oscar is top 15.
I think Oscars talent expands thru the divisions he's been in with the exception of the Middleweight div.
Other then that I give him a damn! good chance against the best in every divisions he's fought in.
To say that he would beat SRL, IMO is nothing out of this world or something that's unimaginable.
Pernells harder to hit then SRL but Oscar was able to land and beat Pernell.
So why not SRL, I can't tell you how the fight would go but I think Oscar could pull it off.
What elements of the sport do you think Oscar was better at than a prime Leonard at 147?
Whitaker was not WAY passed his prime. He may not have been at his best but he was not as far from it as you imply and he was certanly not shot.
Forum Greatest Of All Time
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
That last post ICE was a much better and more accurate description of the situation. The one before, especially the comments I highlighted, was an exageration.Whitaker had been fading since before ODLH fight, watch his fights against Wilfredo Rivera x2, Diosbelys Hurtado, he didn't look good in any of these fights and most people thought Whitaker was a shot fighter. Whitaker could not mount a good offensive attack on ODLH like the old Whitaker could, he was good on defense against ODLH but like i just said his offense was nothing like the old Whitaker. Its not exaggerated comment its the truth that Whitaker's skills were gradually declining he was dropped a combined 3 times in his last 3 fights prior to fighting ODLH fight. And if ODLH would of fought prime Whitaker i think Whitaker would of clearly out pointed ODLH by at least 4 rounds.Although I agree with your argument that the Whitaker fight should not be an indicator that DLH would beat Leonard, especially when it was such a close fight and I feel Leonard was a better Welterweight than Whitaker was. I really don't see the need to make exagerated comments to proove your point.I agree with Sweetpea no way on earth would ODLH beat a prime SRL. And using an old Whitaker to support an argument that ODLH could beat Leonard is not a good argument at all. First off Whitaker was way past his prime and had been fading since the Wilfredo Rivera fights, and even though it was an old shot Whitaker he still made ODLH look foolish all night and landed many jabs on ODLH. And IMO the fight was a draw, ODLH never faced anyone who had such good movement and great hand speed at Welterweight like Leonard had. What about Mosley vs ODLH 1 ?? Mosley beat ODLH to the punch all night and out boxed him clearly and won by about 4 rounds and that was in ODLH prime. Don't you think SRL could do the same and beat ODLH to the punch while out boxing him on the outside ??I assumed this list was prime-vs.-prime. Oscar didn't fight a prime Pernell.HUGE FAN....Mick, I know you're a big Oscar fan, but do you really think Oscar would have a chance against Ray Leonard? I can't think of one thing that Oscar does as well as Leonard. Ray was bigger, faster, stronger, etc.
I think a strong argument can be made that Leonard is the 2nd best welter ever. I'm not even sure that Oscar is top 15.
I think Oscars talent expands thru the divisions he's been in with the exception of the Middleweight div.
Other then that I give him a damn! good chance against the best in every divisions he's fought in.
To say that he would beat SRL, IMO is nothing out of this world or something that's unimaginable.
Pernells harder to hit then SRL but Oscar was able to land and beat Pernell.
So why not SRL, I can't tell you how the fight would go but I think Oscar could pull it off.
What elements of the sport do you think Oscar was better at than a prime Leonard at 147?
Whitaker was not WAY passed his prime. He may not have been at his best but he was not as far from it as you imply and he was certanly not shot.
But I agree, prime Whitaker would beat DLH and so would a prime Leonard.
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
Fair enough bro point taken CC.That last post ICE was a much better and more accurate description of the situation. The one before, especially the comments I highlighted, was an exageration.Whitaker had been fading since before ODLH fight, watch his fights against Wilfredo Rivera x2, Diosbelys Hurtado, he didn't look good in any of these fights and most people thought Whitaker was a shot fighter. Whitaker could not mount a good offensive attack on ODLH like the old Whitaker could, he was good on defense against ODLH but like i just said his offense was nothing like the old Whitaker. Its not exaggerated comment its the truth that Whitaker's skills were gradually declining he was dropped a combined 3 times in his last 3 fights prior to fighting ODLH fight. And if ODLH would of fought prime Whitaker i think Whitaker would of clearly out pointed ODLH by at least 4 rounds.Although I agree with your argument that the Whitaker fight should not be an indicator that DLH would beat Leonard, especially when it was such a close fight and I feel Leonard was a better Welterweight than Whitaker was. I really don't see the need to make exagerated comments to proove your point.I agree with Sweetpea no way on earth would ODLH beat a prime SRL. And using an old Whitaker to support an argument that ODLH could beat Leonard is not a good argument at all. First off Whitaker was way past his prime and had been fading since the Wilfredo Rivera fights, and even though it was an old shot Whitaker he still made ODLH look foolish all night and landed many jabs on ODLH. And IMO the fight was a draw, ODLH never faced anyone who had such good movement and great hand speed at Welterweight like Leonard had. What about Mosley vs ODLH 1 ?? Mosley beat ODLH to the punch all night and out boxed him clearly and won by about 4 rounds and that was in ODLH prime. Don't you think SRL could do the same and beat ODLH to the punch while out boxing him on the outside ??I assumed this list was prime-vs.-prime. Oscar didn't fight a prime Pernell.HUGE FAN....Mick, I know you're a big Oscar fan, but do you really think Oscar would have a chance against Ray Leonard? I can't think of one thing that Oscar does as well as Leonard. Ray was bigger, faster, stronger, etc.
I think a strong argument can be made that Leonard is the 2nd best welter ever. I'm not even sure that Oscar is top 15.
I think Oscars talent expands thru the divisions he's been in with the exception of the Middleweight div.
Other then that I give him a damn! good chance against the best in every divisions he's fought in.
To say that he would beat SRL, IMO is nothing out of this world or something that's unimaginable.
Pernells harder to hit then SRL but Oscar was able to land and beat Pernell.
So why not SRL, I can't tell you how the fight would go but I think Oscar could pull it off.
What elements of the sport do you think Oscar was better at than a prime Leonard at 147?
Whitaker was not WAY passed his prime. He may not have been at his best but he was not as far from it as you imply and he was certanly not shot.
But I agree, prime Whitaker would beat DLH and so would a prime Leonard.
Forum Greatest Of All Time
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
Floyd Mayweather jr. vs. Donald Curry- I think I'll go against the grain here and say Curry. I just have not seen enough from Floyd at this weight to say he'll beat any of the top all time welters.
Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Carlos Palomino- Robinson by late KO
Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Oscar De La Hoya- Great fight but Leonard would win
Emile Griffith vs. Henry Armstrong- Can't vote on a fighter I have not seen
Felix Trinidad vs. Kid Gavilan- Same as above though the fact that Gavilan wen't a total of 25 rounds against SRR is bad for Tito, still the Kid loss to some nobodies early in his career..
Thomas Hearns vs. Simon Brown- Hearns KO
Pipino Cuevas vs. Pernell Whitaker- Whitaker UD though it would be entertaining
Jose Angel Napoles vs. 'Barbados' Joe Walcott- Again, I have not seen Walcott so can't pick a winner. Joe seemed pretty tough though and I can see him beating "Mantequilla" similar to the way Monzon did.
I think guys like Hearns, Robbinson and even Trinidad had the power to beat anybody in any given fight. Robbinson and Hearns also had some great boxing abilities. What puts Robbinson on top is that to top it all off he had a granit chin.
Super Moderator
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
Floyd Mayweather jr. vs. Donald Curry- Curry UD Same reasons as Rookie
Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Carlos Palomino- SRR
Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Oscar De La Hoya- Leonard UD
Emile Griffith vs. Henry Armstrong- Griffith UD
Felix Trinidad vs. Kid Gavilan- Tito KO4
Thomas Hearns vs. Simon Brown- Hearns KO 8
Pipino Cuevas vs. Pernell Whitaker- Whitaker UD
Jose Angel Napoles vs. 'Barbados' Joe Walcott- Napoles? no reason
Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.
Banned
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
CC my friend, agreed on this one. Tito was brilliant at 147 (And 154), but with these unsuccessful comebacks in weight classes he does not belong in you have some shallow fans that have lost respect for him and think that anyone can come along and beat him, BULLSHIT, at 147 Tito was one of the greatest of all time and I don't see an OLD SCHOOL Kid Gavilan beating him (Specially when alot of these people never saw him fight)
Forum Greatest Of All Time
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
I am changing my view on Trinidad V Gavilan ( I know little on Gavilan except what i read in The Ring) Gavilan lost to many fights IMO and Tito would win. He was awesome at 147lb and you are correct in pointing this out . Trinidad V Gavilan = Tito KO 6
CC my friend, agreed on this one. Tito was brilliant at 147 (And 154), but with these unsuccessful comebacks in weight classes he does not belong in you have some shallow fans that have lost respect for him and think that anyone can come along and beat him, BULLSHIT, at 147 Tito was one of the greatest of all time and I don't see an OLD SCHOOL Kid Gavilan beating him (Specially when alot of these people never saw him fight)
Circa 1985
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
Well I can say I voted for Gavilan because I've seen about 23 of his fights.I am changing my view on Trinidad V Gavilan ( I know little on Gavilan except what i read in The Ring) Gavilan lost to many fights IMO and Tito would win. He was awesome at 147lb and you are correct in pointing this out . Trinidad V Gavilan = Tito KO 6CC my friend, agreed on this one. Tito was brilliant at 147 (And 154), but with these unsuccessful comebacks in weight classes he does not belong in you have some shallow fans that have lost respect for him and think that anyone can come along and beat him, BULLSHIT, at 147 Tito was one of the greatest of all time and I don't see an OLD SCHOOL Kid Gavilan beating him (Specially when alot of these people never saw him fight)
I really hate to burst your guys buble but Gavilan fought 143 time he lost 30 fights and NOT 1 SINGLE fight came by way of KO/TKO.
The man was never stopped in a fight he fought ALL TIME great fighters like Ike Williams (3times), SRR (2times), Beau Jack, Billy Graham (4times), Carmen Basilio, Carl Olson. Gavilan fought the best opposition available other fighters like Tony DeMarco, Chico Vejar, Gene Hairston, Bobby Dykes, Gil Turner, Johnny Bratton. I mean if you go thru the rankings these fighters were at the top of the rankings.
Not one of them was able to stop him so I gotta say I'm really skeptic about Tito being able to stop him. In his fights with SRR, in the 1st fight SRR catches Gavilan flush with some good shots but Gavilan shook them off and fought on. Gavilan moved well and had an awkward style in his prime he was an animal. Anythings possible here in these potential matchups I mean I have Oscar beating SRL so that's that.
Just thought I'd point out The Cuban Hawk was not stopped in a fight, in a career that spaned from 1943 to 1958. 2 fighters only ever droped Gavilan that was Ike & Carmen no one else.
Forum Greatest Of All Time
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
I say SRL would win proably win about 10 of the 12 rounds and if he fought 15 rounds i think he stop Oscar. My reasoning going off that Oscar lost most of his big fights and tired at the end of some if he could not beat Mosley he not beat Leonard would not be close.
Forum Greatest Of All Time
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
Trust you Mick to come up with a great review of Gavilan's career. This match up is really difficult and one that has points for both fighters. Tito had great power at 147lb and must be rated as one of the hardest punching Welters ever but Gavilan's career was impressive. I've done some more research and he lost to much bigger guys a number of times. It took Middleweights and Light Heavys to beat him...DRAWWell I can say I voted for Gavilan because I've seen about 23 of his fights.I am changing my view on Trinidad V Gavilan ( I know little on Gavilan except what i read in The Ring) Gavilan lost to many fights IMO and Tito would win. He was awesome at 147lb and you are correct in pointing this out . Trinidad V Gavilan = Tito KO 6CC my friend, agreed on this one. Tito was brilliant at 147 (And 154), but with these unsuccessful comebacks in weight classes he does not belong in you have some shallow fans that have lost respect for him and think that anyone can come along and beat him, BULLSHIT, at 147 Tito was one of the greatest of all time and I don't see an OLD SCHOOL Kid Gavilan beating him (Specially when alot of these people never saw him fight)
I really hate to burst your guys buble but Gavilan fought 143 time he lost 30 fights and NOT 1 SINGLE fight came by way of KO/TKO.
The man was never stopped in a fight he fought ALL TIME great fighters like Ike Williams (3times), SRR (2times), Beau Jack, Billy Graham (4times), Carmen Basilio, Carl Olson. Gavilan fought the best opposition available other fighters like Tony DeMarco, Chico Vejar, Gene Hairston, Bobby Dykes, Gil Turner, Johnny Bratton. I mean if you go thru the rankings these fighters were at the top of the rankings.
Not one of them was able to stop him so I gotta say I'm really skeptic about Tito being able to stop him. In his fights with SRR, in the 1st fight SRR catches Gavilan flush with some good shots but Gavilan shook them off and fought on. Gavilan moved well and had an awkward style in his prime he was an animal. Anythings possible here in these potential matchups I mean I have Oscar beating SRL so that's that.
Just thought I'd point out The Cuban Hawk was not stopped in a fight, in a career that spaned from 1943 to 1958. 2 fighters only ever droped Gavilan that was Ike & Carmen no one else.
Forum Greatest Of All Time
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
CC Mick for the input. I have not seen Gavilan fight so I did not vote on that one even though like most of you know I am a HUGE Tito fan. I did look at his reccord on boxrec and noticed some big names and the fact that he had never been stopped really impressed me. But then again, Tito did not have to stop you to beat you, he was a damn good fighter in his day and is undefeated as a welter which is more than I can say for most of the guys on this list. It is really a tough match up. But if you have DLH over Leonard than there is nothing wrong with me saying Tito over Gavilan by Split Decision.Well I can say I voted for Gavilan because I've seen about 23 of his fights.I am changing my view on Trinidad V Gavilan ( I know little on Gavilan except what i read in The Ring) Gavilan lost to many fights IMO and Tito would win. He was awesome at 147lb and you are correct in pointing this out . Trinidad V Gavilan = Tito KO 6CC my friend, agreed on this one. Tito was brilliant at 147 (And 154), but with these unsuccessful comebacks in weight classes he does not belong in you have some shallow fans that have lost respect for him and think that anyone can come along and beat him, BULLSHIT, at 147 Tito was one of the greatest of all time and I don't see an OLD SCHOOL Kid Gavilan beating him (Specially when alot of these people never saw him fight)
I really hate to burst your guys buble but Gavilan fought 143 time he lost 30 fights and NOT 1 SINGLE fight came by way of KO/TKO.
The man was never stopped in a fight he fought ALL TIME great fighters like Ike Williams (3times), SRR (2times), Beau Jack, Billy Graham (4times), Carmen Basilio, Carl Olson. Gavilan fought the best opposition available other fighters like Tony DeMarco, Chico Vejar, Gene Hairston, Bobby Dykes, Gil Turner, Johnny Bratton. I mean if you go thru the rankings these fighters were at the top of the rankings.
Not one of them was able to stop him so I gotta say I'm really skeptic about Tito being able to stop him. In his fights with SRR, in the 1st fight SRR catches Gavilan flush with some good shots but Gavilan shook them off and fought on. Gavilan moved well and had an awkward style in his prime he was an animal. Anythings possible here in these potential matchups I mean I have Oscar beating SRL so that's that.
Just thought I'd point out The Cuban Hawk was not stopped in a fight, in a career that spaned from 1943 to 1958. 2 fighters only ever droped Gavilan that was Ike & Carmen no one else.
Forum Greatest Of All Time
Array
Re: Saddoboxing's greatest welterweight of all-time, finalized list
Rookie, If you go to the upload area, Mick was kind enough to upload and old favourite of mine called the latin legends. Gavilan features extensively.
091
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks