P4P Best punchers All time

[Terry Nutkins]

Anybody who suggests that Duran's power increased as he moved through the divisions is deranged. Even at welterweight his power was severely diminished. Beyond that he stopped very few top level guys in the higher weights. In fact after Pipino and Moore in 83 his Ko's against meaningful opposition all but dried up.

The former lithe lightweight was replaced by a savy old lion who outsmarted younger and more powerful foes such as Barkley via decision. Even at his absolute peak when he unleashed a pugilistic masterclass against DeJesus in 78, it was once again remorseless, educated pressure rather than sheer force that settled the issue.

Duran was and never has been, at any weight, in true world class, a one punch knock out artist. As a lightweight he had very good power, but not devastating.

Duran is my favourite fighter who ever lived and quite possibly the greatest exponent ever of the noble art. But he does not fulfill the requisite criteria that the topic heading pertains to.

Without wishing to sound arrogant, but i inevitably will. Theres nobody on this forum, or any other forum for that matter who has a more intrinsic and intimate understanding of the career of Manos de piedra than myself. Thats not a boast, its just a fact.

Nigel Benn did not obliterate top world level opponents with single destructive shots. Even at middleweight he didn't, and at super middleweight he certainly did not. Once again i direct any dissenting voices to take a look at Benn's record, the empirical data is there for all to see.

Benn did not punch with anything remotely resembling the ferocity if g man or jackson. Once again look at the records, watch the footage, equate the quality of men faced with the level of destruction dishes d out and then form your conclusions. The Benn v Mcellen bout only serves to bolster my case, outcome aside, its obvious who possesses the heavier ammunition.

I enjoyed your postings ice cold and you've composed a very informed and constructive case that one cannot ignore. Its all subjective at the end of the day and thats the fun thing and ads to the quality of discourse. Apart from that maladroit cretin boozeboxer, i don't claim to know any more than the next man. Apart from Duran

As for the booze fellow, very poor postings my friend. No doubt its informed by the last time i overwhelmed you in the verbal orchard an lassoed you with my lexicon. Booze, allow me to illuminate your wafer like cranium with a thousand floodlights worth of veracity and sagacity that you yourself will never know. I will clear the dark and duty corridors of you corroding mind if you only submit and repent. Alternatively I could feed your filthy innards to feasting corinthians and display your corpulent severed hands as grotesque ornate ashtrays. Your boxing knowledge is woeful proletariat and your postings betray your putrid origins.

[boozeboxer]

Anybody who suggests that Duran's power increased as he moved through the divisions is deranged. Even at welterweight his power was severely diminished. Beyond that he stopped very few top level guys in the higher weights. In fact after Pipino and Moore in 83 his Ko's against meaningful opposition all but dried up.

The former lithe lightweight was replaced by a savy old lion who outsmarted younger and more powerful foes such as Barkley via decision. Even at his absolute peak when he unleashed a pugilistic masterclass against DeJesus in 78, it was once again remorseless, educated pressure rather than sheer force that settled the issue.

Duran was and never has been, at any weight, in true world class, a one punch knock out artist. As a lightweight he had very good power, but not devastating.

Duran is my favourite fighter who ever lived and quite possibly the greatest exponent ever of the noble art. But he does not fulfill the requisite criteria that the topic heading pertains to.

Without wishing to sound arrogant, but i inevitably will. Theres nobody on this forum, or any other forum for that matter who has a more intrinsic and intimate understanding of the career of Manos de piedra than myself. Thats not a boast, its just a fact.

Nigel Benn did not obliterate top world level opponents with single destructive shots. Even at middleweight he didn't, and at super middleweight he certainly did not. Once again i direct any dissenting voices to take a look at Benn's record, the empirical data is there for all to see.

Benn did not punch with anything remotely resembling the ferocity if g man or jackson. Once again look at the records, watch the footage, equate the quality of men faced with the level of destruction dishes d out and then form your conclusions. The Benn v Mcellen bout only serves to bolster my case, outcome aside, its obvious who possesses the heavier ammunition.

I enjoyed your postings ice cold and you've composed a very informed and constructive case that one cannot ignore. Its all subjective at the end of the day and thats the fun thing and ads to the quality of discourse. Apart from that maladroit cretin boozeboxer, i don't claim to know any more than the next man. Apart from Duran

As for the booze fellow, very poor postings my friend. No doubt its informed by the last time i overwhelmed you in the verbal orchard an lassoed you with my lexicon. Booze, allow me to illuminate your wafer like cranium with a thousand floodlights worth of veracity and sagacity that you yourself will never know. I will clear the dark and duty corridors of you corroding mind if you only submit and repent. Alternatively I could feed your filthy innards to feasting corinthians and display your corpulent severed hands as grotesque ornate ashtrays. Your boxing knowledge is woeful proletariat and your postings betray your putrid origins.

Removed

[Big_Deuce]

Can pavlik be considered on that list yet?
I mean with the destruction of miranda and JT, he definately has some pop to his punch

[boozeboxer]

Removed

Removed or not I would like everyone to note that Terry is in fact a windup artist, who repeats posts that he has copied from other boxing sites. The truth of the matter is that he has no opinion of his own, unless you count his pathetic rants and depracating tone towards other members.


The truth is that Terry Nutkins has some of the most illiterate posts ever posted (a fault which he must have failed to catch while copying and pasting from other sites and makes no effort to remedy despite using them numerous times). Not only are his posts ornamented with bogus ideas and fake references, but are full of literary words tossed about with the most reckless inaccuracy.

[Terry Nutkins]

Pasting and posting from other sites you say. What a feeble return of fire my friend. Unless you have any evidence of plagiarism then I suggest you refrain from such baseless diatribe.

Hitmandonny, I'm lost for words, almost. Every one is entitled to an opinion, and I welcome yours. But to suggest that Duran possessed little intellect as a fighter is grossly inaccurate. Duran was one of the smartest, savviest, intelligent pugilists who ever lived. His guile, ringcraft and innate ability to react to any given situation in the ring was second to none. I simply cannot comprehend how you could make such a remark.

All I can say is that your views regarding Duran's ring intellect go against those of any informed boxing fan.

With regards to power, I stated that Duran had very good power, but not devastating. You've obviously misinterpreted my postings. You ask how was Duran able to stand and trade with men from the middleweight division and win. Because he had above average punching power, well to a degree, its a prerequisite. As I stated with absolute clarity, Duran had very good punching power, lets take that to mean better than average.

But power was not the deciding factor in Durans victories over middleweights. Rather it was skill, intelligence, innate ringcraft, the experience acquired over two previous decades of combat. Duran rolled with punches like a buoy in rough seas, taking the sting out of the shots. He slipped punches on the inside, feinted and drew his opponents lead. He preserved his energy, counter punched more, relaxed on the inside and measured the distance to perfection. He displayed intellect beyond intellect, he was the possessor of attributes that can never be taught nor acquired through traditional means. And when his defences were breached, he had a cast iron chin that only betrayed him once in his entire career.

All the middleweights who Duran beat were physically stronger and hit harder than he did. If he relied on power then he would not have been able to do hat he did. The empirical data is my lance and shield, it validates my thinking. How many guys did Duran stop as a middleweight, it tells you everything you need to know. DEVASTATING punchers win by Ko not decisions. Duran was never a supermidldeweight, he fought Leonard once at the weight and years later against club fighters and bums like Pazienza. Duran never fought the top guys at SM as he was to old and to smart.

Booze, Unsubstantiated attacks are loathsome and indicative of your desperation. Ive never spoken with words other than my own and and I call you out to back up your nonsense. Whats more, trace any of my postings back to a source other than my own. If you cannot do so then politely refrain form such deplorable defamation of character.

Donny, Hope I didn't come across to strongly, but I simply cannot fathom your assessment of Roberto's ring smarts. The overwhelming consensus from boxing historians and pundits alike is that he has it in abundance. The greatest and most respected trainers in ring history, along with the greatest fighters and most erudite of boxing essayists are also in agreeance.

On that point, i think your on your own.

[boozeboxer]

Pasting and posting from other sites you say. What a feeble return of fire my friend. Unless you have any evidence of plagiarism then I suggest you refrain from such baseless diatribe.

Hitmandonny, I'm lost for words, almost. Every one is entitled to an opinion, and I welcome yours. But to suggest that Duran possessed little intellect as a fighter is grossly inaccurate. Duran was one of the smartest, savviest, intelligent pugilists who ever lived. His guile, ringcraft and innate ability to react to any given situation in the ring was second to none. I simply cannot comprehend how you could make such a remark.

All I can say is that your views regarding Duran's ring intellect go against those of any informed boxing fan.

With regards to power, I stated that Duran had very good power, but not devastating. You've obviously misinterpreted my postings. You ask how was Duran able to stand and trade with men from the middleweight division and win. Because he had above average punching power, well to a degree, its a prerequisite. As I stated with absolute clarity, Duran had very good punching power, lets take that to mean better than average.

But power was not the deciding factor in Durans victories over middleweights. Rather it was skill, intelligence, innate ringcraft, the experience acquired over two previous decades of combat. Duran rolled with punches like a buoy in rough seas, taking the sting out of the shots. He slipped punches on the inside, feinted and drew his opponents lead. He preserved his energy, counter punched more, relaxed on the inside and measured the distance to perfection. He displayed intellect beyond intellect, he was the possessor of attributes that can never be taught nor acquired through traditional means. And when his defences were breached, he had a cast iron chin that only betrayed him once in his entire career.

All the middleweights who Duran beat were physically stronger and hit harder than he did. If he relied on power then he would not have been able to do hat he did. The empirical data is my lance and shield, it validates my thinking. How many guys did Duran stop as a middleweight, it tells you everything you need to know. DEVASTATING punchers win by Ko not decisions. Duran was never a supermidldeweight, he fought Leonard once at the weight and years later against club fighters and bums like Pazienza. Duran never fought the top guys at SM as he was to old and to smart.

Booze, Unsubstantiated attacks are loathsome and indicative of your desperation. Ive never spoken with words other than my own and and I call you out to back up your nonsense. Whats more, trace any of my postings back to a source other than my own. If you cannot do so then politely refrain form such deplorable defamation of character.

Donny, Hope I didn't come across to strongly, but I simply cannot fathom your assessment of Roberto's ring smarts. The overwhelming consensus from boxing historians and pundits alike is that he has it in abundance. The greatest and most respected trainers in ring history, along with the greatest fighters and most erudite of boxing essayists are also in agreeance.

On that point, i think your on your own.

For now, until this weekend here is a post you aimed at Violent Demise, "
. I observe your infantile diatribe with a strange sorrow and I thank the genetic lottery that I will shadowbox on a plateau were the air is so rareified that you will never tred. Enjoy the misery of uninformed living."

What I would like to point out for now is that you suck at the English language. You do. It should come as no surpise since you repeatedly use the same bland attacking post for a variety of forums. Behind that screen-deep down-you are probably a failed writer or a poor teacher who should have all the tools but didn't live up to the hype. Lesson 1: Using words repeatedly like diatribe, cornucopian, etc. Whenever you make simple grammatical mistakes such as confusing 'your' and 'you're' makes you look much more foolish than anyone else here who claims no such 'grasp' as you have....

The Hatton site is down. That is why you are here I am sure. I do not have the time to look through your rubbish to find the root of your unoriginality. But I am not retracting my comment. I find your posts as and your knowledge of boxing, although described with imagery that many on this site wouldn't bother to put in posts, to be impractical and inaccurate.

Terry, I am not attempting to tell all the other members of the site that I am smarter than them (as you have been doing by implication). I know that there are loads of more educated posters that have spent lives at the gym......some have been to countless fights and met all my idols personally (Cutmemick). That is why I enjoy this place.

The real question I have to ask you is this: Why are you here? Certainly you never retract a statement. Never give another poster his due when he makes a valid point. If you know so fucking much why bother with coming to this site? Is it to illuminate us with your flowerly talk? Well maybe F. Scott Fitzgerald has a forum you would be better suited at.

[donnydarkoIRL]

.

Hitmandonny, I'm lost for words, almost. Every one is entitled to an opinion, and I welcome yours. But to suggest that Duran possessed little intellect as a fighter is grossly inaccurate. Duran was one of the smartest, savviest, intelligent pugilists who ever lived. His guile, ringcraft and innate ability to react to any given situation in the ring was second to none. I simply cannot comprehend how you could make such a remark.
Terry, If you re-read my wording, I never implied that Duran was a fighter without intellect, I did however, suggest that his major wins were triumphs of physicality rather than mentality. Ironically you backed this point later in your original post stating that Duran's "remorseless educted pressure" beat DeJesus. A fighter can be educated but that does not mean he fights with intellect.

All I can say is that your views regarding Duran's ring intellect go against those of any informed boxing fan.
With regards to power, I stated that Duran had very good power, but not devastating. You've obviously misinterpreted my postings. You ask how was Duran able to stand and trade with men from the middleweight division and win. Because he had above average punching power, well to a degree, its a prerequisite. As I stated with absolute clarity, Duran had very good punching power, lets take that to mean better than average.
So as you are replying io this section to my question in relation to Duran as a Middle and Super Middleweight, you are confirming that Duran had "above average power" fopr a Super Middleweight and Middleweight?"
Would this not imply he had quite extraordinary power for a lightweight or that he grew in power as he moved up?

But power was not the deciding factor in Durans victories over middleweights. Rather it was skill, intelligence, innate ringcraft, the experience acquired over two previous decades of combat. Duran rolled with punches like a buoy in rough seas, taking the sting out of the shots. He slipped punches on the inside, feinted and drew his opponents lead. He preserved his energy, counter punched more, relaxed on the inside and measured the distance to perfection. He displayed intellect beyond intellect, he was the possessor of attributes that can never be taught nor acquired through traditional means. And when his defences were breached, he had a cast iron chin that only betrayed him once in his entire career.
I agree, Durans is greatly underrated in terms of defensive ability. In one of my favourite Duran fights (versus Buchanan) Roberto was quite marvelous. He was an inspiration as, without taking a step back, he evaded all of Ke's tell8ng blows and landed a high percentage of his own hostile lashings.

[The Rookie Fan]

Well I'm gonna settle this argument right here.

First off, I said from the beginning that I was not so much interested in raw one punch powere but more on fighters who knew how to put their punches together to maximum effect and had that killer instinct to take a guy out once he was down.

Duran certanly fits that description.

So do guys like Ali even though they do not posses that one punch KO power. I'm talking about guys who knew what to do with those two hands they had. Guys who had that instinct to know when to through what punch.

I am not impressid with one punch power. It takes the skill away from the game. I like guys who work on their entire offensive arsenal and on putting it all together.

The title is P4P best PUNCHERS not P4P hardest hitters.

[donnydarkoIRL]

In that case Rookie, you're probably a fan of:
Pavlik
McClellan
Leonard
Duran
Chavez
Jones Jr
?

[Spicoli]

Well I'm gonna settle this argument right here.

First off, I said from the beginning that I was not so much interested in raw one punch powere but more on fighters who knew how to put their punches together to maximum effect and had that killer instinct to take a guy out once he was down.

Duran certanly fits that description.

So do guys like Ali even though they do not posses that one punch KO power. I'm talking about guys who knew what to do with those two hands they had. Guys who had that instinct to know when to through what punch.

I am not impressid with one punch power. It takes the skill away from the game. I like guys who work on their entire offensive arsenal and on putting it all together.

The title is P4P best PUNCHERS not P4P hardest hitters.

Thats a breath of freash air Rookie.Alot Is made out of stretching guys with one shot but In reality Its the Volume mid range punchers that can seemingly "TKO" a guy multiple times in a fight.That may sound odd but If you go through 10 rounds getting clipped and taking 8 counts as opposed to a sudden quick conclusion inside of 1 or 2 rounds?? Chavez as stated before comes to mind right first,consimate versatile puncher who broke minds as well as bodies........Hopkins also Imo Hit o' rep to ya Rookiefan.

[Big_Deuce]

Terry Nutkins is a fwockin troll.
"look at me, i can use a bunch of big words i bought for 50 cents and place them in sentences where they don't belong" im not from the U.K but i'll take a page from my U.K brothers lingo and call you a fwockin twat...
Chode burger

[donnydarkoIRL]

Terry really does create a unique atmosphere around Saddo's.

[donnydarkoIRL]

Posted by Terry Nutkins:
Anybody who suggests that Duran's power increased as he moved through the divisions is deranged. Even at welterweight his power was severely diminished. Beyond that he stopped very few top level guys in the higher weights. In fact after Pipino and Moore in 83 his Ko's against meaningful opposition all but dried up.
Terry you must acknowledge that for a natural lightweight to be able to stand and trade (and indeed win) with men from the Middleweight and Supermiddleweight, illustrates that the man had above average punching power?
The former lithe lightweight was replaced by a savy old lion who outsmarted younger and more powerful foes such as Barkley via decision. Even at his absolute peak when he unleashed a pugilistic masterclass against DeJesus in 78, it was once again remorseless, educated pressure rather than sheer force that settled the issue.
Terry, although I am the first to defend Duran when his skills are questioned, I never felt he was a smart fighter. He had defensive skills surely and indeed his offensive arsenal was quite exemplary, but in his fights he used little intellect. As you said he used pressure, force and aggression to wear down opponents. Again I ask you, could a man who was naturally a lightweight grind down fighters such as Barkley if he was only possessed of a Lightweights power?
Duran was and never has been, at any weight, in true world class, a one punch knock out artist. As a lightweight he had very good power, but not devastating.
From that Logic one might argue that Foreman, Tyson and Chavez were not true knockout artists as their most famed victories came from a number of punches landing in succession or following a previous knockdown.

Duran is my favourite fighter who ever lived and quite possibly the greatest exponent ever of the noble art. But he does not fulfill the requisite criteria that the topic heading pertains to.
Without wishing to sound arrogant, but i inevitably will. Theres nobody on this forum, or any other forum for that matter who has a more intrinsic and intimate understanding of the career of Manos de piedra than myself. Thats not a boast, its just a fact.
Terry, I'm not accusing you of arrogance, however I do take issue with the above. I feel you cannot posibly make that claim whilst you post so infrrequently on this website. Had you spent more time in conversation with the posters here you would have learned of the numerous Duarn fanatics that reside her. In addition I personally know of two posters here who have trained and worked with Duran, so your statement is slightly flawed already.
I admire the love you so obviously have of this fighter, but bear in mind nobody is infalliable, nor is anyone all-knowing.

Nigel Benn did not obliterate top world level opponents with single destructive shots. Even at middleweight he didn't, and at super middleweight he certainly did not. Once again i direct any dissenting voices to take a look at Benn's record, the empirical data is there for all to see.
This is related to my earlier answer, to say this casts doubt upon the knockout ability of fighters such as Tyson, Chavez and Foreman.