Joe Louis: America's Hero Betrayed

[The Shadow]

I'd like to check the film out. I know that Louis really got the royal screwing from the Government. Unfortunately, public outrage and mindful politicians - LOL - never came to
his aid; in my estimation, Louis' contributions to the sport and country had no reciprocity in terms with being treated like the great man that he was; it's a very unfortunate and distressing story.

[El Kabong]

"He came under fire in 1968 for opposing a black American boycott of the Olympics, and for a time was derided as an "Uncle Tom" and a toady to white people. The charges stung Owens. He attempted to defend himself in a 1970 biography, Blackthink, but two years later he became more militant and published another book, I Have Changed."

- Jesse Owens: Biography and Much More from Answers.com


I don't make that stuff up or just throw it around without consideration. It's a FACT, he opposed a boycott of the '68 games and the Black Power spectacle at the games and was called names for it.

I do TRY to get my facts correct and Rush Limbaugh has fuck all to do with this

[Trainer Monkey]

"He came under fire in 1968 for opposing a black American boycott of the Olympics, and for a time was derided as an "Uncle Tom" and a toady to white people. The charges stung Owens. He attempted to defend himself in a 1970 biography, Blackthink, but two years later he became more militant and published another book, I Have Changed."

- Jesse Owens: Biography and Much More from Answers.com


I don't make that stuff up or just throw it around without consideration. It's a FACT, he opposed a boycott of the '68 games and the Black Power spectacle at the games and was called names for it.

I do TRY to get my facts correct and Rush Limbaugh has fuck all to do with this

So it was the two black Olympians who were on the pedestal that were also boycotting the Olympics at that particular Olympics
You got your names wrong,because it was the black power salute that caused all the fuss to this day
And it wasnt even supposed to be a black power salute

[El Kabong]

No I didn't get my facts wrong, they might have been misunderstood though.

#1 The Black Athletes were going to boycott the 1968 Summer Olympics due to the issues of segregation and Jim Crow Laws.

- Jesse Owens opposed this and didn't see how it would solve anything. That of course rubbed certain eliments of the Civil Rights Movement the wrong way...George Foreman caught the same flack for waving around American flags when he won a gold medal

#2 Tommie Smith (Gold) and John Carlos (Bronze) held up their fists in protest to the National Anthem of the United States of America

- Jesse Owens talked with them, tried to get them to appologize. He failed, they were kicked off the team for what they had done and in a meeting with them and there he was called an Uncle Tom and a toady for "the white man"


This has been American History 101 with your professor Lyle, thank you and goodnight

[Kev]

Well Joe Luis wasn't perfect of course. He turned his back on Jack Johnson when he offered to help him for the first Schmeling fight.

And I'm not sure why not paying taxes makes someone a hero in America.

In the UK one of our greatest living jockey's Lester Piggot didn't pay his taxes and we threw his ass in jail and stripped him of his OBE

And talking about Luis being forced to fight beyond his prime, Piggot came back to race after prison and finally retired at 60!

[match]

Match,Thats just short bus. Yeh,Should have been set right at the moment but He was layed to rest where he deserved to be.

Short bus my @ss, posthumous generocity, (let alone coming just days after someone's death who had been sh!t on the entire last half of his life), is self serving.

[Trainer Monkey]

No I didn't get my facts wrong, they might have been misunderstood though.

#1 The Black Athletes were going to boycott the 1968 Summer Olympics due to the issues of segregation and Jim Crow Laws.

- Jesse Owens opposed this and didn't see how it would solve anything. That of course rubbed certain eliments of the Civil Rights Movement the wrong way...George Foreman caught the same flack for waving around American flags when he won a gold medal

#2 Tommie Smith (Gold) and John Carlos (Bronze) held up their fists in protest to the National Anthem of the United States of America

- Jesse Owens talked with them, tried to get them to appologize. He failed, they were kicked off the team for what they had done and in a meeting with them and there he was called an Uncle Tom and a toady for "the white man"


This has been American History 101 with your professor Lyle, thank you and goodnight

Penning a letter a few weeks prior to the games, Smith wrote to legendary track and field star Jesse Owens. At the 1936 Berlin, Owens won four gold models and angered Adolf Hitler who had planned to show the world the racial superiority of his Aryan super athletes.

“I wrote Jesse just before his death to let him know how much I admired him and to let him know that I thought he was the greatest athlete of all time not just for winning but because he never made the big dogs in the Olympic committee - who were all Jim Crow –put him down as a black man.”
Do you check anything?

[El Kabong]

Penning a letter a few weeks prior to the games, Smith wrote to legendary track and field star Jesse Owens. At the 1936 Berlin, Owens won four gold models and angered Adolf Hitler who had planned to show the world the racial superiority of his Aryan super athletes.

“I wrote Jesse just before his death to let him know how much I admired him and to let him know that I thought he was the greatest athlete of all time not just for winning but because he never made the big dogs in the Olympic committee - who were all Jim Crow –put him down as a black man.”
Do you check anything?

That doesn't disprove anything I said.


Yeah sure guys like Ali and Smith appologized later on. But like any young kid they ran off at the mouth against some really iconic figures and it shouldn't have happened. That's tough for me to respect...but yes later they corrected themselves.

Joe Louis turned down Jack Johnson's help because he couldn't be champion if he had ANYTHING to do with Johnson. Johnson was a great champion and flaunted his race and it rubbed people the wrong way and after he was beaten it set black fighters back....you think Sam Langford just chose never to get a title shot

I do understand the level of frustration there probably was between the generations of Louis and Ali but that is no reason to call out someone for being an Uncle Tom.

Ali was a talkative guy and I am sure like anyone else he regrets saying certain things....I am by no means perfect but I don't have cameras in my face either. Ali had a platform to speak from and sometimes he said the wrong things....he corrected himself in later years though.

[CutMeMick]

And I'm not sure why not paying taxes makes someone a hero in America.

Bilbs, it's not because he didn't pay his taxes that made him a hero.

The hero part is one thing. The not paying his taxes are another thing....

The issue with him and the taxes was that Joe during his services in the army was also using his own money for expenses with other members of the force. He did exibition bouts for FREE! from station to stations all around. Thousands of dollars from his own pocket.

Years later the IRS came after him for some money. They continued to be after his ass for years to come.

[Spicoli]

Short bus my @ss, posthumous generocity, (let alone coming just days after someone's death who had been sh!t on the entire last half of his life), is self serving.

I think were agreeing here in the end.I could give two S!!!'s about reagan and /or his motives.The bottom line is A man and great as well as his family were given back a bit of respect that was lacking for way to long.Yeh,too late and a shame but well overdue non the less.

[The Boxer]

I normaly don't agree with lyle to much he's right on this one.

anybody who like the joe louis documentry should check out the Jack Jonhson documentry. i think somebody has it on the file sharing board.

[CutMeMick]

Where to start.....

I've seen a handful of documentarys. Emile Griffith, Jack Johnson, Wilfredo Gomez, SRR, George Foreman, Jack Dempsey, Robert Duran, Larry Holmes, ODLH, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Muhammad Ali etc. etc. etc.

But last nights doc. just hit a spot with me man... Emotions filled my game room as I sat there watching it. I was happy then I was sad and knodding my head my throat dried up and I had a lump for a better part of the show

I gotta say I've been discuted worst in other doc. like in the Resto-Collins Jr. doc. but last nights doc. just did it man... Seeing all those images of Joe as an elderly man and learning soooo much about what he went thru in the after effects drugs, alcohol, paranoiah.

All because the US used him as the poster boy and squeezed the life out of him for all it was worth. Some of those promotional videos and stuff they showed on Joe was crazy to see cause Joe looked like Ivan Drago as he talked. Very robotic, I mean Joe was given scripts and he was told what to say, how to sit, how to behave, what he can and can't do.
His time, money, thoughts, life was all used up he served his country and did what he could never asked for anything other then to treat his black people equally. I've always thought Jackie Robinson was the one black man who kicked the door down. After last night I learned that in reality it was Joe who did it 1st.

Because of him blacks where 1st allowed to play in a PGA golf invitantional so there would be no Tiger Woods if not for Joe. I did not know that I learned so much last night it's insane. The whole afternoon today I've been talking to myself about some of things I picked up from the doc.

I had read several things but wasn't too sure if they were true or not after last night a lot of things were confirmed to. Braddock getting a cut from Joe earnings for the rest of his career.

One thing that seems to happen with most of these boxers docs. I've seen is alcohol, women, drugs and speding issues always seem to be the downfall. Joe was no different and made lots of mistakes...

All in all it was a great documentary and I strongly recommend it to everyone....

[match]

I think were agreeing here in the end.I could give two S!!!'s about reagan and /or his motives.The bottom line is A man and great as well as his family were given back a bit of respect that was lacking for way to long.Yeh,too late and a shame but well overdue non the less.

I hear ya bro, that's what I'm saying too.

[CutMeMick]

IMO the hardest thing to hear/see in the doc. was the bit where Joe was inivited to be a 'special' referee for a wrestling match and the promoter came into the dressing room minutes before the event and told Joe that the IRS raided the box office and took his pay straight from there.

That shit! right hit a spot with me.... The man was just trying to live and pay the money then they went ahead and took his dignity by doing shit like that.

One thing that will forever live with me from the doc. is the following.

When asked by a friend why was he wrestling and doing side jobs he answered.

"It beats stealing" - Joe Louis
Fucken brilliant...

[WelshDevilRob]

I normaly don't agree with lyle to much he's right on this one.

anybody who like the joe louis documentry should check out the Jack Jonhson documentry. i think somebody has it on the file sharing board.

Great call.
Currenly halfway throught the Jack Johnson documentary. Fascinating insight.