Witter calling Hatton's bluff

[ICB]

I see where both you and VD are coming from but your way over the top....

First off, watch Danny's video. It is an excellent analysis of the fight. How the fuck can you hit somebody when they duck down below your waist whenever you throw? Not saying Hatton is a saint because he isn't, but the video pretty much highlights the fact that the Floyd Mayweather method of avoiding punches is illegal. Kudos to him for getting away with it and even without that method he'd have most likely won.

To say Castillo was shot is a bit harsh considering he handled Ngoudjo a hell of a lot better than Paulie did. I know your probably going to say styles make fights, but the fact is he still looked a hell of a lot better than Paulie did. I know Castillo had a fight before that with Reyes and he didn't look great but then again he ko'd Chico in the fight before. Yes there was the weight issue but that punch would probably have done it no matter what.

To say Kosta was shot is just ignorant. How the fuck can the p4p #2 fighter coming off a 3rd round destruction of Sharmba Mitchell be considered shot? How does a shot fighter become the number 2 ranked fighter in the world at any weight? Is your boxing knowledge so great that you've decided to over-rule the vast majority of boxing experts all over the world by declaring his shotness?

And you will probably find that most people on here based their predictions on a 'Collazo, who the fuck is he? Hatton will win' mentality. I certainly didn't think it would be an easy fight and neither did Billy Graham seen as tho he tried to talk Hatton out of it.

I can see what you and VD are getting at by saying his best 2 wins have been against older fighters but you can't just dismiss old as being shot because they are 2 completely different things.

Im not saying Mayweather was a saint in the fight, but what makes me laugh is that all these *Hatton fans* were saying Cortez was one of the best refs for Hatton. But now Hatton got outclassed its *suddenly* different. Hatton was also doing his fair share of rabbit punching and illegal blows if i had the amount of time Danny had on his hands, then i could do a video showing all of Hatton's illegal tactics which were just as bad.

Why is it harsh ?? most people on this site were saying Castillo was shot. Your not going to tell me that he didn't like a shot fighter against Herman Ngoudjo are you ?? plus Castillo's best weight was at Lightweight, so i would consider that a shot fighter.

What has Tszyu's P4P ranking got to do with anything ?? first off he was P4P number 3 not 2. and second just because he was ranked high in P4P rankings doesn't mean he wasn't shot. Pernell Whitaker was ranked P4P number 1 when he was struggling with the likes of Diosbelys Hurtado and Wilfredo Rivera and i considered Whitaker shot at that time and he was P4P number 1, so it doesn't matter where you are ranked in the P4P Ono. Its just common sense that when your 35 years old, and you have only fought like 3 times in about 4 years, you will no way be able to perform at your best nowhere it. 35 years old is old in boxing and top that off with all the inactivity.

Well of course thats what people thought Ono, it was supposed to be a easy title for Hatton to make a good start at Welterweight, no one had heard of Collazo im glad you agree with that.

[donnydarkoIRL]

I in particualr felt Cortez would have suited Hatton, but I know feel Cortez was unjust.

Are you saying that I'm wrong Ice?

[ono]

Im not saying Mayweather was a saint in the fight, but what makes me laugh is that all these *Hatton fans* were saying Cortez was one of the best refs for Hatton. But now Hatton got outclassed its *suddenly* different. Hatton was also doing his fair share of rabbit punching and illegal blows if i had the amount of time Danny had on his hands, then i could do a video showing all of Hatton's illegal tactics which were just as bad.

Why is it harsh ?? most people on this site were saying Castillo was shot. Your not going to tell me that he didn't like a shot fighter against Herman Ngoudjo are you ?? plus Castillo's best weight was at Lightweight, so i would consider that a shot fighter.

What has Tszyu's P4P ranking got to do with anything ?? first off he was P4P number 3 not 2. and second just because he was ranked high in P4P rankings doesn't mean he wasn't shot. Pernell Whitaker was ranked P4P number 1 when he was struggling with the likes of Diosbelys Hurtado and Wilfredo Rivera and i considered Whitaker shot at that time and he was P4P number 1, so it doesn't matter where you are ranked in the P4P Ono. Its just common sense that when your 35 years old, and you have only fought like 3 times in about 4 years, you will no way be able to perform at your best nowhere it. 35 years old is old in boxing and top that off with all the inactivity.

Well of course thats what people thought Ono, it was supposed to be a easy title for Hatton to make a good start at Welterweight, no one had heard of Collazo im glad you agree with that.

Would you care to elaborate on that? Still don't see how one bad performance against very tough opposition makes you a shot fighter. Bernard Hopkins best weight is middleweight and he's over 35. If calzaghe beats him at super middle will B-Hop be considered shot? I'm just not following your reasoning. Any fighter regardless of age can struggle against tough opposition on any given night. Wasn't Castillo fighting at 140 because he could no longer make lightweight? Therefore you'd expect him to be more comfortable at 140 then he would have been at 135.

I still disagree with you believeing Tsyzu was shot. At no time in the fight did he look shot. He certainly didn't look shot 7 months earlier against Mitchell and regardless of inactivity, that's what we have to judge him on.

ODLH was 34 when he fought Mayweather and he had been inactive for around a year. So was he shot? If so, how is it the p4p number 1 fighter on the planet only managed a split decision? The reasoning makes no sense.

And while i agree Collazo was an unknown, he wasn't picked as an easy opponent for Hatton. He was the only opponent left for the May 13th date that Hatton had with HBO.

[ICB]

Would you care to elaborate on that? Still don't see how one bad performance against very tough opposition makes you a shot fighter. Bernard Hopkins best weight is middleweight and he's over 35. If calzaghe beats him at super middle will B-Hop be considered shot? I'm just not following your reasoning. Any fighter regardless of age can struggle against tough opposition on any given night. Wasn't Castillo fighting at 140 because he could no longer make lightweight? Therefore you'd expect him to be more comfortable at 140 then he would have been at 135.

I still disagree with you believeing Tsyzu was shot. At no time in the fight did he look shot. He certainly didn't look shot 7 months earlier against Mitchell and regardless of inactivity, that's what we have to judge him on.

ODLH was 34 when he fought Mayweather and he had been inactive for around a year. So was he shot? If so, how is it the p4p number 1 fighter on the planet only managed a split decision? The reasoning makes no sense.

And while i agree Collazo was an unknown, he wasn't picked as an easy opponent for Hatton. He was the only opponent left for the May 13th date that Hatton had with HBO.

Sorry but your first comment makes no real sense to me. just because Hopkins is still fighting at a high level while he is in 40's, doesn't compare with Kostya Tszyu. Because every human being is different just because one boxer can fight well at an old age doesn't mean another boxer can. Take Bowe for example he was a shot fighter at only 28. The fact is Tszyu was old in boxing standards, and plus with all the inactivity that just makes it even worse.

Castillo had spent most of his career at Lightweight, clearly when he fought Herman he wasn't comfortable at that weight or he was shot its one of the two take your pick.

Well everyone says Sharmba Mitchell was a shot fighter when he fought Mayweather, and Mitchell fought Mayweather not long his 2nd bout with Tszyu. So if we are using that logic then Mitchell was indeed a shot fighter when he fought Tszyu correct ?? so beating a shot Sharmba Mitchell doesn't really mean much does it ?? plus Mitchell was never that good in the first place. Yes he had some skills and was a decent champion but thats about it. And plus Kostya Tszyu had already beat Mitchell before so what did it really prove beating Mitchell again ?? I have different opinion on the matter to you so its pointless keep discussing Tszyu situation. Hatton beat a great fighter and it was one of Hatton's best performance's, IMO Tszyu was past his best but you believe different so i'll leave it at that.

ODLH had some of his best performances at Light Middleweight, his loss to Hopkins and his controversial decision against Sturm were all at Middleweight where he had flab around midsection. He comeback and destroyed Mayorga in impressive fashion, in fact ODLH's only loss at Light Middleweight at that time was to Shane Mosley in whicn most people thought ODLH won. And lets not forget on fight night ODLH was almost 1 stone heavier than Mayweather, and Mayweather was the one moving up to a weight class he had never fought at before so you cannot compare that to Hattpn vs Tszyu, ODLH was past his best but he wasn't as shot as Tszyu was. In fact the ODLH who fought Mayweather was the best ODLH i had seen in quite awhile. And come off it Ono don't tell me you honestly believe Mayweather only beat ODLH by SD ?? most people see Mayweather clearly winning the fight 8-4, 7-5 or 7-4-1. The punchstats were big in Mayweather's favor and he just out boxed ODLH in the end it wasn't that close and if you honestly believe it was then you need to rewatch the fight because it wasn't close.

Collazo was an unknown and was the weakest belt holder at Welterweight if i remember rightly ?? it was supposed to be an easy belt for Hatton to pick up to make his claim at Welterweight, but it didn't work out that way as we all know.

[ross]

Well everyone says Sharmba Mitchell was a shot fighter when he fought Mayweather, and Mitchell fought Mayweather not long his 2nd bout with Tszyu. So if we are using that logic then Mitchell was indeed a shot fighter when he fought Tszyu correct ??

Tszyu made Mitchell shot a round quicker than Floyd could at the higher weight

[albsur2006]

It's extremely funny to me how the fans of Ricky Hatton, one of the dirtiest fighters in the world, are crying and whining about what Floyd did in the fight. Floyd got away with some questionable stuff but every fighter gets the benefit of the doubt at one point. Lord knows, Hatton has. Hatton talked almost as big a game as Floyd Mayweather going into the fight, saying Floyd wasn't a big puncher, a pussy, and would run all night. Well Floyd roughed his ass up and then knocked him the fuck out. Why can't you Hatton fans and Ricky Hatton himself for that matter just deal with it and move on? You can cry for EVEN MORE months about Floyd's illegal tactics, whatever, Floyd didn't knock Hatton out with a forearm or by ducking down. Hatton was rushing Floyd and he just got caught clean on the chin. Stop acting like Hatton is even on Floyd's level anymore. I know you'd still like to believe that but he's not. Let's face it, EVEN Zab "I can't fight a full 12 rounds" Judah lasted 12 rounds with Floyd. Hatton needs to stop binge drinking and eating and get his life and career back on path and stay dedicated to the sport year-round. Then he needs to go face the guy who's calling him out, Junior Witter, before Hatton becomes the British version of Antonio Tarver. A loud mouth with delusions of grandeur whose only claim to fame came from one shocking win over an aging, past his prime star (Tszyu).

[ono]

It's extremely funny to me how the fans of Ricky Hatton, one of the dirtiest fighters in the world, are crying and whining about what Floyd did in the fight. Floyd got away with some questionable stuff but every fighter gets the benefit of the doubt at one point. Lord knows, Hatton has. Hatton talked almost as big a game as Floyd Mayweather going into the fight, saying Floyd wasn't a big puncher, a pussy, and would run all night. Well Floyd roughed his ass up and then knocked him the fuck out. Why can't you Hatton fans and Ricky Hatton himself for that matter just deal with it and move on? You can cry for EVEN MORE months about Floyd's illegal tactics, whatever, Floyd didn't knock Hatton out with a forearm or by ducking down. Hatton was rushing Floyd and he just got caught clean on the chin. Stop acting like Hatton is even on Floyd's level anymore. I know you'd still like to believe that but he's not. Let's face it, EVEN Zab "I can't fight a full 12 rounds" Judah lasted 12 rounds with Floyd. Hatton needs to stop binge drinking and eating and get his life and career back on path and stay dedicated to the sport year-round. Then he needs to go face the guy who's calling him out, Junior Witter, before Hatton becomes the British version of Antonio Tarver. A loud mouth with delusions of grandeur whose only claim to fame came from one shocking win over an aging, past his prime star (Tszyu).

I don't think there is any chance of him turning into Antonio Tarver,

I pretty much thought Hatton had moved on. I don't actually recall him moaning about being ruffed up anyway. He said it happened, but he would have done the same. Thats analysing, not moaning. There's a difference.

[eagle]

What I dont get is that Hattons Fans moan and whine about how he got a raw deal with the ref in the fight against PBF, yet the biggest win of his career (kostya) was one of the most biased refereeing jobs in history. Hatton was allowed to hug, cuddle, wrestle, low blow as much as he liked and not a word was said by the ref.

My point is when the ref is on Hattons side its ok, but as soon as a few things dont go his way the opposing fighter is a cheat and the ref should be made to retire.

[ono]

Sorry but your first comment makes no real sense to me. just because Hopkins is still fighting at a high level while he is in 40's, doesn't compare with Kostya Tszyu. Because every human being is different just because one boxer can fight well at an old age doesn't mean another boxer can. Take Bowe for example he was a shot fighter at only 28. The fact is Tszyu was old in boxing standards, and plus with all the inactivity that just makes it even worse.

Castillo had spent most of his career at Lightweight, clearly when he fought Herman he wasn't comfortable at that weight or he was shot its one of the two take your pick.

Well everyone says Sharmba Mitchell was a shot fighter when he fought Mayweather, and Mitchell fought Mayweather not long his 2nd bout with Tszyu. So if we are using that logic then Mitchell was indeed a shot fighter when he fought Tszyu correct ?? so beating a shot Sharmba Mitchell doesn't really mean much does it ?? plus Mitchell was never that good in the first place. Yes he had some skills and was a decent champion but thats about it. And plus Kostya Tszyu had already beat Mitchell before so what did it really prove beating Mitchell again ?? I have different opinion on the matter to you so its pointless keep discussing Tszyu situation. Hatton beat a great fighter and it was one of Hatton's best performance's, IMO Tszyu was past his best but you believe different so i'll leave it at that.

ODLH had some of his best performances at Light Middleweight, his loss to Hopkins and his controversial decision against Sturm were all at Middleweight where he had flab around midsection. He comeback and destroyed Mayorga in impressive fashion, in fact ODLH's only loss at Light Middleweight at that time was to Shane Mosley in whicn most people thought ODLH won. And lets not forget on fight night ODLH was almost 1 stone heavier than Mayweather, and Mayweather was the one moving up to a weight class he had never fought at before so you cannot compare that to Hattpn vs Tszyu, ODLH was past his best but he wasn't as shot as Tszyu was. In fact the ODLH who fought Mayweather was the best ODLH i had seen in quite awhile. And come off it Ono don't tell me you honestly believe Mayweather only beat ODLH by SD ?? most people see Mayweather clearly winning the fight 8-4, 7-5 or 7-4-1. The punchstats were big in Mayweather's favor and he just out boxed ODLH in the end it wasn't that close and if you honestly believe it was then you need to rewatch the fight because it wasn't close.

Collazo was an unknown and was the weakest belt holder at Welterweight if i remember rightly ?? it was supposed to be an easy belt for Hatton to pick up to make his claim at Welterweight, but it didn't work out that way as we all know.

I'll let you have the notion that Tszyu wasn't at his absolute best, but (and i think you'll agree with me here) i believe he would have struggled with Hatton even if he was 25. The swarming style has always given him toruble. I don't think he was shot by any means still so we'll have to agree to disagree (i hate that saying).

Same with Castillo.....i don't think he was shot. We'll have to reserve judgement on him for now. Let's see how he goes on against Bradley. Maybe it will give an indication of how much he has left.

The Hopkins and ODLH analogies were just sly digs at your reasoning. I was trying to explain that i would rather look out how the fighter was performing on the night, rather than his age or inactivity when deciding if i think he is shot or not.

And i agree that Mayweather won comfortably. It was just the most obvious example that i could use. ( ODLH had been about as active as Tszyu, similar age, but he still looked good).

And yeh the Collazo move backfired. I think any move to welterweight was and still is a dumb move on Hatton's part. Maybe the pro's outweighed the cons for the Mayweather fight .

Anyway i think we can see where eachother is coming from and we obviously have slightly different opinions on the matter. Good debate mate

[ICB]

I'll let you have the notion that Tszyu wasn't at his absolute best, but (and i think you'll agree with me here) i believe he would have struggled with Hatton even if he was 25. The swarming style has always given him toruble. I don't think he was shot by any means still so we'll have to agree to disagree (i hate that saying).

Same with Castillo.....i don't think he was shot. We'll have to reserve judgement on him for now. Let's see how he goes on against Bradley. Maybe it will give an indication of how much he has left.

The Hopkins and ODLH analogies were just sly digs at your reasoning. I was trying to explain that i would rather look out how the fighter was performing on the night, rather than his age or inactivity when deciding if i think he is shot or not.

And i agree that Mayweather won comfortably. It was just the most obvious example that i could use. ( ODLH had been about as active as Tszyu, similar age, but he still looked good).

And yeh the Collazo move backfired. I think any move to welterweight was and still is a dumb move on Hatton's part. Maybe the pro's outweighed the cons for the Mayweather fight .

Anyway i think we can see where eachother is coming from and we obviously have slightly different opinions on the matter. Good debate mate

Oh i agree with your first comment i just think Hatton's style would always beat Tszyu similar to how Vince Phillips beat Tszyu by swarming. Because Tszyu likes to have room to punch but if you take that away then Tszyu is going to be at a big disadvantage because he can't get power into his shots when he is head to head with an opponent up close.

I still think Castillo was shot but i'll wait until he fights Bradley then we can make a better accurate judgement on Castillo.

Good debate indeed i don't need to say no more mate we have agreed to disagree and we will leave it at that have some rep.