Lee vs. Vera

[Violent Demise]

Worst Stoppage Ever

Calzaghe-Mitchell stoppage was worse. Fuck Lee. Fucking punk was my joker pick for the week

[BoxingGorilla]

I think it was a fine stoppage.

Lee was running on fumes and throwing one arm punch at a time. Vera had the pedal to the metal and letting it roar.

Well... let's just say Vera was still throwing with some kind of meaning.

It was a matter of time and better sooner than later.

[RozzySean]

Spicoli and Gorilla are so off on this. Bad stoppage. If this ref was working Pavlik/Taylor 1, he would it would have been TKO 2 for Taylor. Lee was hurt, but he was still fighting back. He had staggered Vera in the previous round. Maybe Vera KO's him later that round, but Vera should have been given the opportunity to end it properly and Lee should have been given the opportunity to come back. I'm no huge Andy Lee fan, but if you think this was a good stoppage, you are just too wrapped up in the moment supporting an underdog. I love an upset as much as anybody, but I want to see it called correct. Had Vera won legit, I would be giving him all props, but the stoppage was crap, and if Vera gets back in the ring with Lee, he's going to get his ass handed to him.

[RP33]

Spicoli and Gorilla are so off on this. Bad stoppage. If this ref was working Pavlik/Taylor 1, he would it would have been TKO 2 for Taylor. Lee was hurt, but he was still fighting back. He had staggered Vera in the previous round. Maybe Vera KO's him later that round, but Vera should have been given the opportunity to end it properly and Lee should have been given the opportunity to come back. I'm no huge Andy Lee fan, but if you think this was a good stoppage, you are just too wrapped up in the moment supporting an underdog. I love an upset as much as anybody, but I want to see it called correct. Had Vera won legit, I would be giving him all props, but the stoppage was crap, and if Vera gets back in the ring with Lee, he's going to get his ass handed to him.

i agree that if they fought again that if Andy Lee even watched a round or two of the tape then he'd know what he did wrong (it was pretty DAMN obvious) and he'd go in and destroy Vera like he should have this time..

Do i think it was an "early stoppage" yes i do, especially considering Andy Lee was throwing back, but do i completely disagree with the refs call? No, I do not..

granted Vera was getting SMACKED with straight left hands all night, but he was never in as bad of shape as andy lee was at the end of the fight.. Vera was landing right hand after right hand and Andy was clearly on weak legs and hanging on to Vera to avoid a knock down.. Vera was never that desperate..

Andy Lee was hanging on for his life and then continued to get hit with hard right hands.. I mean, he really looked like he couldn't defend himself, and that's when the ref is supposed to step in, so i cannot argue with the stoppage..

[CFH]

Spicoli and Gorilla are so off on this. Bad stoppage. If this ref was working Pavlik/Taylor 1, he would it would have been TKO 2 for Taylor. Lee was hurt, but he was still fighting back. He had staggered Vera in the previous round. Maybe Vera KO's him later that round, but Vera should have been given the opportunity to end it properly and Lee should have been given the opportunity to come back. I'm no huge Andy Lee fan, but if you think this was a good stoppage, you are just too wrapped up in the moment supporting an underdog. I love an upset as much as anybody, but I want to see it called correct. Had Vera won legit, I would be giving him all props, but the stoppage was crap, and if Vera gets back in the ring with Lee, he's going to get his ass handed to him.

I agree. I just saw the fight and I'm not a Lee fan but that stoppage was bullshit. Lee was hurt but he was still firing back. He landed a straigh left right before the ref stopped it. Vera may or may not have finished him, but Lee did not deserve to be stopped at that point. Complete bullshit.

[Spicoli]

Spicoli and Gorilla are so off on this. Bad stoppage. If this ref was working Pavlik/Taylor 1, he would it would have been TKO 2 for Taylor. Lee was hurt, but he was still fighting back. He had staggered Vera in the previous round. Maybe Vera KO's him later that round, but Vera should have been given the opportunity to end it properly and Lee should have been given the opportunity to come back. I'm no huge Andy Lee fan, but if you think this was a good stoppage, you are just too wrapped up in the moment supporting an underdog. I love an upset as much as anybody, but I want to see it called correct. Had Vera won legit, I would be giving him all props, but the stoppage was crap, and if Vera gets back in the ring with Lee, he's going to get his ass handed to him.

Sorry Rozzy but this is the best thing that can happen to Lee right now.....The best of fighters have lost early on and looked to rebound well.Stoppage can be seen by some as Iffy and It will be noted by fans but Hypotheticals are a dime a dozen with comparisons. Lee was getting opened up on by a grade b-c guy in Vera with shots cleanly ,and Lee's body language was tired & Tattered.He was not ultimatley fazing Vera with shots and had no secondary game plan after cut and vera started backing him up.

I am not writing him off and Lee has the physical gifts to build on.I Liked his occasional sneaky inside shots and range but He was out worked and out punched down the stretch.We'll see Lee again and hopefully he can rebuild but he has some work to do.

[:::PSL:::]

Lee was taking a lot of full blown head shots. I have no problem with the stoppage. Too many flaws for both fighters. I don't think they'll be able to compete with elites.

[#1FightFan]

the show made it sooo seem like vera was nothing, and lee was the destroyer, even going so far as saying steward said he could be one of the greatest of all times.

with all that said, i didnt count on a great fight, but a short one.

BUT...

I ended up seeing one hell of a fight, seeing the underdog come back and putting a beating on the irishman.
congrats to vera, way to go~!!!!
now THATS how to respond to an opportunity given!!!
i get sick of seeing lackluster boxers dance to victory, while making millions. this young man showed great heart.
and he shut those up bigtime who gave him no chance.

the fight was stopped a bit short, but it wouldnt have changed the outcome: he was beaten, bloodied, off balance, his eyes were crossed, he was cut, and in another 10 or 15 seconds it woulda been all she wrote.

[superheavyrhun]

And I guess the Irish boxing bubble has burst big time here....after Duddy's disappointing showing last time out against a low-ranked fighter losing him a shot at Pavlik, and Dunne losing his European belt at the end of last year....Andy Lee was the big hope due to set the middleweights alight. Look at the predicitions on the first page....Shocker indeed.

And we find out from Sal you can't do all caps in a post. Valuable knowledge at the double on this thread!

[RozzySean]

Spicoli and Gorilla are so off on this. Bad stoppage. If this ref was working Pavlik/Taylor 1, he would it would have been TKO 2 for Taylor. Lee was hurt, but he was still fighting back. He had staggered Vera in the previous round. Maybe Vera KO's him later that round, but Vera should have been given the opportunity to end it properly and Lee should have been given the opportunity to come back. I'm no huge Andy Lee fan, but if you think this was a good stoppage, you are just too wrapped up in the moment supporting an underdog. I love an upset as much as anybody, but I want to see it called correct. Had Vera won legit, I would be giving him all props, but the stoppage was crap, and if Vera gets back in the ring with Lee, he's going to get his ass handed to him.

Sorry Rozzy but this is the best thing that can happen to Lee right now.....The best of fighters have lost early on and looked to rebound well.Stoppage can be seen by some as Iffy and It will be noted by fans but Hypotheticals are a dime a dozen with comparisons. Lee was getting opened up on by a grade b-c guy in Vera with shots cleanly ,and Lee's body language was tired & Tattered.He was not ultimatley fazing Vera with shots and had no secondary game plan after cut and vera started backing him up.

I am not writing him off and Lee has the physical gifts to build on.I Liked his occasional sneaky inside shots and range but He was out worked and out punched down the stretch.We'll see Lee again and hopefully he can rebuild but he has some work to do.

This may be a good thing for Lee in the long run, but I disagree the Lee wasn't phasing Vera. It was a very close fight, in fact, Lee was up on the cards. It's not like Vera was dominating every round. He was just dominating THAT round. I could see the stoppage if Vera had been dominating on the cards and Lee didn't have a chance to come back and win. This isn't the amatuers. That might have been a good stoppage in a Golden Gloves match, but for pro main event, it was garbage. Lee was still throwing back, for gods sake!!

[Hulk]

Spicoli and Gorilla are so off on this. Bad stoppage. If this ref was working Pavlik/Taylor 1, he would it would have been TKO 2 for Taylor. Lee was hurt, but he was still fighting back. He had staggered Vera in the previous round. Maybe Vera KO's him later that round, but Vera should have been given the opportunity to end it properly and Lee should have been given the opportunity to come back. I'm no huge Andy Lee fan, but if you think this was a good stoppage, you are just too wrapped up in the moment supporting an underdog. I love an upset as much as anybody, but I want to see it called correct. Had Vera won legit, I would be giving him all props, but the stoppage was crap, and if Vera gets back in the ring with Lee, he's going to get his ass handed to him.

Sorry Rozzy but this is the best thing that can happen to Lee right now.....The best of fighters have lost early on and looked to rebound well.Stoppage can be seen by some as Iffy and It will be noted by fans but Hypotheticals are a dime a dozen with comparisons. Lee was getting opened up on by a grade b-c guy in Vera with shots cleanly ,and Lee's body language was tired & Tattered.He was not ultimatley fazing Vera with shots and had no secondary game plan after cut and vera started backing him up.

I am not writing him off and Lee has the physical gifts to build on.I Liked his occasional sneaky inside shots and range but He was out worked and out punched down the stretch.We'll see Lee again and hopefully he can rebuild but he has some work to do.

This may be a good thing for Lee in the long run, but I disagree the Lee wasn't phasing Vera. It was a very close fight, in fact, Lee was up on the cards. It's not like Vera was dominating every round. He was just dominating THAT round. I could see the stoppage if Vera had been dominating on the cards and Lee didn't have a chance to come back and win. This isn't the amatuers. That might have been a good stoppage in a Golden Gloves match, but for pro main event, it was garbage. Lee was still throwing back, for gods sake!!

Give it a rest man. Lee lost, the underdog won. Everyone is happy but you and a few other Lee fans. He fought a stupid fight and lost.

[RozzySean]

Sorry Rozzy but this is the best thing that can happen to Lee right now.....The best of fighters have lost early on and looked to rebound well.Stoppage can be seen by some as Iffy and It will be noted by fans but Hypotheticals are a dime a dozen with comparisons. Lee was getting opened up on by a grade b-c guy in Vera with shots cleanly ,and Lee's body language was tired & Tattered.He was not ultimatley fazing Vera with shots and had no secondary game plan after cut and vera started backing him up.

I am not writing him off and Lee has the physical gifts to build on.I Liked his occasional sneaky inside shots and range but He was out worked and out punched down the stretch.We'll see Lee again and hopefully he can rebuild but he has some work to do.

This may be a good thing for Lee in the long run, but I disagree the Lee wasn't phasing Vera. It was a very close fight, in fact, Lee was up on the cards. It's not like Vera was dominating every round. He was just dominating THAT round. I could see the stoppage if Vera had been dominating on the cards and Lee didn't have a chance to come back and win. This isn't the amatuers. That might have been a good stoppage in a Golden Gloves match, but for pro main event, it was garbage. Lee was still throwing back, for gods sake!!

Give it a rest man. Lee lost, the underdog won. Everyone is happy but you and a few other Lee fans. He fought a stupid fight and lost.

I wouldn't consider myself a big Lee fan, and I'm happy for Vera. I was cheering for Vera from the 12th row when he beat Max Alexander's ass in Boston. Vera is a better fighter than most people give him credit for being. His only loss came to a guy who has only lost to Allen Greene and Sakio Bika, and Coddrington gave Bika a heck of a fight. I'm having a legit debate over whether or not it was good stoppage, and there are other people who agree with me.

So if you want to make a point, make a point other than calling me a fan-boy and not contributing anything to the discussion.

[Spicoli]

Spicoli and Gorilla are so off on this. Bad stoppage. If this ref was working Pavlik/Taylor 1, he would it would have been TKO 2 for Taylor. Lee was hurt, but he was still fighting back. He had staggered Vera in the previous round. Maybe Vera KO's him later that round, but Vera should have been given the opportunity to end it properly and Lee should have been given the opportunity to come back. I'm no huge Andy Lee fan, but if you think this was a good stoppage, you are just too wrapped up in the moment supporting an underdog. I love an upset as much as anybody, but I want to see it called correct. Had Vera won legit, I would be giving him all props, but the stoppage was crap, and if Vera gets back in the ring with Lee, he's going to get his ass handed to him.

Sorry Rozzy but this is the best thing that can happen to Lee right now.....The best of fighters have lost early on and looked to rebound well.Stoppage can be seen by some as Iffy and It will be noted by fans but Hypotheticals are a dime a dozen with comparisons. Lee was getting opened up on by a grade b-c guy in Vera with shots cleanly ,and Lee's body language was tired & Tattered.He was not ultimatley fazing Vera with shots and had no secondary game plan after cut and vera started backing him up.

I am not writing him off and Lee has the physical gifts to build on.I Liked his occasional sneaky inside shots and range but He was out worked and out punched down the stretch.We'll see Lee again and hopefully he can rebuild but he has some work to do.

This may be a good thing for Lee in the long run, but I disagree the Lee wasn't phasing Vera. It was a very close fight, in fact, Lee was up on the cards. It's not like Vera was dominating every round. He was just dominating THAT round. I could see the stoppage if Vera had been dominating on the cards and Lee didn't have a chance to come back and win. This isn't the amatuers. That might have been a good stoppage in a Golden Gloves match, but for pro main event, it was garbage. Lee was still throwing back, for gods sake!!

Agree that Vera was not fully dominating Lee but it sure looked like he gave lee a shalacking in the 4th as well

If you could see a stoppage depending on the wideness of the score......I have to ask Is it the refs Job to keep track of the Scores or should he be more focused on a fighter absorbing graduale damage??Lee was foggy and getting wrecked,Vera was teeing off with much more impact then Lee at that point in the fight.Dont get me wrong....I think they seek a rematch and i believe Lee can re-tool and exploit Veras somewhat wreckless style for an educational win.

[p4pking]

Sorry Rozzy but this is the best thing that can happen to Lee right now.....The best of fighters have lost early on and looked to rebound well.Stoppage can be seen by some as Iffy and It will be noted by fans but Hypotheticals are a dime a dozen with comparisons. Lee was getting opened up on by a grade b-c guy in Vera with shots cleanly ,and Lee's body language was tired & Tattered.He was not ultimatley fazing Vera with shots and had no secondary game plan after cut and vera started backing him up.

I am not writing him off and Lee has the physical gifts to build on.I Liked his occasional sneaky inside shots and range but He was out worked and out punched down the stretch.We'll see Lee again and hopefully he can rebuild but he has some work to do.

This may be a good thing for Lee in the long run, but I disagree the Lee wasn't phasing Vera. It was a very close fight, in fact, Lee was up on the cards. It's not like Vera was dominating every round. He was just dominating THAT round. I could see the stoppage if Vera had been dominating on the cards and Lee didn't have a chance to come back and win. This isn't the amatuers. That might have been a good stoppage in a Golden Gloves match, but for pro main event, it was garbage. Lee was still throwing back, for gods sake!!

Agree that Vera was not fully dominating Lee but it sure looked like he gave lee a shalacking in the 4th as well

If you could see a stoppage depending on the wideness of the score......I have to ask Is it the refs Job to keep track of the Scores or should he be more focused on a fighter absorbing graduale damage??Lee was foggy and getting wrecked,Vera was teeing off with much more impact then Lee at that point in the fight.Dont get me wrong....I think they seek a rematch and i believe Lee can re-tool and exploit Veras somewhat wreckless style for an educational win.

Exactly. A ref doesn't need to know the scores, it's completely irrelevant as far as him doing his job. Instead he needs to monitor how much punishment each fighter has taken over the fight, their willingness and ability to fight on, their condition. I think he made a gutsy call in ending the fight there, no reason for a young kid to take obscene punishment on the off chance he could manage to survive past the journeyman pummeling him. The tide was clearly turning completely in Vera's favour as well, even in the rounds Lee won, he reacted much worse to shots he was being hit with than Vera did.

[p4pking]

Spicoli and Gorilla are so off on this. Bad stoppage. If this ref was working Pavlik/Taylor 1, he would it would have been TKO 2 for Taylor. Lee was hurt, but he was still fighting back. He had staggered Vera in the previous round. Maybe Vera KO's him later that round, but Vera should have been given the opportunity to end it properly and Lee should have been given the opportunity to come back. I'm no huge Andy Lee fan, but if you think this was a good stoppage, you are just too wrapped up in the moment supporting an underdog. I love an upset as much as anybody, but I want to see it called correct. Had Vera won legit, I would be giving him all props, but the stoppage was crap, and if Vera gets back in the ring with Lee, he's going to get his ass handed to him.

Even if Lee could have continued with any chance of turning things around(certainly didn't look that way), it's not worth comparing this stoppage to a CHAMPIONSHIP fight. The ref SHOULD generally allow fighters to continue when hurt, and give them a little more benefit of the doubt when it's two elite fighters competiting for a lineal championship. This was a young inexperienced prospects TV debut against an extremely limited fighter. There's no reason that Lee should have had to endure more punishment on the off chance that he may pull a hail mary out of nowhere and turn things around. What is the point, whether the fight was stopped then, a couple rounds later, or even if Lee had managed to shake off the cobwebs and win a decision, he was still exposed, the damage was already done, and he had little to gain in trying to fight on. I think the ref made an excellent call in stopping it there. Not because Lee couldn't have continued, but because he didn't want to, and he was taking a LOT of punishment. If that fight had been let continue Lee could have got very hurt. You don't sound like much of a fan of his if that's what you wanted to see.