Lee vs. Vera

[RozzySean]

Spicoli and Gorilla are so off on this. Bad stoppage. If this ref was working Pavlik/Taylor 1, he would it would have been TKO 2 for Taylor. Lee was hurt, but he was still fighting back. He had staggered Vera in the previous round. Maybe Vera KO's him later that round, but Vera should have been given the opportunity to end it properly and Lee should have been given the opportunity to come back. I'm no huge Andy Lee fan, but if you think this was a good stoppage, you are just too wrapped up in the moment supporting an underdog. I love an upset as much as anybody, but I want to see it called correct. Had Vera won legit, I would be giving him all props, but the stoppage was crap, and if Vera gets back in the ring with Lee, he's going to get his ass handed to him.

Sorry Rozzy but this is the best thing that can happen to Lee right now.....The best of fighters have lost early on and looked to rebound well.Stoppage can be seen by some as Iffy and It will be noted by fans but Hypotheticals are a dime a dozen with comparisons. Lee was getting opened up on by a grade b-c guy in Vera with shots cleanly ,and Lee's body language was tired & Tattered.He was not ultimatley fazing Vera with shots and had no secondary game plan after cut and vera started backing him up.

I am not writing him off and Lee has the physical gifts to build on.I Liked his occasional sneaky inside shots and range but He was out worked and out punched down the stretch.We'll see Lee again and hopefully he can rebuild but he has some work to do.

This may be a good thing for Lee in the long run, but I disagree the Lee wasn't phasing Vera. It was a very close fight, in fact, Lee was up on the cards. It's not like Vera was dominating every round. He was just dominating THAT round. I could see the stoppage if Vera had been dominating on the cards and Lee didn't have a chance to come back and win. This isn't the amatuers. That might have been a good stoppage in a Golden Gloves match, but for pro main event, it was garbage. Lee was still throwing back, for gods sake!!

[Hulk]

Spicoli and Gorilla are so off on this. Bad stoppage. If this ref was working Pavlik/Taylor 1, he would it would have been TKO 2 for Taylor. Lee was hurt, but he was still fighting back. He had staggered Vera in the previous round. Maybe Vera KO's him later that round, but Vera should have been given the opportunity to end it properly and Lee should have been given the opportunity to come back. I'm no huge Andy Lee fan, but if you think this was a good stoppage, you are just too wrapped up in the moment supporting an underdog. I love an upset as much as anybody, but I want to see it called correct. Had Vera won legit, I would be giving him all props, but the stoppage was crap, and if Vera gets back in the ring with Lee, he's going to get his ass handed to him.

Sorry Rozzy but this is the best thing that can happen to Lee right now.....The best of fighters have lost early on and looked to rebound well.Stoppage can be seen by some as Iffy and It will be noted by fans but Hypotheticals are a dime a dozen with comparisons. Lee was getting opened up on by a grade b-c guy in Vera with shots cleanly ,and Lee's body language was tired & Tattered.He was not ultimatley fazing Vera with shots and had no secondary game plan after cut and vera started backing him up.

I am not writing him off and Lee has the physical gifts to build on.I Liked his occasional sneaky inside shots and range but He was out worked and out punched down the stretch.We'll see Lee again and hopefully he can rebuild but he has some work to do.

This may be a good thing for Lee in the long run, but I disagree the Lee wasn't phasing Vera. It was a very close fight, in fact, Lee was up on the cards. It's not like Vera was dominating every round. He was just dominating THAT round. I could see the stoppage if Vera had been dominating on the cards and Lee didn't have a chance to come back and win. This isn't the amatuers. That might have been a good stoppage in a Golden Gloves match, but for pro main event, it was garbage. Lee was still throwing back, for gods sake!!

Give it a rest man. Lee lost, the underdog won. Everyone is happy but you and a few other Lee fans. He fought a stupid fight and lost.

[RozzySean]

Sorry Rozzy but this is the best thing that can happen to Lee right now.....The best of fighters have lost early on and looked to rebound well.Stoppage can be seen by some as Iffy and It will be noted by fans but Hypotheticals are a dime a dozen with comparisons. Lee was getting opened up on by a grade b-c guy in Vera with shots cleanly ,and Lee's body language was tired & Tattered.He was not ultimatley fazing Vera with shots and had no secondary game plan after cut and vera started backing him up.

I am not writing him off and Lee has the physical gifts to build on.I Liked his occasional sneaky inside shots and range but He was out worked and out punched down the stretch.We'll see Lee again and hopefully he can rebuild but he has some work to do.

This may be a good thing for Lee in the long run, but I disagree the Lee wasn't phasing Vera. It was a very close fight, in fact, Lee was up on the cards. It's not like Vera was dominating every round. He was just dominating THAT round. I could see the stoppage if Vera had been dominating on the cards and Lee didn't have a chance to come back and win. This isn't the amatuers. That might have been a good stoppage in a Golden Gloves match, but for pro main event, it was garbage. Lee was still throwing back, for gods sake!!

Give it a rest man. Lee lost, the underdog won. Everyone is happy but you and a few other Lee fans. He fought a stupid fight and lost.

I wouldn't consider myself a big Lee fan, and I'm happy for Vera. I was cheering for Vera from the 12th row when he beat Max Alexander's ass in Boston. Vera is a better fighter than most people give him credit for being. His only loss came to a guy who has only lost to Allen Greene and Sakio Bika, and Coddrington gave Bika a heck of a fight. I'm having a legit debate over whether or not it was good stoppage, and there are other people who agree with me.

So if you want to make a point, make a point other than calling me a fan-boy and not contributing anything to the discussion.

[Hulk]

This may be a good thing for Lee in the long run, but I disagree the Lee wasn't phasing Vera. It was a very close fight, in fact, Lee was up on the cards. It's not like Vera was dominating every round. He was just dominating THAT round. I could see the stoppage if Vera had been dominating on the cards and Lee didn't have a chance to come back and win. This isn't the amatuers. That might have been a good stoppage in a Golden Gloves match, but for pro main event, it was garbage. Lee was still throwing back, for gods sake!!

Give it a rest man. Lee lost, the underdog won. Everyone is happy but you and a few other Lee fans. He fought a stupid fight and lost.

I wouldn't consider myself a big Lee fan, and I'm happy for Vera. I was cheering for Vera from the 12th row when he beat Max Alexander's ass in Boston. Vera is a better fighter than most people give him credit for being. His only loss came to a guy who has only lost to Allen Greene and Sakio Bika, and Coddrington gave Bika a heck of a fight. I'm having a legit debate over whether or not it was good stoppage, and there are other people who agree with me.

So if you want to make a point, make a point other than calling me a fan-boy and not contributing anything to the discussion.

It was a legit stoppage, Lee had been wobbled several times in that round and was batterd and did not have his legs under him, you fan boy.

[RozzySean]

Give it a rest man. Lee lost, the underdog won. Everyone is happy but you and a few other Lee fans. He fought a stupid fight and lost.

I wouldn't consider myself a big Lee fan, and I'm happy for Vera. I was cheering for Vera from the 12th row when he beat Max Alexander's ass in Boston. Vera is a better fighter than most people give him credit for being. His only loss came to a guy who has only lost to Allen Greene and Sakio Bika, and Coddrington gave Bika a heck of a fight. I'm having a legit debate over whether or not it was good stoppage, and there are other people who agree with me.

So if you want to make a point, make a point other than calling me a fan-boy and not contributing anything to the discussion.

It was a legit stoppage, Lee had been wobbled several times in that round and was batterd and did not have his legs under him, you fan boy.

Whatever, douchebag.

[El Kabong]

Well I was going to start my own thread about all this but this looks like a fine place to post.


So Andy Lee is supposed to be the next big thing in the middleweight division...well I still believe it and I'm sticking by my boy.


Vera was a solid super middleweight and usually when bringing a fighter a long you find fights vs smaller fighters and build up their confidence. Vera is still a limited fighter but he's tough and stubborn and if you mess up in your strategy this is what happens.

Andy Lee tatooed Vera with power punches....they knocked him down once but never really buster his face up or cut him or bothered him other than a few times.

This fight is where EXPERIENCE would have paid off rather than sheer determination and guts....this is why Wladimir Klitschko is a Champion and (sorry to offend anyone) this is how we really know Andy Lee is Irish.

Andy gave us an exciting fight, trading power punches with someone obviously less talented than himself, both fighters paying little to no attention to defense or skill.....that is how journeymen win, that is how upsets happen and this is a VALUEABLE LEARNING EXPERIENCE. Sure Andy Lee is no longer undefeated but it's one less thing he has to worry about. What Andy has to do now is to regroup, fight on, box a little more, develop his defense and in-fighting(perhaps an uppercut would suit him) and his confidence will come back and he's going to obviously aim for a rematch if he's a smart fella (so it'll answer any questions as he builds his legacy) ....well hell he's Irish I'm sure he'll curse Vera until he has the opportunity to fight him again.

Andy Lee is going to be ok, he's got to pick his spots and learn what Wlad and Lennox and Tommy Hearns have had to learn. Andy answered questions about his chin and his heart and his guts but he has to be a SMART fighter and he can do it, I have no doubts about it...he's going to regroup and this loss will be good for him now as opposed to happening under different circumstances...he didn't get sparked out either which is also good news.

As for the stoppage, it was coming but I think the timing was God awful....Lee just answered back and seemed to be coming out of it....now before that then yeah I could see it coming. That ref wasn't the best in the world.

This loss is a MINOR setback given the circumstances and the opponent

[OumaFan]

I'm not gonna debate that boxing fans make too much out of one loss, its obvious that we do. Still not sure that he's really the future though Lyle. If his power isn't enough in a fight I'm not sure he's got the defense or the chin (although that's debatable, sometimes its hard to read a guy's chin) to beat the top level guys. Something I've noticed in a few of his fights is the guy is way too open to right hands. Maybe he can work on that, who knows but Steward needs to calm down and work on his fundamentals and STFU about Pavlik (open to right hands is pretty clearly not a good thing against Pavlik). At least for the time being.

[The Fightfan]

Well I was going to start my own thread about all this but this looks like a fine place to post.


So Andy Lee is supposed to be the next big thing in the middleweight division...well I still believe it and I'm sticking by my boy.


Vera was a solid super middleweight and usually when bringing a fighter a long you find fights vs smaller fighters and build up their confidence. Vera is still a limited fighter but he's tough and stubborn and if you mess up in your strategy this is what happens.

Andy Lee tatooed Vera with power punches....they knocked him down once but never really buster his face up or cut him or bothered him other than a few times.

This fight is where EXPERIENCE would have paid off rather than sheer determination and guts....this is why Wladimir Klitschko is a Champion and (sorry to offend anyone) this is how we really know Andy Lee is Irish.

Andy gave us an exciting fight, trading power punches with someone obviously less talented than himself, both fighters paying little to no attention to defense or skill.....that is how journeymen win, that is how upsets happen and this is a VALUEABLE LEARNING EXPERIENCE. Sure Andy Lee is no longer undefeated but it's one less thing he has to worry about. What Andy has to do now is to regroup, fight on, box a little more, develop his defense and in-fighting(perhaps an uppercut would suit him) and his confidence will come back and he's going to obviously aim for a rematch if he's a smart fella (so it'll answer any questions as he builds his legacy) ....well hell he's Irish I'm sure he'll curse Vera until he has the opportunity to fight him again.

Andy Lee is going to be ok, he's got to pick his spots and learn what Wlad and Lennox and Tommy Hearns have had to learn. Andy answered questions about his chin and his heart and his guts but he has to be a SMART fighter and he can do it, I have no doubts about it...he's going to regroup and this loss will be good for him now as opposed to happening under different circumstances...he didn't get sparked out either which is also good news.

As for the stoppage, it was coming but I think the timing was God awful....Lee just answered back and seemed to be coming out of it....now before that then yeah I could see it coming. That ref wasn't the best in the world.

This loss is a MINOR setback given the circumstances and the opponent

Do you think Lee has power? I mean he hit Vera with every straight left hand he could possibly throw and still Vera didn't budge.I think he has very good skills but no power and when he's pressured from what I've seen he's lost (meaning he doesn't know what to do, not literally lost).I like 'em but he will never be a champion.

[Spicoli]

Spicoli and Gorilla are so off on this. Bad stoppage. If this ref was working Pavlik/Taylor 1, he would it would have been TKO 2 for Taylor. Lee was hurt, but he was still fighting back. He had staggered Vera in the previous round. Maybe Vera KO's him later that round, but Vera should have been given the opportunity to end it properly and Lee should have been given the opportunity to come back. I'm no huge Andy Lee fan, but if you think this was a good stoppage, you are just too wrapped up in the moment supporting an underdog. I love an upset as much as anybody, but I want to see it called correct. Had Vera won legit, I would be giving him all props, but the stoppage was crap, and if Vera gets back in the ring with Lee, he's going to get his ass handed to him.

Sorry Rozzy but this is the best thing that can happen to Lee right now.....The best of fighters have lost early on and looked to rebound well.Stoppage can be seen by some as Iffy and It will be noted by fans but Hypotheticals are a dime a dozen with comparisons. Lee was getting opened up on by a grade b-c guy in Vera with shots cleanly ,and Lee's body language was tired & Tattered.He was not ultimatley fazing Vera with shots and had no secondary game plan after cut and vera started backing him up.

I am not writing him off and Lee has the physical gifts to build on.I Liked his occasional sneaky inside shots and range but He was out worked and out punched down the stretch.We'll see Lee again and hopefully he can rebuild but he has some work to do.

This may be a good thing for Lee in the long run, but I disagree the Lee wasn't phasing Vera. It was a very close fight, in fact, Lee was up on the cards. It's not like Vera was dominating every round. He was just dominating THAT round. I could see the stoppage if Vera had been dominating on the cards and Lee didn't have a chance to come back and win. This isn't the amatuers. That might have been a good stoppage in a Golden Gloves match, but for pro main event, it was garbage. Lee was still throwing back, for gods sake!!

Agree that Vera was not fully dominating Lee but it sure looked like he gave lee a shalacking in the 4th as well

If you could see a stoppage depending on the wideness of the score......I have to ask Is it the refs Job to keep track of the Scores or should he be more focused on a fighter absorbing graduale damage??Lee was foggy and getting wrecked,Vera was teeing off with much more impact then Lee at that point in the fight.Dont get me wrong....I think they seek a rematch and i believe Lee can re-tool and exploit Veras somewhat wreckless style for an educational win.

[p4pking]

Sorry Rozzy but this is the best thing that can happen to Lee right now.....The best of fighters have lost early on and looked to rebound well.Stoppage can be seen by some as Iffy and It will be noted by fans but Hypotheticals are a dime a dozen with comparisons. Lee was getting opened up on by a grade b-c guy in Vera with shots cleanly ,and Lee's body language was tired & Tattered.He was not ultimatley fazing Vera with shots and had no secondary game plan after cut and vera started backing him up.

I am not writing him off and Lee has the physical gifts to build on.I Liked his occasional sneaky inside shots and range but He was out worked and out punched down the stretch.We'll see Lee again and hopefully he can rebuild but he has some work to do.

This may be a good thing for Lee in the long run, but I disagree the Lee wasn't phasing Vera. It was a very close fight, in fact, Lee was up on the cards. It's not like Vera was dominating every round. He was just dominating THAT round. I could see the stoppage if Vera had been dominating on the cards and Lee didn't have a chance to come back and win. This isn't the amatuers. That might have been a good stoppage in a Golden Gloves match, but for pro main event, it was garbage. Lee was still throwing back, for gods sake!!

Agree that Vera was not fully dominating Lee but it sure looked like he gave lee a shalacking in the 4th as well

If you could see a stoppage depending on the wideness of the score......I have to ask Is it the refs Job to keep track of the Scores or should he be more focused on a fighter absorbing graduale damage??Lee was foggy and getting wrecked,Vera was teeing off with much more impact then Lee at that point in the fight.Dont get me wrong....I think they seek a rematch and i believe Lee can re-tool and exploit Veras somewhat wreckless style for an educational win.

Exactly. A ref doesn't need to know the scores, it's completely irrelevant as far as him doing his job. Instead he needs to monitor how much punishment each fighter has taken over the fight, their willingness and ability to fight on, their condition. I think he made a gutsy call in ending the fight there, no reason for a young kid to take obscene punishment on the off chance he could manage to survive past the journeyman pummeling him. The tide was clearly turning completely in Vera's favour as well, even in the rounds Lee won, he reacted much worse to shots he was being hit with than Vera did.