If Tony Beats Cotto...it doesn't mean Cotto can't beat Floyd....

[SweetPea]

Why is everyone hating on Tony so much? I agree that he's slower and in a sense more one dimensional but, the guy bangs!

Who's hating on him? All I said was that he's not an elite superstar. Is that hating?

Tell me if either fighter (Floyd or Cotto) can do what is necessary to beat Marg. and if you dont know what that is ask PW, it would only take just over 1000 punches in the fight to beat Marg...niether Cotto nor Floyd have that work rate.

It takes over 1000 punches to beat Margarito if you're a fighter like Paul Williams, who doesn't have much power and doesn't know how to make his opponent miss. Floyd wouldn't need Williams' workrate because he would know how to make Margarito miss, and Cotto doesn't need Williams' workrate because his punches are much harder and sharper.

Floyd is slick and he's quicker so thats an easier fight for him but Cotto isnt that quick and he doesnt like to run and niether have faced a puncher like Cotto period.

I don't know what this sentence means.

Marg. is the hardest puncher in the ww division.

No he's not. He's the most active puncher in the welterweight division. Big difference.

Not Oscar, Zab, Mayorga, Mosley, or anyone else in that division is the puncher that Marg. is,

Both Cotto and Cintron punch harder than Margarito.

[Onix]

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Originally Posted by OnixAA
Why is everyone hating on Tony so much? I agree that he's slower and in a sense more one dimensional but, the guy bangs!

Who's hating on him? All I said was that he's not an elite superstar. Is that hating?

what constitues an ellit fighter Rank, record, opponents faced

Quote:
Tell me if either fighter (Floyd or Cotto) can do what is necessary to beat Marg. and if you dont know what that is ask PW, it would only take just over 1000 punches in the fight to beat Marg...niether Cotto nor Floyd have that work rate.
It takes over 1000 punches to beat Margarito if you're a fighter like Paul Williams, who doesn't have much power and doesn't know how to make his opponent miss. Floyd wouldn't need Williams' workrate because he would know how to make Margarito miss, and Cotto doesn't need Williams' workrate because his punches are much harder and sharper.

I would agree with you there but if Cotto and Cintron have the same punch power, Cotto is going to need to work alittle bit more, because Marg. walked through Cintrons punches.


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Floyd is slick and he's quicker so thats an easier fight for him but Cotto isnt that quick and he doesnt like to run and niether have faced a puncher like Cotto period.
I don't know what this sentence means.

I mean to say a puncher like Marg.


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Marg. is the hardest puncher in the ww division.
No he's not. He's the most active puncher in the welterweight division. Big difference.


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Not Oscar, Zab, Mayorga, Mosley, or anyone else in that division is the puncher that Marg. is,
Both Cotto and Cintron punch harder than Margarito.

Again if Cintron and Cotto have anywhere near the same punch power, Cotto is in deep doodoo. Besides I know for sure that Cintron is not as strong as Marg. Cotto maybe but he wont KO Marg.

[zhubin]

Floyd is all about $$$...hence...he will most likely never fight Tony. If Tony upsets Cotto and makes it clear he is the man at WW....there might be a small chance he will get a fight with Mayweather...but i doubt it. Tony isn't a superstar and he doesn't have a huge fan base. Cotto is the rising superstar and he does have a huge fan base. That being said, i think Tony would be way over his head fighting Floyd. And as good a fighter as Cotto is...i can't see him beating Floyd either. Sure, Cotto has an excellent jab (and a jab is key to having success against Floyd). But he doesn't have great speed and is still open to getting hit. It would be a good fight no doubt. But Floyd is still to slick and fast for him.

[Rican]

I agree with Gamo 100%. If Cotto loses to Margo, how can Floyd say Cotto doesn't deserve to fight him, considering Floyd has ducked Margarito for years? People say Floyd defeats Margo, but that has never been proven in the ring, and we know Margo would give a better performance than Baldomir, Gatti, Mitchell, Brusseles, Hatton, and yes, de la Hoya. If Margo beats Cotto, then he definitely deserves first crack at Floyd, but I doubt Floyd wants to fight Margo at all.

[amat]

I agree with Gamo 100%. If Cotto loses to Margo, how can Floyd say Cotto doesn't deserve to fight him, considering Floyd has ducked Margarito for years? People say Floyd defeats Margo, but that has never been proven in the ring, and we know Margo would give a better performance than Baldomir, Gatti, Mitchell, Brusseles, Hatton, and yes, de la Hoya. If Margo beats Cotto, then he definitely deserves first crack at Floyd, but I doubt Floyd wants to fight Margo at all.

I disagree with that. I don't think Margarito - Mayweather ever happens even if Margarito somehow beats Cotto and perosnally I don't really care. I don't think Margarito would win more then 3 rounds versus Mayweather. Don't think he would fare as well as DLH or Hatton.

[CutMeMick]

People gotta understand sometimes and I've been like this myself that because a fighter looses to someone then he's done or that means he can't beat anyonelse.

I definitely understand this. But the point is that there is a big enough gap in talent between Margarito and Floyd, that if Cotto can't beat Margarito, it's reasonable to assume he can't beat Floyd.

It's not like Margarito presents some awkward style that could give Cotto fits. Cotto is superior in every aspect to Margarito. More power, faster hands, better jab, more offensive variety, better defense, etc. Margarito has the type of style that should allow Cotto to show off all his skills. If Cotto can't do that against Margarito, then he's not as good as we thought.

The talent gap between Vilomar and Mancini or Escalera was how far apart?

Duran beat SRL, SRL beat Hearns now that didn't mean that when Duran fought Hearns that he was gonna win did it?

So because Cotto loses to Margarito that doesn't mean he can't beat PBF.

[amat]

People gotta understand sometimes and I've been like this myself that because a fighter looses to someone then he's done or that means he can't beat anyonelse.

I definitely understand this. But the point is that there is a big enough gap in talent between Margarito and Floyd, that if Cotto can't beat Margarito, it's reasonable to assume he can't beat Floyd.

It's not like Margarito presents some awkward style that could give Cotto fits. Cotto is superior in every aspect to Margarito. More power, faster hands, better jab, more offensive variety, better defense, etc. Margarito has the type of style that should allow Cotto to show off all his skills. If Cotto can't do that against Margarito, then he's not as good as we thought.

The talent gap between Vilomar and Mancini or Escalera was how far apart?

Duran beat SRL, SRL beat Hearns now that didn't mean that when Duran fought Hearns that he was gonna win did it?

So because Cotto loses to Margarito that doesn't mean he can't beat PBF.

This is different though because this is a case where Margarito isn't your traditional "trap" fight which a lot of those were. Margarito isn't some unknown and the reasons most of the fighters you named were expecting to roll right over their opponents, not evaluating the threats they possessed. This happened with Cotto and Torres, someone he showed no respect for his power and then found out the hard way he could bang. Torres was a low profile guy, good but most expected a Cotto beating to be unleashed.

He knows Tony is a tough guy but he is better, he should know that he will have to be in top form and as a champion, that's what is expected of him.

Cotto needs to do what is expected of him in beating Tony otherwise how could we ever believe he expects to beat Mayweather? And that's a valid point. No matter what Cotto will have the chance to beat Maweather but realistically, he can't lose to Margarito and expect to beat Floyd.

[SweetPea]

Duran beat SRL, SRL beat Hearns now that didn't mean that when Duran fought Hearns that he was gonna win did it?

This is a completely different situation though. Leonard, Duran and Hearns were all on a similar level. They were all elite all-time great fighters, and since they were all on a similar level, style matchups came into play.

That's my point here.... Mayweather, Cotto, and Margarito are not all on similar levels. Mayweather is an elite fighter. Margarito is a very good professional fighter, but not elite. Cotto is a very very good fighter who has shown many signs of being an elite fighter. If Cotto can't beat Margarito, who is a clear level or two below Mayweather, then there's no reason to believe Cotto can beat Mayweather.

Generally speaking, upsets occur for one of three reasons:
1. The favorite comes in unprepared and/or out of shape
2. The underdog has a style that is tailor-made to give the favorite problems
3. The favorite isn't as good as we thought he was

#1 and #2 do not apply to Cotto-Margarito. Cotto is a pro who shows up focused and in-shape. This is a big PPV fight that's already being billed as a FOTY candidate. Cotto isn't going to show up unprepared or out of shape.
Margarito does not have the type of style to give Cotto fits. Margarito shows very little movement and is right there to be hit all night long. Margarito is a high-contact fighter, and that should allow Cotto to show off his superior offensive arsenal all night long.

Which leaves only #3. If Cotto loses, it won't be because he's out-of-shape, it won't be because he's unprepared, it won't be because of a bad style matchup. If he loses, it will mean that he's closer to Margarito's "very good" level, and not close to Mayweather's "elite" level.

I completely understand your point that we often overreact to one loss on a fighter's record. That is absolutely true and I've been guilty of it before. I also completely agree with your statement that just because A beats B, and B beats C, that doesn't mean A automatically beats C. But in this particular case, I think the only type of fighter than can beat Mayweather right now is a Top 5 PFP star fighter, and if Cotto is really a Top 5 PFP star fighter (which I believe he is), then he has no excuse to lose to Margarito, who is very good, but not THAT good.

[SweetPea]

Again if Cintron and Cotto have anywhere near the same punch power, Cotto is in deep doodoo.

Why would Cotto be in "deep doodoo?"

Cotto is a far superior technical boxer. He might not have better one punch KO power than Cintron, but he's a far superior offensive fighter with many more weapons.

Cintron needed to be able to badly hurt Margarito with one punch to win. Cotto doesn't need to do that. He's a well-rounded boxer, not a raw puncher.