Was Muhammad Ali really the best

[BIG H]

I'm sorry that's ridiculous to rank Marciano over Ali. He had I think 7 title defenses and none of them were anything stellar. That's absurd Lyle and I love Rocky Marciano. Ali more or less dominated the best era in heavyweight history I would have him as my top heavyweight but have no problems with Louis being regarded as the greatest.

....Rocky NEVER LOST....

He did, it was just stricken from the records, Britkid had all the proof

My feelings on Marciano are he could conceivably be the greatest, but there is no way I would ever rate him anywhere near the top because his opposition was the worst of any long reigning champ in heavyweight history (including Joe Louis). Seriously look age of the only names on his resume, and the records of the other guys he fought.

Can't hold that against him too much becuase very few heavyweights in history fought great opposition, I would suggest the following guys fought the best opposition (in their prime and not in order)

Frazier
Foreman
Ali
Lewis
Holyfield

[El Kabong]

OK guys if my OPINION is wrong would you please tell me what my OPINION should be.


Listen the guys who had the most success in their careers JOE LOUIS, ROCKY MARCIANO, then ALI. I'm not having them hypothetically fight each other, I'm not judging their competition because they couldn't help that. Who's to say if Ali was fighting today that he'd do any better than Larry Donald or Chris Byrd.....yes that's pretty freaking crazy, however, it's a thought do to the simple size difference between the eras.


2 people have Mike Tyson in the top 10...and I get attacked

[MIKAY]

OK guys if my OPINION is wrong would you please tell me what my OPINION should be.


Listen the guys who had the most success in their careers JOE LOUIS, ROCKY MARCIANO, then ALI. I'm not having them hypothetically fight each other, I'm not judging their competition because they couldn't help that. Who's to say if Ali was fighting today that he'd do any better than Larry Donald or Chris Byrd.....yes that's pretty freaking crazy, however, it's a thought do to the simple size difference between the eras.


2 people have Mike Tyson in the top 10...and I get attacked

Its all good, thats your opinion, stop going on about it, no ones trying to change your opinion so stop trying to make it look like that. I think your just looking for an argument which is quite sad truth be told.

In my opinion i wouldnt have Marciano in the top 20 never mind top 3 imoa but there you go its my opinion.

Personally i thin ali's win againts forman outdoes anything that marciano did in his whole career combined imoa

[El Kabong]

Its all good, thats your opinion, stop going on about it, no ones trying to change your opinion so stop trying to make it look like that. I think your just looking for an argument which is quite sad truth be told.

In my opinion i wouldnt have Marciano in the top 20 never mind top 3 imoa but there you go its my opinion.

Personally i thin ali's win againts forman outdoes anything that marciano did in his whole career combined imoa

Posters wouldn't make a huge deal about my rankings if they didn't want them changed.


Your ratings and your opinions are fine.....you just have a very poor arguement.



BigH, I judged my list based on a fighter's entire career not just their primes...I think "prime" is a very vague word consider George Foreman and Evander Holyfield you can't really find ONE long stretch where they were "in their primes" they had spurts of being good and then being great and then going back to just being good, etc. Mike Tyson was a great fighter but he isn't in my top 10, it's nothing against Mike but he didn't keep his top form for very long, especially when you compare him to Louis, Marciano, Ali, Foreman, and Holmes

[Master]

[quote=Lyle;516045]

Its all good, thats your opinion, stop going on about it, no ones trying to change your opinion so stop trying to make it look like that. I think your just looking for an argument which is quite sad truth be told.

In my opinion i wouldnt have Marciano in the top 20 never mind top 3 imoa but there you go its my opinion.

Personally i thin ali's win againts forman outdoes anything that marciano did in his whole career combined imoa

Posters wouldn't make a huge deal about my rankings if they didn't want them changed.


Your ratings and your opinions are fine.....you just have a very poor arguement.

Lyle no one is trying to change your opinion but the reason why you perceive that everyone is trying to change your opinion is that your argument is open to criticism and you fail to recognise it. From someone who is a very good poster, you seem blinkered that your reasoning stands up to scrutiny but unfortunately it does not.

Ali was the best heavyweight ever and you do have to be a sheep to admit that. His record speaks for itself, he had an unbelievable chin, excellent jab, heart of a lion, beat 3 great heavyweight champions, and he inspired more people around the world and transcended boxing like no other fighter has ever done.

[El Kabong]

Lyle no one is trying to change your opinion but the reason why you perceive that everyone is trying to change your opinion is that your argument is open to criticism and you fail to recognise it. From someone who is a very good poster, you seem blinkered that your reasoning stands up to scrutiny but unfortunately it does not.

Ali was the best heavyweight ever and you do have to be a sheep to admit that. His record speaks for itself, he had an unbelievable chin, excellent jab, heart of a lion, beat 3 great heavyweight champions, and he inspired more people around the world and transcended boxing like no other fighter has ever done.

#1 Joe Louis - Max Baer, Jim Braddock, Max Schmelling, and Joe Walcott
Rocky Marciano - Ezzard Charles, Joe Walcott, and Joe Louis

#2 Joe and Rocky both had: Unbelieveable chins, hearts of lions, and inspired people.

#3 Joe Louis did more for this country than Ali could EVER do and that's not said because I don't agree with Ali's politics, it's said because Joe Louis really did do so much for this country and for his people.

I think what everyone needs to realize is I am not taking Ali's achievements down a peg it's I think Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano's accomplishments are THAT good....it doesn't diminish what Ali did. I never said Ali wasn't great, I never said anything bad about him but I get lectured to like I have just taken a big steaming crap on his legacy and that's not the case at all.

[Beanflicker]

Rocky Marciano - Ezzard Charles, Joe Walcott, and Joe Louis

Yeah and how old/far into their careers were those guys when Marciano beat them?

[BIG H]

OK guys if my OPINION is wrong would you please tell me what my OPINION should be.


Listen the guys who had the most success in their careers JOE LOUIS, ROCKY MARCIANO, then ALI. I'm not having them hypothetically fight each other, I'm not judging their competition because they couldn't help that. Who's to say if Ali was fighting today that he'd do any better than Larry Donald or Chris Byrd.....yes that's pretty freaking crazy, however, it's a thought do to the simple size difference between the eras.


2 people have Mike Tyson in the top 10...and I get attacked

I hear what you are saying and it is all hyperthetical.

Regards the Tyson in the top 10. Lyle I cannot belive that after the Spinks fight you would not have had Tyson top 10, becuase I doubt there is a boxing fan in the world that would not have had Tyson a top 10 of all time at that point. If you did then you have to have him there now aswell, because that was his prime and that's where the lists is judged and not with the benefit of hindsight