Calzaghe dismisses Pavlik fight!

[OumaFan]

From a legacy point of view of course Calzaghe wants to face Roy Jones.

If he fights and beats him then he's beaten America's best fighter of the past 20 years in Jones, and the most dominant in Hopkins.

You guys who say that Pavlik would be a bigger fight or a better name on his resume are deluded.

The only way Pavlik would be a big name is if he BEAT Joe.

If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory.

People have already dismissed his wins over Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins so why would it be any different if he beat Pavlik?

Like everyone here I'd love to see the fight, but clearly it makes far more sense for Joe to fight the biggest superstar in boxing of the past 20 years even if he is past his best.

Jones is a first ballot hall of famer, a boxing legend and a name that is guaranteed to go down in history.

Pavlik, if he lost to Calzaghe, would merely have been a belt holder.

It's a no brainer for Joe.

Bilbo, what are you on about now ? Seriously.

Legacy wise a win would have been huge over Jones if he actually had any legs and didn't look almost completely shot. I don't know, maybe there are some who will still think this would be some kind of big win. The fact that pretty much everyone here accepts that Pavlik would be a tougher fight says something though.

But the bigger problem with this post is you act like Pavlik is going to retire after the Calzaghe fight.

"If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory."

Is he never going to fight again You have no idea what Pavlik will accomplish after the Calzaghe fight. He may go on to have a few more good/great wins and legacy wise it will have just been that he lost to a better more experienced fighter in Calzaghe. And Calzaghe will be seen as having a very good win at the end of his career over a young, stong, prime fighter. Or maybe not, the point is you and I have no idea what Pavlik is going to do so to say that Calzaghe would have beat a guy who only beat Taylor is bizarre.

And the win over Lacy has been diminished because for one it was just such a mismatch (not the case with Kessler and Hopkins and hence they haven't been diminished as much) and two Lacy has looked horrible his last two fights against lesser opposition, give or take a shoulder problem.

What I'm saying is that Calzaghe, in wanting to fight Jones Jr is trying to cement his legacy with a win over a a proven Hall of Famer.

In the long run that IS what people will remember most.

Look at Lennox Lewis, his most famous wins are against past their primes Tyson and Holyfield. Aside from that he's famous for his two losses.

How many people remember Roberto Duran for his fine win over the unbeaten world champ Davy Moore?

How many people remember Trevor Berbick for anything other than his wins over Ali and his loss to Tyson?

When people think of Michael Spinks what do they think of? My guess is his distruction at the hands of Tyson and American fans will also remember his wins over Larry Holmes.

Beating an all time great DOES make your resume, whether the opponent is past his best or not.

Jones Jr was the undisputed best fighter on the planet for many years. He was a boxing superstar and is an absolute legend of the sport.

What fighter in the world wouldn't want to have his name on their resume?

So what that he's past his best he's still by far the biggest name in boxing from 160 to heavyweight.

To suggest that Calzaghe would benefit more from a fight with Pavlik is just absurd.

As has already been mentioned a fight with Pavlik couldn't even be sold as a PPV. A Jones Jr fight would be far bigger. It would make Calzahge more money. It would be the biggest fight on his resume by far.

Like you, I'd rather see him fight Pavlik, I think it would be a more competitive fight and more meaningful to the boxing situation right now, but if I was in Calzaghe's shoes without hesitation I'd want Roy Jones.

Pavlik thus far hasn't done anything. He's beaten Jermain Taylor twice but he's nowhere near being a Hall of Famer just yet. If Calzaghe beat him, and then he lost his next fight, then he was just a belt holder, yesterdays news.

Let me ask you this, should Calzaghe fight Jermain Taylor? Would that be a huge legacy defining win? We both know the answer is no. Taylor has been defeated twice by Pavlik, once by knockout and so is no longer considered the future of the middleweight division. A win over him wouldn't matter that much.

Well, if Calzaghe fought and defeated Pavlik, the situation would be no different. Pavlik's status would be restrospectively downgraded and people would just say he was a technically limited fighter.

That's why every fighter likes to fight a legend. A legend can't be 'exposed', they can't have their past exploits and glories erased, they have already achieved. They have already proven themselves and so a win over any of them is a big deal.

If Calzaghe beats Jones Jr it's in the history books, whether he was past his best or not.

Look through past history, the only names that stick in your memory regarding any fighter are their wins over big stars.

Who remembers Randy Turpin for something other than his win over Robinson?

Who rememebers Hector Camacho for something other than his win over Ray Leonard?

Iran Barkely is famous for his win over Hearns and loss to Duran.

I'm not talking about hardcore fans here, I'm talking about the general sporting fan's consciousness.

In the final analysis Calzaghe would be remembered MUCH MUCH MUCH more for a win over Roy Jones Jr than he would ove Kelly Pavlik.

Maybe I should just never argue with you because if I do I'm forced to read your ridiculously long posts, I just don't have the attention span.

I don't agree with most of your examples. Randy Turpin beat SRR but that wasn't a shot SRR. Nobody cares that Joey Archer beat SRR in his last fight, it wasn't the same SRR just like it wouldn't be the same Roy. How many of us would even know Joey Archer's name if it wasn't for going through SRR's record on boxrec? Iran Barkley didn't beat a shot Hearns. And I have no idea where you're going with the Camacho reference, the SRL win did not make him famous. Berbick was more famous just for the Tyson loss as people know the win over Ali didn't really matter.

Also I guess were talking about two things, being known to the public and having a legacy boxing wise. Lennox (although he was already known) fighting Tyson may have done something for his exposure but it won't make a difference to people when they rate him as a heavyweight. Just like twenty years from now people will just say that Calzaghe beat a shot Roy when he could have been fighting a prime fighter in Pavlik. It won't kill his legacy since he's already got one but it won't help.

As far as getting him more exposure, maybe so. I don't know how much exposure it will get him in Britain as I don't live there and don't know how famous he is already. In America, I doubt it will make that much of a difference. Joe's come on to late and he'll never be a big name here. Also Roy isn't the Roy of 4 years ago as a fighter or a name, Floyd's the name now, hell most people haven't even seen Roy's last two fights. He's off the radar now, I'm not saying his name recognition won't help sell the fight a bit but its light years apart from say Tyson fighting Lewis. Can't be compared.

I could say more but that's a ridiculously long post as it is, even longer than yours that I was complaining about.

[Youngblood]

Bilbo, what are you on about now ? Seriously.

Legacy wise a win would have been huge over Jones if he actually had any legs and didn't look almost completely shot. I don't know, maybe there are some who will still think this would be some kind of big win. The fact that pretty much everyone here accepts that Pavlik would be a tougher fight says something though.

But the bigger problem with this post is you act like Pavlik is going to retire after the Calzaghe fight.

"If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory."

Is he never going to fight again You have no idea what Pavlik will accomplish after the Calzaghe fight. He may go on to have a few more good/great wins and legacy wise it will have just been that he lost to a better more experienced fighter in Calzaghe. And Calzaghe will be seen as having a very good win at the end of his career over a young, stong, prime fighter. Or maybe not, the point is you and I have no idea what Pavlik is going to do so to say that Calzaghe would have beat a guy who only beat Taylor is bizarre.

And the win over Lacy has been diminished because for one it was just such a mismatch (not the case with Kessler and Hopkins and hence they haven't been diminished as much) and two Lacy has looked horrible his last two fights against lesser opposition, give or take a shoulder problem.

What I'm saying is that Calzaghe, in wanting to fight Jones Jr is trying to cement his legacy with a win over a a proven Hall of Famer.

In the long run that IS what people will remember most.

Look at Lennox Lewis, his most famous wins are against past their primes Tyson and Holyfield. Aside from that he's famous for his two losses.

How many people remember Roberto Duran for his fine win over the unbeaten world champ Davy Moore?

How many people remember Trevor Berbick for anything other than his wins over Ali and his loss to Tyson?

When people think of Michael Spinks what do they think of? My guess is his distruction at the hands of Tyson and American fans will also remember his wins over Larry Holmes.

Beating an all time great DOES make your resume, whether the opponent is past his best or not.

Jones Jr was the undisputed best fighter on the planet for many years. He was a boxing superstar and is an absolute legend of the sport.

What fighter in the world wouldn't want to have his name on their resume?

So what that he's past his best he's still by far the biggest name in boxing from 160 to heavyweight.

To suggest that Calzaghe would benefit more from a fight with Pavlik is just absurd.

As has already been mentioned a fight with Pavlik couldn't even be sold as a PPV. A Jones Jr fight would be far bigger. It would make Calzahge more money. It would be the biggest fight on his resume by far.

Like you, I'd rather see him fight Pavlik, I think it would be a more competitive fight and more meaningful to the boxing situation right now, but if I was in Calzaghe's shoes without hesitation I'd want Roy Jones.

Pavlik thus far hasn't done anything. He's beaten Jermain Taylor twice but he's nowhere near being a Hall of Famer just yet. If Calzaghe beat him, and then he lost his next fight, then he was just a belt holder, yesterdays news.

Let me ask you this, should Calzaghe fight Jermain Taylor? Would that be a huge legacy defining win? We both know the answer is no. Taylor has been defeated twice by Pavlik, once by knockout and so is no longer considered the future of the middleweight division. A win over him wouldn't matter that much.

Well, if Calzaghe fought and defeated Pavlik, the situation would be no different. Pavlik's status would be restrospectively downgraded and people would just say he was a technically limited fighter.

That's why every fighter likes to fight a legend. A legend can't be 'exposed', they can't have their past exploits and glories erased, they have already achieved. They have already proven themselves and so a win over any of them is a big deal.

If Calzaghe beats Jones Jr it's in the history books, whether he was past his best or not.

Look through past history, the only names that stick in your memory regarding any fighter are their wins over big stars.

Who remembers Randy Turpin for something other than his win over Robinson?

Who rememebers Hector Camacho for something other than his win over Ray Leonard?

Iran Barkely is famous for his win over Hearns and loss to Duran.

I'm not talking about hardcore fans here, I'm talking about the general sporting fan's consciousness.

In the final analysis Calzaghe would be remembered MUCH MUCH MUCH more for a win over Roy Jones Jr than he would ove Kelly Pavlik.

Maybe I should just never argue with you because if I do I'm forced to read your ridiculously long posts, I just don't have the attention span.

I don't agree with most of your examples. Randy Turpin beat SRR but that wasn't a shot SRR. Nobody cares that Joey Archer beat SRR in his last fight, it wasn't the same SRR just like it wouldn't be the same Roy. How many of us would even know Joey Archer's name if it wasn't for going through SRR's record on boxrec? Iran Barkley didn't beat a shot Hearns. And I have no idea where you're going with the Camacho reference, the SRL win did not make him famous. Berbick was more famous just for the Tyson loss as people know the win over Ali didn't really matter.

Also I guess were talking about two things, being known to the public and having a legacy boxing wise. Lennox (although he was already known) fighting Tyson may have done something for his exposure but it won't make a difference to people when they rate him as a heavyweight. Just like twenty years from now people will just say that Calzaghe beat a shot Roy when he could have been fighting a prime fighter in Pavlik. It won't kill his legacy since he's already got one but it won't help.

As far as getting him more exposure, maybe so. I don't know how much exposure it will get him in Britain as I don't live there and don't know how famous he is already. In America, I doubt it will make that much of a difference. Joe's come on to late and he'll never be a big name here. Also Roy isn't the Roy of 4 years ago as a fighter or a name, Floyd's the name now, hell most people haven't even seen Roy's last two fights. He's off the radar now, I'm not saying his name recognition won't help sell the fight a bit but its light years apart from say Tyson fighting Lewis. Can't be compared.

I could say more but that's a ridiculously long post as it is, even longer than yours that I was complaining about.

tl;dr

[HattonTheHammer]

Bilbo, what are you on about now ? Seriously.

Legacy wise a win would have been huge over Jones if he actually had any legs and didn't look almost completely shot. I don't know, maybe there are some who will still think this would be some kind of big win. The fact that pretty much everyone here accepts that Pavlik would be a tougher fight says something though.

But the bigger problem with this post is you act like Pavlik is going to retire after the Calzaghe fight.

"If Calzaghe fights Pavlik and wins, then all Pavlik did was beat Taylor and defend against a nobody in Gary Lockett. His legacy won't be that impressive in hindsight so Calzaghe won't gain much from the victory."

Is he never going to fight again You have no idea what Pavlik will accomplish after the Calzaghe fight. He may go on to have a few more good/great wins and legacy wise it will have just been that he lost to a better more experienced fighter in Calzaghe. And Calzaghe will be seen as having a very good win at the end of his career over a young, stong, prime fighter. Or maybe not, the point is you and I have no idea what Pavlik is going to do so to say that Calzaghe would have beat a guy who only beat Taylor is bizarre.

And the win over Lacy has been diminished because for one it was just such a mismatch (not the case with Kessler and Hopkins and hence they haven't been diminished as much) and two Lacy has looked horrible his last two fights against lesser opposition, give or take a shoulder problem.

What I'm saying is that Calzaghe, in wanting to fight Jones Jr is trying to cement his legacy with a win over a a proven Hall of Famer.

In the long run that IS what people will remember most.

Look at Lennox Lewis, his most famous wins are against past their primes Tyson and Holyfield. Aside from that he's famous for his two losses.

How many people remember Roberto Duran for his fine win over the unbeaten world champ Davy Moore?

How many people remember Trevor Berbick for anything other than his wins over Ali and his loss to Tyson?

When people think of Michael Spinks what do they think of? My guess is his distruction at the hands of Tyson and American fans will also remember his wins over Larry Holmes.

Beating an all time great DOES make your resume, whether the opponent is past his best or not.

Jones Jr was the undisputed best fighter on the planet for many years. He was a boxing superstar and is an absolute legend of the sport.

What fighter in the world wouldn't want to have his name on their resume?

So what that he's past his best he's still by far the biggest name in boxing from 160 to heavyweight.

To suggest that Calzaghe would benefit more from a fight with Pavlik is just absurd.

As has already been mentioned a fight with Pavlik couldn't even be sold as a PPV. A Jones Jr fight would be far bigger. It would make Calzahge more money. It would be the biggest fight on his resume by far.

Like you, I'd rather see him fight Pavlik, I think it would be a more competitive fight and more meaningful to the boxing situation right now, but if I was in Calzaghe's shoes without hesitation I'd want Roy Jones.

Pavlik thus far hasn't done anything. He's beaten Jermain Taylor twice but he's nowhere near being a Hall of Famer just yet. If Calzaghe beat him, and then he lost his next fight, then he was just a belt holder, yesterdays news.

Let me ask you this, should Calzaghe fight Jermain Taylor? Would that be a huge legacy defining win? We both know the answer is no. Taylor has been defeated twice by Pavlik, once by knockout and so is no longer considered the future of the middleweight division. A win over him wouldn't matter that much.

Well, if Calzaghe fought and defeated Pavlik, the situation would be no different. Pavlik's status would be restrospectively downgraded and people would just say he was a technically limited fighter.

That's why every fighter likes to fight a legend. A legend can't be 'exposed', they can't have their past exploits and glories erased, they have already achieved. They have already proven themselves and so a win over any of them is a big deal.

If Calzaghe beats Jones Jr it's in the history books, whether he was past his best or not.

Look through past history, the only names that stick in your memory regarding any fighter are their wins over big stars.

Who remembers Randy Turpin for something other than his win over Robinson?

Who rememebers Hector Camacho for something other than his win over Ray Leonard?

Iran Barkely is famous for his win over Hearns and loss to Duran.

I'm not talking about hardcore fans here, I'm talking about the general sporting fan's consciousness.

In the final analysis Calzaghe would be remembered MUCH MUCH MUCH more for a win over Roy Jones Jr than he would ove Kelly Pavlik.

Maybe I should just never argue with you because if I do I'm forced to read your ridiculously long posts, I just don't have the attention span.

I don't agree with most of your examples. Randy Turpin beat SRR but that wasn't a shot SRR. Nobody cares that Joey Archer beat SRR in his last fight, it wasn't the same SRR just like it wouldn't be the same Roy. How many of us would even know Joey Archer's name if it wasn't for going through SRR's record on boxrec? Iran Barkley didn't beat a shot Hearns. And I have no idea where you're going with the Camacho reference, the SRL win did not make him famous. Berbick was more famous just for the Tyson loss as people know the win over Ali didn't really matter.

Also I guess were talking about two things, being known to the public and having a legacy boxing wise. Lennox (although he was already known) fighting Tyson may have done something for his exposure but it won't make a difference to people when they rate him as a heavyweight. Just like twenty years from now people will just say that Calzaghe beat a shot Roy when he could have been fighting a prime fighter in Pavlik. It won't kill his legacy since he's already got one but it won't help.

As far as getting him more exposure, maybe so. I don't know how much exposure it will get him in Britain as I don't live there and don't know how famous he is already. In America, I doubt it will make that much of a difference. Joe's come on to late and he'll never be a big name here. Also Roy isn't the Roy of 4 years ago as a fighter or a name, Floyd's the name now, hell most people haven't even seen Roy's last two fights. He's off the radar now, I'm not saying his name recognition won't help sell the fight a bit but its light years apart from say Tyson fighting Lewis. Can't be compared.

I could say more but that's a ridiculously long post as it is, even longer than yours that I was complaining about.

I think JC recognised long ago he would never gain the recognition he deserves stateside (which if were all entirely honest is vital to a boxers legacy) and that his own little way of making his own legacy would be through picking off a couple of shot fighters late on and retiring undefeated with a perfect record.

There are many different arguments as to why this has come about. Some will say JC never took that big risk of going over to america 5-6 years back therefore its his own fault. Others will use the logic that his fighting style and method never made him a big hit amongst the big US tv companys and was therefore shunned upon.

Fighting pavlik would never of answered these particular questions. But it would of allowed JC to prove himself unquestionably as the king of the middle divisions and that in itself would probably of been enough to cement his status for a good while.

Why he hasnt chose to go down this route who knows??

Maybe the lack of those big "superfights" has left calzaghe with a burning desire to rack up a few extra bucks by fighting the golden boys of yesteryear rather than those currently enjoying their run at the top.

Whatever it comes down to, love him or hate him you just cannot argue with 45-0 and a decade of world championship defences!!

[LondonBB]

And so it comes to pass that my exact prediction i made (on this site) is yet again coming into fruition

I predicted that joe beats kessler, people will still doubt him.

Then joe will beat hopkins, people will still doubt.

Then joe will beat pavlik and people will still hate and doubt.

Then joe will beat jones and people will still hate.

I think joe will fight both pavlik and jones. I think he will beat them both.

He will then retire with a record of 47,0,0 and the greatest fighter of this generation after having fought and won against the likes of mitchell, eubank, reid, lacy, kessler, hopkins, pavlik and jones.

Been totally undefeated for 11-12 years, undisputed champ at 2 weights and beaten everyone out there, on home shores and in usa.

And heres the funny bit...even after he does all this, people will hate on him, call him a slapper, brawler, no power blah blah...pmsl...WAKE UP...THIS IS JOE CALZAGHE 45,0,0 WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LOL.

Pmsl at the way people put roy jones ahead of calzaghe in the 'hall of fame super middleweight spot' when jones had all of 3 fights at that weight, and only 1 good fighter...yet joe is the champ for 11 whole years at that weight and beats everyone out there, good and bad but people dont put him as the hall of fame greatest supermiddleweight, its truly laughable and pittyful.

In the end i think joe is doing this for money. He will fight both jones and pavlik and beat them both.

I wonder what the excuse will be when he beats pavlik? Itll be the same as the excuse was about lacy and kessler.

The excuse about jones will be that hes a shadow of his former self (and he isnt as good as he once was either, i totally agree on that), but if joe beats him, the records show who is the best anyway. The records dont lie.

End of the day, joe will fight both and beat both, i think this iswhat will happen.

Id like to see him fight pavlik next, win that one in las vegas and then fight jones as a farewell (to both fighters) in cardiff with 70,000 fans watching live at the stadium...it will also be a world record number of fans for two legendary fighters finally facing each other...both fighters totally respect each other, it will almost be like rocky balboa vs appollo creed in the end of rocky 3 when they start boxing each other as friends and mutual respect in the ring. This fight shouldve happened years ago but it didnt, jones didnt want it, so let it happen as the pair of them's last fight.

I know 90% of people on the forum will want to see joe lose against pavlik and jones, but the fact is that YOU STILL DONT GET IT DO YOU LOL...Calzaghe wont lose because he is JOE CALZAGHE...He is the best.

Forget speed, power, stamina whatever, there is one thing that makes a boxer a true legend (ali had it, jones had it, robinson had it, leonard had it, hagler had it)...RINGCRAFT!

When someone has RINGCRAFT they can win a fight despite any other ability or lack of ability.

Like a footballer such as maradonna was so incredible, he had the craft, he could read the game and master the field.

Joe is the same, he overcame hopkins, someone else who posseses great craft in the ring but joe used his strongpoints to nullify hopkins and eventually took over.

Suprise suprise everyone wants him to lose...but suprise suprise even after he beats pavlik and jones and then has a list of:

47,0,0

Beaten:

mitchell
reid
eubank
lacy
kessler
hopkins
pavlik
jones

Undisputed champ for 12 years at 2 weights, ring magazine p4p number 1.

People will still doubt and hate

I know joe will fight pavlik, hes just doing this to make more money. Likewise hes gonna fight roy jones in cardiff aswell.

For any other fighter people start shouting 'no pavlik shouldnt face blah blah, hes not ready and has to prove himself first'...joe is the champ, joe is the one everyone wants to fight, so joe gets first choice. People arent queing to fight jones, pavlik, tarver etc, no one even gives a damn about chad dawson...they care about getting in the ring with joe calzaghe 45,0,0 undisputed ring mag champ at 2 weights for 11 whole years! Everyone wants to fight joe, just like roy jones jr could choose who he fights because everyone wanted to fight him...now it is joe calzaghe who is in that position, he is the great one, therefore he fights who he wants to fight.

When roy jones ducked calzaghe years ago, after calzaghe wanted to fight him (back in roys prime), where was all the criticism of roy jones? THERE WASNT ANY!

So why the double standard

Well...we know why the double standard, dont we? Because one word...'hate'...people love to hate calzaghe. Even though hes a v geniune and friendly guy, modest, well spoken and great for the sport...people hate him. Then you get a cocky arrogant foul mouthed money grabber called mayweather who isnt a particularly likeable guy and has very few fans who will follow him and pay to watch him in the stadium (they all follow hatton and de la hoya) but mayweather doesnt get stick on internet forums lol.

I think joe is playing the money game, he will fight both pavlik and jones, he wants to get the most money though, who can blame him afterall he is the 'in' commodity right now.

But even after he beats pavlik and jones, people will still hate and disrespect him.

However these peoplea opinions mean nothing, because the people who count are the ring magazine (i see people in here putting joe in at 7 or wherever in the top 10 p4p fighters, its laughable, they put cotto and pavlik higher lol)...the ring mag are who count, and the ring mag will give joe p4p number one and probably greatest fighter of the generation after he beats pavlik and jones...i couldnt care less what any internet armchair warrior thinks.

[GAME]

And so it comes to pass that my exact prediction i made (on this site) is yet again coming into fruition

I predicted that joe beats kessler, people will still doubt him.

Then joe will beat hopkins, people will still doubt.

Then joe will beat pavlik and people will still hate and doubt.

Then joe will beat jones and people will still hate.

I think joe will fight both pavlik and jones. I think he will beat them both.

He will then retire with a record of 47,0,0 and the greatest fighter of this generation after having fought and won against the likes of mitchell, eubank, reid, lacy, kessler, hopkins, pavlik and jones.

Been totally undefeated for 11-12 years, undisputed champ at 2 weights and beaten everyone out there, on home shores and in usa.

And heres the funny bit...even after he does all this, people will hate on him, call him a slapper, brawler, no power blah blah...pmsl...WAKE UP...THIS IS JOE CALZAGHE 45,0,0 WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LOL.

Pmsl at the way people put roy jones ahead of calzaghe in the 'hall of fame super middleweight spot' when jones had all of 3 fights at that weight, and only 1 good fighter...yet joe is the champ for 11 whole years at that weight and beats everyone out there, good and bad but people dont put him as the hall of fame greatest supermiddleweight, its truly laughable and pittyful.

In the end i think joe is doing this for money. He will fight both jones and pavlik and beat them both.

I wonder what the excuse will be when he beats pavlik? Itll be the same as the excuse was about lacy and kessler.

The excuse about jones will be that hes a shadow of his former self (and he isnt as good as he once was either, i totally agree on that), but if joe beats him, the records show who is the best anyway. The records dont lie.

End of the day, joe will fight both and beat both, i think this iswhat will happen.

Id like to see him fight pavlik next, win that one in las vegas and then fight jones as a farewell (to both fighters) in cardiff with 70,000 fans watching live at the stadium...it will also be a world record number of fans for two legendary fighters finally facing each other...both fighters totally respect each other, it will almost be like rocky balboa vs appollo creed in the end of rocky 3 when they start boxing each other as friends and mutual respect in the ring. This fight shouldve happened years ago but it didnt, jones didnt want it, so let it happen as the pair of them's last fight.

I know 90% of people on the forum will want to see joe lose against pavlik and jones, but the fact is that YOU STILL DONT GET IT DO YOU LOL...Calzaghe wont lose because he is JOE CALZAGHE...He is the best.

Forget speed, power, stamina whatever, there is one thing that makes a boxer a true legend (ali had it, jones had it, robinson had it, leonard had it, hagler had it)...RINGCRAFT!

When someone has RINGCRAFT they can win a fight despite any other ability or lack of ability.

Like a footballer such as maradonna was so incredible, he had the craft, he could read the game and master the field.

Joe is the same, he overcame hopkins, someone else who posseses great craft in the ring but joe used his strongpoints to nullify hopkins and eventually took over.

Suprise suprise everyone wants him to lose...but suprise suprise even after he beats pavlik and jones and then has a list of:

47,0,0

Beaten:

mitchell
reid
eubank
lacy
kessler
hopkins
pavlik
jones

Undisputed champ for 12 years at 2 weights, ring magazine p4p number 1.

People will still doubt and hate

I know joe will fight pavlik, hes just doing this to make more money. Likewise hes gonna fight roy jones in cardiff aswell.

For any other fighter people start shouting 'no pavlik shouldnt face blah blah, hes not ready and has to prove himself first'...joe is the champ, joe is the one everyone wants to fight, so joe gets first choice. People arent queing to fight jones, pavlik, tarver etc, no one even gives a damn about chad dawson...they care about getting in the ring with joe calzaghe 45,0,0 undisputed ring mag champ at 2 weights for 11 whole years! Everyone wants to fight joe, just like roy jones jr could choose who he fights because everyone wanted to fight him...now it is joe calzaghe who is in that position, he is the great one, therefore he fights who he wants to fight.

When roy jones ducked calzaghe years ago, after calzaghe wanted to fight him (back in roys prime), where was all the criticism of roy jones? THERE WASNT ANY!

So why the double standard

Well...we know why the double standard, dont we? Because one word...'hate'...people love to hate calzaghe. Even though hes a v geniune and friendly guy, modest, well spoken and great for the sport...people hate him. Then you get a cocky arrogant foul mouthed money grabber called mayweather who isnt a particularly likeable guy and has very few fans who will follow him and pay to watch him in the stadium (they all follow hatton and de la hoya) but mayweather doesnt get stick on internet forums lol.

I think joe is playing the money game, he will fight both pavlik and jones, he wants to get the most money though, who can blame him afterall he is the 'in' commodity right now.

But even after he beats pavlik and jones, people will still hate and disrespect him.

However these peoplea opinions mean nothing, because the people who count are the ring magazine (i see people in here putting joe in at 7 or wherever in the top 10 p4p fighters, its laughable, they put cotto and pavlik higher lol)...the ring mag are who count, and the ring mag will give joe p4p number one and probably greatest fighter of the generation after he beats pavlik and jones...i couldnt care less what any internet armchair warrior thinks.

Great post !

saved me the job

[mexirican]

When the time (money) is right Pavlik- Calzaghe will happen. Joe probably will beat RJJ. Though the fight will be close hell RJJ may ruin the Kelly-Joe hype.

[Pavlik]

When the time (money) is right Pavlik- Calzaghe will happen. Joe probably will beat RJJ. Though the fight will be close hell RJJ may ruin the Kelly-Joe hype.

Partly what I am thinking, what if RJJ did upset Calzaghe That would be embarrasing, Joe fighting the Ghost will Double cement his legacy, IF he wins.

[ross]

If Hopkins could catch Joe in the first round with a right hand and drop him Pavlik would find right hand after right hand and destroy him.Don't be surprised if Jones beats him.

Who has Hopkins NOT caught with his right hand? It's his best punch. Now Joe suddenly has a weakness for right hands? Your talking rubbish

Joe hasnt got so much a weakness to right hands, just his defence and head movement aint the greatest, he relies on his fitness and awkwardness, his opponents just cant keep up.

He was caught a few times fluch by Kessler and Reid was the only person to take him to a split decision purely from his overhand rights.

Pavlik is much like Kessler but more aggresive, he doesnt have Kesslers defence or chin though, it would be an exciting fight but Knowing full well that Pavlik is a puncher and has a good right, im sure hed be prepared for it.

I agree that Calzaghe just doesnt want anymore hard nights, he is 36 and is the most consistent fighter in a long time, 11 years as a champ, undefeated is a very long time, especially in a sport like boxing.

Joe wants cash and fame now, you cant blame him but if Pavlik really wants to shoot up the p4p rankings and be something special, offer Joe big money and let him fight in Wales where their would be a bigger gate by far, make him an offer he cant refuse.

[southakron314]

If Hopkins could catch Joe in the first round with a right hand and drop him Pavlik would find right hand after right hand and destroy him.Don't be surprised if Jones beats him.

Who has Hopkins NOT caught with his right hand? It's his best punch. Now Joe suddenly has a weakness for right hands? Your talking rubbish

Joe hasnt got so much a weakness to right hands, just his defence and head movement aint the greatest, he relies on his fitness and awkwardness, his opponents just cant keep up.

He was caught a few times fluch by Kessler and Reid was the only person to take him to a split decision purely from his overhand rights.

Pavlik is much like Kessler but more aggresive, he doesnt have Kesslers defence or chin though, it would be an exciting fight but Knowing full well that Pavlik is a puncher and has a good right, im sure hed be prepared for it.

I agree that Calzaghe just doesnt want anymore hard nights, he is 36 and is the most consistent fighter in a long time, 11 years as a champ, undefeated is a very long time, especially in a sport like boxing.

Joe wants cash and fame now, you cant blame him but if Pavlik really wants to shoot up the p4p rankings and be something special, offer Joe big money and let him fight in Wales where their would be a bigger gate by far, make him an offer he cant refuse.

Your right. His defense and Pav's chin are better. Pavlik would beat Andrade, Kessler , Bute and Calzaghe in my opionion. None of these guys have his conditioning, power , work rate ,and class.

[gudnite vienna]

lets not forget that Taylor made the 2nd fight with Pavlik very close.. i just think that Calzaghe would do wat JT did in the second fight but in an all round better way..

UD Calzaghe

[HattonTheHammer]

lets not forget that Taylor made the 2nd fight with Pavlik very close.. i just think that Calzaghe would do wat JT did in the second fight but in an all round better way..

UD Calzaghe

the same logic im sensing.

Youre not gonna out punch or outscore JC, To beat calzaghe youve gotta stop him and although pavlik has more than enough power i dont see him outwitting calzaghe and turning the fight into his kind of fight.

JC will work away at pavlik from angles and would look to trade as little as possible picking away and timing his counters with precision.

117-111 Calzaghe