Legion, do you have one of these in your collection?

[LEGION]

So Legion,

you'll keep a king cobra but no vipers? Plus, how the hell did you get involved with snakes? Are you a herpatologist and work at a zoo or something? And do you keep them in your house? What kinds do you have?

Personally, I think all exotic animals should be outlawed, because even though there are highly trained people out there, which I'll assume you are one of, the vast majority are those who aren't trained to handle them. Then they end up in the sewer system or whatever.

Your thoughts? (Educate me)

I'll try to break down your post

Yes, I will keep a king cobra over a viper anyday. I like elapids, not vipers. Just my preference. Actually more peole like vipers{especially arboreals} than they do elapids{cobras, kraits, etc.} I have had quite a few rattlesnakes and copperheads, etc., but they just sit there. They are ambush predators, so they tend to sit around and "wait" for their meals. Elapids are active, aggressive hunters, so they are more appealing to me in captivity, and it is fun watching them feed. It's all personal preference.

Also, I don't like the venom vipers have. Though all my cobras have more toxic venom, its composition is much different. I would rather get tagged by one of my cape cobras than say a rattlesnake. Most vipers have tissue destroying venom and having body parts rot off or having to have a fasciotomy to save a limb is not something I want to chance. I'd rather twitch to death and suffocate than watch my skin drip away. Most of my friends in the hobby think I'm stupid for that opinion, but so be it. I just don't like vipers.

I don't work at a zoo. I was catching rattlesnakes and moccasins or copperheads when I was a little kid. My parents thought I was crazy when I'd come home at 9 years old with a copperhead stuck in my backpack. As far as keeping exotic, I had some mentoring but most was just common sense and already having experience with dangerous reptiles from an early age. I keep mine in the house in a secured bedroom; in very secure, large cages. As far as you believing all exotics should be banned, I disagree{you know I would}. As long as you have the proper training and set-up, there should be no concern. Most of the people in this hobby are very particular who gets these animals, and you have to have references before 99% of them will entertain the idea of selling something to you. There are always people who get by these barriers, but there are always exceptions to the rules. There are plenty of groups trying to outlaw exotics, but that's fine, I'll just keep them illegally. Banning something doesn't stop it from happening and it just creates more problems in the long run; i.e. prohibition. abortion, etc. I'm not hurting anyone, I have my permits, and I'm responsible. I don't see the problem. I understand your concerns, but how often do you hear about somebody letting their venomous snakes go wild? It happens but most of them die within a month anyways. If you had a rottweiler and I didn't like it I shouldn't be able to have it taken from you because I saw some irresponsible owners. I do however believe there should be strict laws in heavily populated areas. I live in the country, no neighbors, but I could understand people's concerns in a suburban type setting.

Florida is where all venomous snakes are brought into the country at. There you have to have 1000 hours of mentoring before you can have a permit to keep them. There are thousands of keepers there, but yet there are rarely problems because of the precautions taken. The bad cases usually involve the pythons and boa constrictors. Anyone can buy one and when they get too big; they let them go. They can totally disrupt the eco system as it is placing a new predator into an already over taxed ecosystem. They are trying to ban, as we speak, all exotic constrictors. What they should do is simple: the same requirement that venomous keepers are beholding to.

Anyways, I have really gone off now, pheeeeew, sorry. Don't worry though Von Milash, I wasn't planning on askng you to spend the night with me Like I said, I'll keep them legally{which it is here in Texas} or illegally. F#ck the government. I'm not hurting anyone and I'm entitled to endanger my own life. Getting in my car going to the store is more dangerous IMO than having these animals. If I get bit, so be it; if I die I die.

[Von Milash]

ok, ok some valid pints. if you're well trained and have taken all the precautions, great. I can only hope that people out there are both responsible and sensible enough to not let an animal like this, ie deadly, get into the hands of a novice. as well, if you're in a rural area, even better. i guess as i see it, my bigger concern was endangering people in suburban settings. as you're surely very well aware, it only takes one little fuck up, then the handler is dead, the snake is out and some little kid is in trouble for playing in the park.

and yes, you hear far more tales of the constrictors causing harm. everyone handles them like they love their owner, and then wap, you're in a rear naked choke, tapping out. Trouble is, Big John McCarthy aint there to save your sorry ass.

[Von Milash]

one mroe question.


whose approach to handling snakes do you like (or approve of) more: Steve Irwin (ie, gently by the tail and with a branch) or Jeff Corwin (by the neck with his metal stick)?

I once saw that British guy (big red gotee) say something about how crazy handling them by means other than by the back of the neck was. He didn't outright mention Irwin, but you could kind of fill in the blanks and tell that he was refering to Irwin..

Ironically, that guy (name?) had been filmed gettig tagged and taken to the hospital and in deep trouble. Irwin, despite the freak accident with the ray, was never once bitten by a venomous snake.

[LEGION]

one mroe question.


whose approach to handling snakes do you like (or approve of) more: Steve Irwin (ie, gently by the tail and with a branch) or Jeff Corwin (by the neck with his metal stick)?

I once saw that British guy (big red gotee) say something about how crazy handling them by means other than by the back of the neck was. He didn't outright mention Irwin, but you could kind of fill in the blanks and tell that he was refering to Irwin..

Ironically, that guy (name?) had been filmed gettig tagged and taken to the hospital and in deep trouble. Irwin, despite the freak accident with the ray, was never once bitten by a venomous snake.

As far as handling, it really depends on the particular situation. You should always have a snake hook with you; though Irwin grew up improvising out in the bush and was an expert at handling some of the worst snakes in tight situations. The red goatee guy is Mark O' Shea and he shouldn't be talking, as he's gotten tagged a number of times.

I always use hooks and tailing methods to handle mine. But if I need to medicate a snake or soak it, etc.; I have to pin it and grab the head to control it. O Shea was just jelous because he never received the media attention Irwin did and was just running his gob. You have to know how to handle all situations so both methods are staples in the hobby.

Each snake is different. Cape cobras are notorious for being hard t ohandle, but my male is the easiest snake I've ever had to deal with. Will let me hook him without so much as a hiss, as long as I'm gentle. My egyptian cobra is the devil and you better be on your toes as he will climb the hook and has his mouth open at all times, just waiting to grab something. Forest cobras are the worse and they will chase you across the room and it is quite unnerving; knowing how to control them with a hook is paramount. I could go on and on but I won't.

[Andre]

So do any of our deadly snakes out here hunt through the night in the warmer months?

[LEGION]

Whether they hunt all through the night tbh I forget. I know the coastal taipan and brown snakes will hunt late into the night, but you don't have coastals in your area. The death adder is an ambush predator and will sit in the same place for weeks; so though they aren't active hunters you might step on one at night; though I think where you are the deathies aren't real numerous if they are there at all. Copperheads tend to stay near water but aren't active at night if I remember rightly, though they can tolerate very low tepmeratures for a snake and may be active at night, though they hunt all day in or near the water. The red-bellied black and king brown I don't even know. Tigers are also known to be active at night; so you definately need to watch for them.

[Andre]

Puts an end to my night nuddie runs then.

[Kev]

one mroe question.


whose approach to handling snakes do you like (or approve of) more: Steve Irwin (ie, gently by the tail and with a branch) or Jeff Corwin (by the neck with his metal stick)?

I once saw that British guy (big red gotee) say something about how crazy handling them by means other than by the back of the neck was. He didn't outright mention Irwin, but you could kind of fill in the blanks and tell that he was refering to Irwin..

Ironically, that guy (name?) had been filmed gettig tagged and taken to the hospital and in deep trouble. Irwin, despite the freak accident with the ray, was never once bitten by a venomous snake.

That's Mark O'Shea I used to love watching him, weird little skinny fella who would leap topless out of his canoo into some minging swampland disappear under water and pull out a 30 ft long Anaconda. That dude was crazy!

[LEGION]

one mroe question.


whose approach to handling snakes do you like (or approve of) more: Steve Irwin (ie, gently by the tail and with a branch) or Jeff Corwin (by the neck with his metal stick)?

I once saw that British guy (big red gotee) say something about how crazy handling them by means other than by the back of the neck was. He didn't outright mention Irwin, but you could kind of fill in the blanks and tell that he was refering to Irwin..

Ironically, that guy (name?) had been filmed gettig tagged and taken to the hospital and in deep trouble. Irwin, despite the freak accident with the ray, was never once bitten by a venomous snake.

That's Mark O'Shea I used to love watching him, weird little skinny fella who would leap topless out of his canoo into some minging swampland disappear under water and pull out a 30 ft long Anaconda. That dude was crazy!

I already told him it was Mark O' Shea He is very respected in the reptile community, though him telling people his method is the only way is dumb, seeing as how he has been bitten several times. There is a vid on youtube of O 'Shea almost getting whacked by a zebra cobra, a fairly new identified species.

[Kev]

one mroe question.


whose approach to handling snakes do you like (or approve of) more: Steve Irwin (ie, gently by the tail and with a branch) or Jeff Corwin (by the neck with his metal stick)?

I once saw that British guy (big red gotee) say something about how crazy handling them by means other than by the back of the neck was. He didn't outright mention Irwin, but you could kind of fill in the blanks and tell that he was refering to Irwin..

Ironically, that guy (name?) had been filmed gettig tagged and taken to the hospital and in deep trouble. Irwin, despite the freak accident with the ray, was never once bitten by a venomous snake.

That's Mark O'Shea I used to love watching him, weird little skinny fella who would leap topless out of his canoo into some minging swampland disappear under water and pull out a 30 ft long Anaconda. That dude was crazy!

I already told him it was Mark O' Shea He is very respected in the reptile community, though him telling people his method is the only way is dumb, seeing as how he has been bitten several times. There is a vid on youtube of O 'Shea almost getting whacked by a zebra cobra, a fairly new identified species.

I must admit I find the fact that you socialise within the reptile community quite endearing. It's nice to have a quirky slightly eccentric interest I think.

[LEGION]

That's Mark O'Shea I used to love watching him, weird little skinny fella who would leap topless out of his canoo into some minging swampland disappear under water and pull out a 30 ft long Anaconda. That dude was crazy!

I already told him it was Mark O' Shea He is very respected in the reptile community, though him telling people his method is the only way is dumb, seeing as how he has been bitten several times. There is a vid on youtube of O 'Shea almost getting whacked by a zebra cobra, a fairly new identified species.

I must admit I find the fact that you socialise within the reptile community quite endearing. It's nice to have a quirky slightly eccentric interest I think.

I know you find it amusing and rather odd, but we all have different interests. Snakes are mine; seeing how much semen you can't drink in one night is yours

Seriously Bilb's, alot of diseases are going to be cured once the unlock all the secrets of venom. Some south american vipers venom is already being used in cancer patients; hemophiliacs are starting to be helped with extracts from snakes such as the tiger snake, and Parkinson's will be cured through the use of venoms from snakes such as the Stokes, beaked sea snake, kraits. So those animals everyone hates may one day benefit them.



SOAPBOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LEGION]

ok, ok some valid pints. if you're well trained and have taken all the precautions, great. I can only hope that people out there are both responsible and sensible enough to not let an animal like this, ie deadly, get into the hands of a novice. as well, if you're in a rural area, even better. i guess as i see it, my bigger concern was endangering people in suburban settings. as you're surely very well aware, it only takes one little fuck up, then the handler is dead, the snake is out and some little kid is in trouble for playing in the park.

and yes, you hear far more tales of the constrictors causing harm. everyone handles them like they love their owner, and then wap, you're in a rear naked choke, tapping out. Trouble is, Big John McCarthy aint there to save your sorry ass.

Most of the people that get into the venomous hobby don't do it light heartedly, so they tend to be very responsible. But, as I said, there are always exceptions to the rules; this is how life is. But just like banning breeds of dogs because a few owners f#ck, banning the keeping of venomous snakes because of a few idiots is taking away freedoms of people.

If people want to ban exotics, they might have started 1st with most all the dogs and cats in this country, as almost all breeds are not native to America. I breed pit bulls as well, and have been around them since I was a kid, and we have a saying: Punish the deed, not the breed. I'd rather petition to have cars and alcohol taken off the streets, as both cause so many deaths a year. But blaming a car or alcohol for deaths is kind of like blaming a shovel for digging a hole Where there are humans, human error is enevitable.

Thanks Von for giving me something to rattle on about