Ali, the dark side of his skill

[El Kabong]

Hello all, this will be sure to get me many of sad clicks but I don't give a fuck.

Ali had skill HOWEVER no one every likes to admit he used questionable tactics at times...most of the time actually.
Here is a list of his favorite illegal boxing moves: backhanding the jab, holding and hitting, and leaving his jab extended for defensive purposes.

Those are illegal, he should have been penalized a whole lot more than he was...in fact I don't EVER remember him being penalized, I remember him being warned 50-60 times about holding and hitting though.

And now these fighters get picked on for their tactics that are similar to Ali's: Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Wladimir Klitschko, Ricky Hatton, John Ruiz, Chris Byrd, Bernard Hopkins, Jermain Taylor, and the list goes on and on.

I just want to bring Ali down from the pedestal everyone has him on...he was skilled but he did bend and break rules but don't ever fucking tell me "___ is not Ali" like it's OK for Ali to do those things just because he is Ali and those guys won't ever be him.

[El Gamo]

What's your problem with Ali? How comes you did not mention him being Muslim this time? What is the purpose of this thread? Why do you have have to be such an uptight ass all the time?

[El Kabong]

What's your problem with Ali? How comes you did not mention him being Muslim this time? What is the purpose of this thread? Why do you have have to be such an uptight ass all the time?

I don't have a problem with Ali. I have a problem with people who blindly follow the guy and thought he did no wrong at all.

History has been VERY kind to Ali, maybe too kind to Ali. You seen the movie? Did he call Frazier an Uncle Tom in the movie? Nah, that wouldn't be good for the movie.

Yes Ali had incredible skill but when it comes to people saying "He could do that he's Ali" it's wrong, you know? It's preferential treatment in a FIGHT and if fights are fair then those tactics either fly or they don't....no one got the benefit of the doubt more than Ali.

I still have Ali on my all-time greats list, I only oppose his questionable tactics and the way he treated the people who were supposed to be his brothers during the civil rights movement is that wrong?

[p4pking]

I just want to bring Ali down from the pedestal everyone has him on...he was skilled but he did bend and break rules but don't ever F****** tell me "___ is not Ali" like it's OK for Ali to do those things just because he is Ali and those guys won't ever be him.

What is Ali the fucking flavour of the month?? Your an idiot, or just didn't think this out at all and have some extreme personal bias against Ali. In fact name one slick or skilled boxer/technician that you are a fan of. You only like sluggers from what I can tell. But anyways you can't bring Ali down from anything because everyone considers him the greatest and that is everyone, not even just boxing fans.. You probably think ur boy Wlad could beat ALi, or maybe Joe Mesi a few years ago.

[El Kabong]

You faggots are missing the point!

Ali is held on another level than everyone else and it's NOT ABOUT SKILL.

People rag on other fighters using the SAME things Ali used and every response to that is "____ is not Ali".

Ali had great skill I've said it before, I mean I never cared about him as a person but I respect his skill but if you don't think he BENT the rules like nobodies business you are mistaken.

This is not an "I hate Ali' thread it's a "Let's be realistic about Ali" thread.

[VictorCharlie]

I think all boxers push the limits of the rules in the ring, its just never worded as cheating. Its called being "cagey" and using veteran savy or something. I can think of several fighters that will do alot of the things you accused Ali of doing. If the ref is going to let you get away with it why not...if you aint cheating you aint trying and if you get caught then you werent trying hard enough.

[p4pking]

HEY NEWSFLASH LYLE:Noone said Ali was the greatest humanitarian of all time, and all those negative comments you bring up were said on television for the world to hear, everyone knows he was no saint.. This is a boxing forum as well....You are trying to convince us to think less of Ali because he wasn't that nice to his opponents or didn't join the military... Weird. THe point is you can't say one thing about his boxing ability because you know what he did and how dominant he was in the ring.. In all honesty, it seems like you are basing this on either race, religion, or his military dodging.. THat's what Id bet. Which is it. Was your daddy a soldier?

[El Kabong]

Examples

People get on Lewis for holding and hitting. "Ali did the same thing"....."Well, Lewis isn't Ali"

Wlad held too much...."Ali held for tactical purposes"...."Wlad isn't Ali"

Taylor backhands the jab ...."Ali backhanded the jab"...."Taylor isn't Ali"

THAT is what I'm talking about....how does being Ali make someone able to do those things without ridicule?

[El Kabong]

HEY NEWSFLASH LYLE:Noone said Ali was the greatest humanitarian of all time, and all those negative comments you bring up were said on television for the world to hear, everyone knows he was no saint.. This is a boxing forum as well....You are trying to convince us to think less of Ali because he wasn't that nice to his opponents or didn't join the military... Weird. THe point is you can't say one thing about his boxing ability because you know what he did and how dominant he was in the ring.. In all honesty, it seems like you are basing this on either race, religion, or his military dodging.. THat's what Id bet. Which is it. Was your daddy a soldier?  

I'm not trying to convince you that Ali was this or that for his views on Vietnam...I don't care about that in THIS thread!

My points are Ali is never looked down on for using questionable tactics during his fights and everyone else is ripped apart for it...it's ridiculous

[El Kabong]

I'm just saying paint Ali with the same brush that you have the other guys painted with....even if they aren't the same skill level which they probably won't be.

Be real about what Ali did in the ring...don't look past the questionable stuff and let it slide just because he's Ali

[clean]

Hello all, this will be sure to get me many of sad clicks but I don't give a F***.

Ali had skill HOWEVER no one every likes to admit he used questionable tactics at times...most of the time actually.
Here is a list of his favorite illegal boxing moves: backhanding the jab, holding and hitting, and leaving his jab extended for defensive purposes.

Those are illegal, he should have been penalized a whole lot more than he was...in fact I don't EVER remember him being penalized, I remember him being warned 50-60 times about holding and hitting though.

And now these fighters get picked on for their tactics that are similar to Ali's: Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Wladimir Klitschko, Ricky Hatton, John Ruiz, Chris Byrd, Bernard Hopkins, Jermain Taylor, and the list goes on and on.

I just want to bring Ali down from the pedestal everyone has him on...he was skilled but he did bend and break rules but don't ever F****** tell me "___ is not Ali" like it's OK for Ali to do those things just because he is Ali and those guys won't ever be him.

Even though I disagree with nearly everything here I won't sad click you. Of all the illegal tactics you mentioned, not one of them is significant in changing the tide of a fight, that's why they aren't enforced, like in every sport, there are rules that aren't enforced. Basketball, no one enforces players stepping over the line to get a rebound after a free-throw, because it is so insignificant, and it happens all the time. Furthermore you'll be hardpressed to find any of Ali's opponents who would actually say that any of what you mentioned really made a difference. It's not like leaving a jab extended is some inpenetrable forcefield that no one can get past. People don't have Ali on a pedestal because of what he did outside the ring, they have him as the greatest because they feel he was inside the ring.

[VictorCharlie]

man i've never really heard anyone make the comparisons of Ali and other fighters using dirty tactics like that. Every fighter hits during a clinch and at some point every fighter is usually accused of holding to much. If someone says "such and such isn't Ali" its probably not b/c they think they should have different rules apply its probably b/c that fighter isn't in the same league as Ali.

[BIG H]

Hello all, this will be sure to get me many of sad clicks but I don't give a F***.

Ali had skill HOWEVER no one every likes to admit he used questionable tactics at times...most of the time actually.
Here is a list of his favorite illegal boxing moves: backhanding the jab, holding and hitting, and leaving his jab extended for defensive purposes.

Those are illegal, he should have been penalized a whole lot more than he was...in fact I don't EVER remember him being penalized, I remember him being warned 50-60 times about holding and hitting though.

And now these fighters get picked on for their tactics that are similar to Ali's: Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Wladimir Klitschko, Ricky Hatton, John Ruiz, Chris Byrd, Bernard Hopkins, Jermain Taylor, and the list goes on and on.

I just want to bring Ali down from the pedestal everyone has him on...he was skilled but he did bend and break rules but don't ever F****** tell me "___ is not Ali" like it's OK for Ali to do those things just because he is Ali and those guys won't ever be him.

Even though I disagree with nearly everything here I won't sad click you. Of all the illegal tactics you mentioned, not one of them is significant in changing the tide of a fight, that's why they aren't enforced, like in every sport, there are rules that aren't enforced. Basketball, no one enforces players stepping over the line to get a rebound after a free-throw, because it is so insignificant, and it happens all the time. Furthermore you'll be hardpressed to find any of Ali's opponents who would actually say that any of what you mentioned really made a difference. It's not like leaving a jab extended is some inpenetrable forcefield that no one can get past. People don't have Ali on a pedestal because of what he did outside the ring, they have him as the greatest because they feel he was inside the ring.

Good post that mate

[El Kabong]

So if Lewis doesn't Hold and Hit Grant then he still KO's him that fast? If Ali doesn't hang on to Joe Frazier and hit him he still wins?

I'm just saying other people that do it get a ton of shit for it but Ali is perfect. All I want people to do is realize Ali was a fighter, just like Liston, just like Tyson, just like Dempsey...and he fought like it. So you are able to respect Ali by copying his tactics since he was "THE GREATEST" for most people...but you should also be able to not be complained about if you use those same tactics...is that better?

[El Kabong]

The SKILL is not the question here...well legit skill...Ali was a great boxer (a bit boring later in his career) but he was REALLY good at using the aforementioned tactics without being penalized or frowned upon (by most) and I don't frown upon them I just want everyone to either be able to use them or NOT be able to use them.