Jesse Jackson wants to cut Obama's nuts off

[Kirkland Laing]

The fact that the media are actually taking this whole McCain offshore drilling policy sseriously is a reflection on the general piss poor job they do of informing people what actually goes on in the world. Every article and report about the MvcCain campaign's offshore policy should contain in the first paragraph " Offshore drilling would have no effect on current oil prices and a negligible effect when the oil does come online a decade from now. It also wouldn't alter the current and future global oil supply shortage problem either even if all potential fields were fully exploited." Instead they take that shit seriously when it's total bs.

[El Kabong]

So if we were to strike oil like say BRAZIL did it would have no effect on oil prices?

If we were to build more refineries and produce more gasoline that would have no effect on prices?


Guys bomb pipelines in Nigeria and that bumps the price up but if we find and produce more oil the price will stay the same?!?!

That reasoning (if you can call it that) would mean that supply and demand have nothing to do with oil prices but actions like bombing pipelines have a lot to do with prices......oh and then there's that little deal where OPEC says it'll cut production therefore making the price go up due to the law of supply and demand.....but I suppose that's just a coincidence.


And OIL isn't the only thing worth drilling for Natural Gas is a big source of power which T. Boone Pickins wants us to use to supplement wind and solar power (because you need to supplement those kinds of power). But I suppose you don't figure they will find any of that here either.

Obama doesn't want ANY drilling and therefore we would be stuck waiting for the Energy Fairy to make us energy independent or have any remote effect on the price of oil......ooooh maybe he'll pull a Jimmy Carter and wear a sweater oh that would be awesome....and then maybe the government could control our thermostats....totally cool! Kirkland you think of everything, I should outsource my worries about the heat or cold to the government....what a load off my mind, now I can focus on important things like gun control and world peace

[Wayne]

So if we were to strike oil like say BRAZIL did it would have no effect on oil prices?

If we were to build more refineries and produce more gasoline that would have no effect on prices?


Guys bomb pipelines in Nigeria and that bumps the price up but if we find and produce more oil the price will stay the same?!?!

That reasoning (if you can call it that) would mean that supply and demand have nothing to do with oil prices but actions like bombing pipelines have a lot to do with prices......oh and then there's that little deal where OPEC says it'll cut production therefore making the price go up due to the law of supply and demand.....but I suppose that's just a coincidence.


And OIL isn't the only thing worth drilling for Natural Gas is a big source of power which T. Boone Pickins wants us to use to supplement wind and solar power (because you need to supplement those kinds of power). But I suppose you don't figure they will find any of that here either.

Obama doesn't want ANY drilling and therefore we would be stuck waiting for the Energy Fairy to make us energy independent or have any remote effect on the price of oil......ooooh maybe he'll pull a Jimmy Carter and wear a sweater oh that would be awesome....and then maybe the government could control our thermostats....totally cool! Kirkland you think of everything, I should outsource my worries about the heat or cold to the government....what a load off my mind, now I can focus on important things like gun control and world peace

T. Boone Pickens. If I'm not mistaken, the oil magnate just testified before Congress saying we have to diversify our energy resources. Right?

Offshore drilling would have an effect on prices here if said oil were only sold here. China has only increased its demand as every country has done, except they've been doing it exponentially. There's a company in Russia that has either begun or increased its oil production because China said they'd buy whatever these guys sucked up. So it's more like China's buying whatever's available rather than there being an additional supply for anyone to come along and purchase. More money for American oil companies does little to nothing for the bulk of the American population. That's just as big a phallacy as buying "American" cars. The point is we need to diversify energy resources and if wind and solar aren't enough other things need to be looked at. Are you paying more or less at the pump than you were a year ago? Why would you think the company that has already reemed you for years is now ready to start drilling someplace new to benefit you? In an economy that is near or at another recession and they're still posting stunning profits why in the world would anyone believe that? The drop in prices recently is only a temporary reprieve for what is coming. Prices are only going to go up with these brief temporary drops before leaping increases. If your solution is to just drill more then you deserve what you get. What's wrong with seriously considering at least moving away partially from oil?

[Wayne]

So if we were to strike oil like say BRAZIL did it would have no effect on oil prices?

Doesn't the government of Brazil own the oil companies? "We" won't strike it rich on anything.

[El Kabong]

Doesn't the government of Brazil own the oil companies? "We" won't strike it rich on anything.

Free market buddy....nationalization is for suckers!

Say the US nationalizes oil fields well #1 we don't produce enough and we consume a ton #2 OPEC would shit a brick and the price goes up.

Say the US just discovers a ton of oil and we sell to the highest bidder #1 if we produce more oil then the supply hits the market and more supply = lower prices #2 The companies we would have drilling here are US owned and opperated and therefore taxed by the US government and therefore the American people get benefits from finding and producing oil here even if we don't get to use all of it.

Brazil IS energy independent though and why? Because they drilled and found a gigantic amount of oil....it could happen to us

[Wayne]

Doesn't the government of Brazil own the oil companies? "We" won't strike it rich on anything.

Free market buddy....nationalization is for suckers!

Say the US nationalizes oil fields well #1 we don't produce enough and we consume a ton #2 OPEC would shit a brick and the price goes up.

Say the US just discovers a ton of oil and we sell to the highest bidder #1 if we produce more oil then the supply hits the market and more supply = lower prices #2 The companies we would have drilling here are US owned and opperated and therefore taxed by the US government and therefore the American people get benefits from finding and producing oil here even if we don't get to use all of it.

Brazil IS energy independent though and why? Because they drilled and found a gigantic amount of oil....it could happen to us

Lyle, you're wrong on that point. We would not reap the benefits of any company paying additional dollars in tax when the budget hasn't been balanced in almost a decade. At best that means we would just borrow less from China. At worst, the oil companies would just find additional tax shelters to avoid higher payments. That's like if you got a raise and instead of using the extra money that isn't in your already overdrafted bank account you just spend a little less with the Discover card to get whatever you wanted anyway. I forget the year, but General Motors completely avoided paying any taxes one year through whatever loophole was available at the time and Exxon-Mobil has reason to beam about their record-breaking profits: they know the gov't isn't getting a drop of it. And with a John McCain budget draft with no numbers in it that just means we're in for more of the same.

[Kirkland Laing]

A nationalised oil industry means the oil revenue goes to the people of the nation. If you look at what Norway has done with its oil revenues to improve the standard of living of its people you can see what I mean -- I'm sure Americans would like a free huge pension when they all retire too.

If you let private individuals own the oil -- in America's case if you give them free leases to produce it -- then you get a small group of private individuals who manipulate production to maximise profits, manipulate the government to avoid paying taxes on it, use their monopoly position to charge artificially high prices and thus make artificial profits for generations etc.

Here's a short history of the astounding corruption and outright robbery of oil consumers over generations, huge tax evasion etc. etc. of the US oil companies :

OPEC and Crude Oil

[Kirkland Laing]

So if we were to strike oil like say BRAZIL did it would have no effect on oil prices?

If we were to build more refineries and produce more gasoline that would have no effect on prices?


Guys bomb pipelines in Nigeria and that bumps the price up but if we find and produce more oil the price will stay the same?!?!

That reasoning (if you can call it that) would mean that supply and demand have nothing to do with oil prices but actions like bombing pipelines have a lot to do with prices......oh and then there's that little deal where OPEC says it'll cut production therefore making the price go up due to the law of supply and demand.....but I suppose that's just a coincidence.


And OIL isn't the only thing worth drilling for Natural Gas is a big source of power which T. Boone Pickins wants us to use to supplement wind and solar power (because you need to supplement those kinds of power). But I suppose you don't figure they will find any of that here either.

Obama doesn't want ANY drilling and therefore we would be stuck waiting for the Energy Fairy to make us energy independent or have any remote effect on the price of oil......ooooh maybe he'll pull a Jimmy Carter and wear a sweater oh that would be awesome....and then maybe the government could control our thermostats....totally cool! Kirkland you think of everything, I should outsource my worries about the heat or cold to the government....what a load off my mind, now I can focus on important things like gun control and world peace

Oil that may come online in a decade has zero effect on current oil prices. What part of this don't you understand?

If Nigerian oil is taken off the market by pipeline attacks then that does affect the oil price, because that oil is currently being produced.

The US refiners don't want to build new refineries as it would cut their profit margins. They've been cutting refining capacity to increase profits for two decades now.

OPEC are cutting production because they're paid in dollars. Bush has printed so many dollars that they've halved in value so OPEC are demanding double the price to give them the same real income they used to have.

If you started drilling every single available US offshore field tomorrow the entire production, when it eventually hit the market, would have zero effect on oil prices because US domestic demand would have increased by far more than the new offshore production by the time it comes online. Offshore drilling is no answer whatsoever to the current energy crisis. It's completely irrelevant in the long term. That's why the Democrats aren't interested in it. If the media wasn't in the tank for the Republicans, they wouldn't let them make this bs offshore-drilling-is-the-answer argument/campaign policy. They'd call them on their bs and ask them if they had an energy policy that would actually be effective.

So if there's anything you still don't understand fully here let me know and I'll explain it more clearly.

[El Kabong]

Oil that may come online in a decade has zero effect on current oil prices. What part of this don't you understand?

If Nigerian oil is taken off the market by pipeline attacks then that does affect the oil price, because that oil is currently being produced.

The US refiners don't want to build new refineries as it would cut their profit margins. They've been cutting refining capacity to increase profits for two decades now.

OPEC are cutting production because they're paid in dollars. Bush has printed so many dollars that they've halved in value so OPEC are demanding double the price to give them the same real income they used to have.

If you started drilling every single available US offshore field tomorrow the entire production, when it eventually hit the market, would have zero effect on oil prices because US domestic demand would have increased by far more than the new offshore production by the time it comes online. Offshore drilling is no answer whatsoever to the current energy crisis. It's completely irrelevant in the long term. That's why the Democrats aren't interested in it. If the media wasn't in the tank for the Republicans, they wouldn't let them make this bs offshore-drilling-is-the-answer argument/campaign policy. They'd call them on their bs and ask them if they had an energy policy that would actually be effective.

So if there's anything you still don't understand fully here let me know and I'll explain it more clearly.

So if I am the seller and you're the buyer and I have a quantity of 1 of my product to sell the price I would ask for it would be at it's highest (or lowest depending on demand, with oil we really don't have to worry about demand until something better comes along). If a competitor is coming to market in the near future and is bringing more of my product to market then you the buyer have some leverage to negotiate price with me the seller and the price will drop not due to lack of demand but due to increase in supply even supply that hasn't even happened yet.

Oil goes up and goes down and guess what gas prices go up and go down because of it....so don't tell me the price won't be affected right away. Price will be affected if they build the platforms before they even drill. Just announcing they're THINKING about drilling can make the speculators flinch.

[Kirkland Laing]

Oil that may come online in a decade has zero effect on current oil prices. What part of this don't you understand?

If Nigerian oil is taken off the market by pipeline attacks then that does affect the oil price, because that oil is currently being produced.

The US refiners don't want to build new refineries as it would cut their profit margins. They've been cutting refining capacity to increase profits for two decades now.

OPEC are cutting production because they're paid in dollars. Bush has printed so many dollars that they've halved in value so OPEC are demanding double the price to give them the same real income they used to have.

If you started drilling every single available US offshore field tomorrow the entire production, when it eventually hit the market, would have zero effect on oil prices because US domestic demand would have increased by far more than the new offshore production by the time it comes online. Offshore drilling is no answer whatsoever to the current energy crisis. It's completely irrelevant in the long term. That's why the Democrats aren't interested in it. If the media wasn't in the tank for the Republicans, they wouldn't let them make this bs offshore-drilling-is-the-answer argument/campaign policy. They'd call them on their bs and ask them if they had an energy policy that would actually be effective.

So if there's anything you still don't understand fully here let me know and I'll explain it more clearly.

So if I am the seller and you're the buyer and I have a quantity of 1 of my product to sell the price I would ask for it would be at it's highest (or lowest depending on demand, with oil we really don't have to worry about demand until something better comes along). If a competitor is coming to market in the near future and is bringing more of my product to market then you the buyer have some leverage to negotiate price with me the seller and the price will drop not due to lack of demand but due to increase in supply even supply that hasn't even happened yet.

Oil goes up and goes down and guess what gas prices go up and go down because of it....so don't tell me the price won't be affected right away. Price will be affected if they build the platforms before they even drill. Just announcing they're THINKING about drilling can make the speculators flinch.

You're questioning my Infallibility again.


If you have product to sell right now then you affect the current price. If your product won't hit the market for a decade then you're not in the market.


Look Lyle, nobody buying and selling oil gives a shit about something that may or may not come to market a decade from now. Somebody may develop a new energy source next year that sees the price of oil hit $10 a barrel, so smething that may happen in a decade is irrelevant. The oil market doesn't ever look more than a few months ahead and normally not past the latest ststement on current market supply levels, something issued every couple of weeks.

[El Kabong]

Well I will say ethanol isn't helping the price of oil or the price of anything else for that matter