Haye 16st 9lbs

[ross]

he does make for entertaining fights.

Hmmm

Oh yeah, Abdul was a real smash bang affair

Wasnt that the figfht where he panicked about going the distance and he did it by not throwing any punches

[leftylee]

Dominic Guinn. Timor and Sultan Ibragimov. John Ruiz. Nicolay Valuev. David Tua. Sam Peter. Oleg Maskaev. Jameel McCline. Malik Scott.

I could go on.

Has anybody seen these people fight? They're boring. Period. All of them and there's more not to mention Wlad.

Haye's like the Luke Skywalker of the heavyweight division, our only real hope.

Glad to see an American say that. Haye won't let anybody down, I guarantee it.

[leftylee]

he does make for entertaining fights.

Hmmm

Oh yeah, Abdul was a real smash bang affair

Wasnt that the figfht where he panicked about going the distance and he did it by not throwing any punches

Haye hit him with everything. Abdoul has an iron chin.

[leftylee]

Can't wait for his first fight at heavyweight just wish he would get his opponent set so we know who he is fighting.

What do you think about Arreola? I think that would be the perfect step up to HW fight for Haye.

I watched Arreola smash Witherspoon and was damm impressed.

[killersheep]

he does make for entertaining fights.

Hmmm

Oh yeah, Abdul was a real smash bang affair

Wasnt that the figfht where he panicked about going the distance and he did it by not throwing any punches

I would say that Haye-Mormeck was one of the most exciting Cruiserweight fights in recent memory. I'm not a fan of Haye, but I'll watch his fights because he is exciting to watch the fact that he has
that much power and also has the detrement of a weak chin makes it
all that much more interesting. He did everything he could against Ishmail, you can't rely on knocking everyone out.

So who in the Cruiserweight or Heavyweight division does bring the excitement level you are talking about, what is the standard here you are disputing?

[ross]

What are you on about? Im commenting that people are overrating Haye by believing his own tripe, like hes some cult leader

I know alot of fighters are boring and I remember watching Haye follow Abdul around for an entire fight without breaking a sweat, that was fuucking boring to watch, he didnt attempt to up the pace and got booed loudly.

Haye is just as boring as the next fighter.

Abdul had been stopped before Haye fought him as well

[killersheep]

What are you on about? Im commenting that people are overrating Haye by believing his own tripe, like hes some cult leader

I know alot of fighters are boring and I remember watching Haye follow Abdul around for an entire fight without breaking a sweat, that was fuucking boring to watch, he didnt attempt to up the pace and got booed loudly.

Haye is just as boring as the next fighter.

Abdul had been stopped before Haye fought him as well

I by no means think Haye is a god and I don't think I have given that impression. He is an exciting fighter to me end of. I would like to see him fight Arreola which should let is know if there is any truth is his claims.

And since I have to defend myself against you I will refer you to the very post to which you took a single quote.

Credit where credit is due, he did everything he needed to in the CW division, he does make for entertaining fights, but anyone saying he has done anything at HW is certainly showing their fanboyism. At HW he is an unknown quantity. Haye needs to fight Arreola, or someone of that level.

Arreola is rated #7 by the IBF and #4 by the WBO which are the two straps that Wladdy holds. Arreola also holds the #10 spot on the ring list.

Please point out in this statement where I am "following him like a cult leader" and why you chose me to focus this argument against.

Furthermore, did you find Haye-Mormeck boring?

[eagle]

Haye looks in awesome shape. Not like the other heavyweights, fat slobs.

All the other heavies may be fat slobs but this guy isnt and at the end of the day he is the one that matters.

[TommyGunn_]

Haye will probably weigh around 220 at fight time, thats perfect for him.

[rjj tszyu]

Well said...People tend to forget that a punch from a bonafied HW fighter (225-240lbs)...That can crack just a bit is one hell of a thing to absorb.....The whole with speed comes power theory has its limits.....

It is not that speed makes you hit harder it is the fact that you can not prepare for what you can not see coming.....Making the punch that you don't see having a higher effect...With that being said....

At HW you need to have HW power to keep that theory intact....

A shot from a guy who weighs 240lbs at full force will rock you a hell of a lot harder then a guy who is 195-200lbs normally....

Also Haye (And his followers) need to remember that Haye has never felt REAL: HW power and Wlad certainly has REAL HW power.....

Manny will make a game plan suited for Haye if it ever happens...All Wlad has to do is follow it....Wlad is his own worst enemy at times because he anticipates punches or gets punch shy a bit.....That is a no no....But if Wlad does not think he has anything to fear from Hayes shots then he will stand up and fight him...I don't care how much the "Hayemaker" is primed to land if he stands in front of Wlad for one exchange he will find out why he was the cruiserweight chamiopn and not the HW champ in the first place.....


After he wins the belt who does he have to face?.....Are we going to pretend he can stand up to the power of Peter, McCline, even the aging slow punching David Tua would spark him if he lands......

Haye is no Evander Holyfield....He is not the next great HW

Whether Haye is the next great heavyweight or not can only be told by time but your talking as though 240lbs is the weight that HWs hardest punchers weighed..... Your wrong.

Prime Tyson- 215lbs-220lbs
Prime Foreman- 218lbs-230lbs
Prime Shavers- 210lbs-215lbs
Prime Louis- 198lbs-210lbs

Thats just a few but these four could be argued as being the hardest punchers ever and they prove my point that you don't have to be 240lbs to be a great puncher. Punching has a technique to it and once you start getting too heavy you cannot put the same kind of snap into a punch to cause the kind of damage that the men i mentioned used to do.

You also have to take into account that the men they were facing were same weight maybe slightly under or over what they weighed.Today's heavyweight's are much bigger and guy's like Wlad have great boxing talent that really hasn't been seen in besides Lennox. Both of these men are huge they are not plotters but light on the toes,their not slow they are very quick indeed for big men.To see Shaver's or Joe Louis in their with Lennox or Wlad I think they would toy with them and then knock them out.

Are you joking? Maybe you could make a case for Lennox beating Louis but not Wlad. I have all the respect in the world for him but he is just not mentally tough enough for Louis and also Lewis was KO'd by McCall and Rahman which is no great achievement but he avenged so i'm not going too deep into that. But also you said that Louis wasn't beating men that are as big as todays heavys let me give you a few examples:

25-6-1935 Joe Louis (196lbs) TKOd Primo Carnera (260 1/2 lbs) round 6.
21-3-1941 Joe Louis (202lbs) TKOd Abe Simon (254 1/2 lbs) round 13.
23-5-1941 Joe Louis (202lbs) won by DQ after flooring Buddy Baer (237lbs) 3 times in round 6 after which Baers manager refused to leave the ring resulting in the DQ.
REMATCH 9-1-1942 Joe Louis (206lbs) KOd Buddy Baer (250lbs) round 1.
27-3-1942 Joe Louis (207lbs) TKO'd Abe Simon (255lbs) round 6.

Now I'd say that they are all big men like todays heavys but not one could stand upto Louis' punch power.

[leftylee]

If anyone has got a David Haye career set they wish to sell let me know

[WelshDevilRob]

he does make for entertaining fights.

Hmmm

Oh yeah, Abdul was a real smash bang affair

Wasnt that the figfht where he panicked about going the distance and he did it by not throwing any punches

Haye hit him with everything. Abdoul has an iron chin.

It was a public sparring contest. The team wanted him to go the distance and the plan was to limit his punch output each round and not throw any real big shots. It worked as it gave Haye the experience of doing 12 rounds. They used this formula against Mormeck as they knew Haye was weak at the weight - except against Mormeck they mixed in the bombs aswell.

A similar situation happened when Lennox Lewis fought undefeated Zelkjo Mavrovic. Emmanual Steward wanted Lennox to do the rounds to get him prepared for his next fight against Holyfield.

Sometimes not looking great in a fight is for a reason - the bigger prize down the line.

[The Fightfan]

Whether Haye is the next great heavyweight or not can only be told by time but your talking as though 240lbs is the weight that HWs hardest punchers weighed..... Your wrong.

Prime Tyson- 215lbs-220lbs
Prime Foreman- 218lbs-230lbs
Prime Shavers- 210lbs-215lbs
Prime Louis- 198lbs-210lbs

Thats just a few but these four could be argued as being the hardest punchers ever and they prove my point that you don't have to be 240lbs to be a great puncher. Punching has a technique to it and once you start getting too heavy you cannot put the same kind of snap into a punch to cause the kind of damage that the men i mentioned used to do.

You also have to take into account that the men they were facing were same weight maybe slightly under or over what they weighed.Today's heavyweight's are much bigger and guy's like Wlad have great boxing talent that really hasn't been seen in besides Lennox. Both of these men are huge they are not plotters but light on the toes,their not slow they are very quick indeed for big men.To see Shaver's or Joe Louis in their with Lennox or Wlad I think they would toy with them and then knock them out.

Are you joking? Maybe you could make a case for Lennox beating Louis but not Wlad. I have all the respect in the world for him but he is just not mentally tough enough for Louis and also Lewis was KO'd by McCall and Rahman which is no great achievement but he avenged so i'm not going too deep into that. But also you said that Louis wasn't beating men that are as big as todays heavys let me give you a few examples:

25-6-1935 Joe Louis (196lbs) TKOd Primo Carnera (260 1/2 lbs) round 6.
21-3-1941 Joe Louis (202lbs) TKOd Abe Simon (254 1/2 lbs) round 13.
23-5-1941 Joe Louis (202lbs) won by DQ after flooring Buddy Baer (237lbs) 3 times in round 6 after which Baers manager refused to leave the ring resulting in the DQ.
REMATCH 9-1-1942 Joe Louis (206lbs) KOd Buddy Baer (250lbs) round 1.
27-3-1942 Joe Louis (207lbs) TKO'd Abe Simon (255lbs) round 6.

Now I'd say that they are all big men like todays heavys but not one could stand upto Louis' punch power.

Ok granted but you named three fighter's what about Marciano smaller,Walcott smaller,Lee Savold smaller,Ezzard Charles smaller,Billy Conn smaller, etc. You have name probably the most uncoordinated heavyweight's of all time. Primo Carnera a joke, watch Requiem for a heavyweight. Next you would tell me that Joe Louis would knock both of these fighter's out. Meaning Wlad and Lennox. I would have to end this conversation.

[El Kabong]

rjjtszyu, as happy as you are that David Haye is actually going to fight a heavyweight soon (so I've heard) you really have to admit that Haye has a lot to prove at heavyweight.


When Holyfield moved up he had to RE-ANSWER all the questions about him, chin, heart, stamina, power, and overall effectiveness as a fighter vs the bigger more experienced heavyweights. If you're telling me Haye is so good that he doesn't need to go the path that Holyfield went then I'll be the first to laugh in your face.

There are AMPLE reasons why David Haye needs to re-answer the questions people have about fighters: Bert Cooper, Dwight Muhammed Qawi, Orlin Norris, Alfred Cole, Lee Roy Murphy, Vassily Jirov....all damn fine cruiseweights but were found lacking in the heavyweight division.

[DaxxKahn]

Whether Haye is the next great heavyweight or not can only be told by time but your talking as though 240lbs is the weight that HWs hardest punchers weighed..... Your wrong.

Prime Tyson- 215lbs-220lbs
Prime Foreman- 218lbs-230lbs
Prime Shavers- 210lbs-215lbs
Prime Louis- 198lbs-210lbs

Thats just a few but these four could be argued as being the hardest punchers ever and they prove my point that you don't have to be 240lbs to be a great puncher. Punching has a technique to it and once you start getting too heavy you cannot put the same kind of snap into a punch to cause the kind of damage that the men i mentioned used to do.

You also have to take into account that the men they were facing were same weight maybe slightly under or over what they weighed.Today's heavyweight's are much bigger and guy's like Wlad have great boxing talent that really hasn't been seen in besides Lennox. Both of these men are huge they are not plotters but light on the toes,their not slow they are very quick indeed for big men.To see Shaver's or Joe Louis in their with Lennox or Wlad I think they would toy with them and then knock them out.

Are you joking? Maybe you could make a case for Lennox beating Louis but not Wlad. I have all the respect in the world for him but he is just not mentally tough enough for Louis and also Lewis was KO'd by McCall and Rahman which is no great achievement but he avenged so i'm not going too deep into that. But also you said that Louis wasn't beating men that are as big as todays heavys let me give you a few examples:

25-6-1935 Joe Louis (196lbs) TKOd Primo Carnera (260 1/2 lbs) round 6.
21-3-1941 Joe Louis (202lbs) TKOd Abe Simon (254 1/2 lbs) round 13.
23-5-1941 Joe Louis (202lbs) won by DQ after flooring Buddy Baer (237lbs) 3 times in round 6 after which Baers manager refused to leave the ring resulting in the DQ.
REMATCH 9-1-1942 Joe Louis (206lbs) KOd Buddy Baer (250lbs) round 1.
27-3-1942 Joe Louis (207lbs) TKO'd Abe Simon (255lbs) round 6.

Now I'd say that they are all big men like todays heavys but not one could stand upto Louis' punch power.

I go by the average of todays fighters what fighters weighed or how tall they were 20, 30, 50yrs ago means nothing so you went to boxrec and looked up all your statistics for nothing......Buddy Baer and Abe Simon were not in Louis Class look at their resumes before starting to use examples.....Buddy was an opponent for many a HW to look good against and the last name Baer brought in names...

As for Lewis being KO'd by Rahman and McCall and you not getting into that....Those were Lewis own fault for not taking his opp seriously.....I think he showed in the rematches who the man was...Neither gave him even a close round in the rematches....

So no I am not talking as though that is the weight HWts hardest punchers weighed and when you make a counterpoint don't use the biggest hoaxes to ever step in the division to make it