Ali, the dark side of his skill

[El Kabong]

Hehehe, i hope you dont think i'm being presumtious, but i must guess most of you including Lyle are American. Over here in Britain we have 3 subjects that are taboo, or should i say 3 people that must never be criticised.
They are in order.
1. The Queen mother
2. Henry Cooper
3. Bobby Charlton ( soccer player in the 60's)

I imagine it must be a bit like that over there with Ali, but a great laugh anyway seeing the thread and the reaction. lmao

CoolClick, Freddie you might not have a lot of posts but that was a pretty good comparison. You would think I insulted the Pope or some religious figure, maybe even someone's mother but nah I was just wanting Ali to be viewed the same as every other boxer. He's a fighter, yeah he was very good, but he also bent the rules, as did other all-time greats. Don't look at his political stance, his religion, his attitude, his flamboyance, just his boxing, boxing style, and his wins and losses.

And I got like 20 sad clicks for it, oh well, little babies find someone they can't agree with or that won't bend to make everyone happy and it pisses them off.

[Freddie]

Well thanks lyle and cool click back.
What you said makes a lot of sense and yes some people become bigger than their respective sports. Ali was in Boxing, Maradonna was in Soccer and it would appear that Schumacher is in Forula One racing. But it gives us something to talk about.I think Starr was a bit O.T.T. in his opinion about Lennox/Tyson.
After all Lennox never tried to snap someone's arm, headbutt people as a matter of course and as far as i am aware he only eats at the dinner table. Is it cos he's British that people hated seeing him humiliate an American Idol?

[means2184]

i dont remember Ali ever really holding and hitting or back handing ...and leaving your jab extended isnt 100% illegal cause a ref would have to prove that its a stiff arm and not just a lingering jab ...plus when ali left his jab out it was usually used to mark the spot for his right...

anyway when did ali hold and hit or back hand?

[mucho testosterone]

Hehehe, i hope you dont think i'm being presumtious, but i must guess most of you including Lyle are American. Over here in Britain we have 3 subjects that are taboo, or should i say 3 people that must never be criticised.
They are in order.
1. The Queen mother
2. Henry Cooper
3. Bobby Charlton ( soccer player in the 60's)

I imagine it must be a bit like that over there with Ali, but a great laugh anyway seeing the thread and the reaction. lmao

CoolClick, Freddie you might not have a lot of posts but that was a pretty good comparison. You would think I insulted the Pope or some religious figure, maybe even someone's mother but nah I was just wanting Ali to be viewed the same as every other boxer. He's a fighter, yeah he was very good, but he also bent the rules, as did other all-time greats. Don't look at his political stance, his religion, his attitude, his flamboyance, just his boxing, boxing style, and his wins and losses.

And I got like 20 sad clicks for it, oh well, little babies find someone they can't agree with or that won't bend to make everyone happy and it pisses them off.

You probably wouldn't have received as much flack if it was the pope

[X]

Hehehe, i hope you dont think i'm being presumtious, but i must guess most of you including Lyle are American. Over here in Britain we have 3 subjects that are taboo, or should i say 3 people that must never be criticised.
They are in order.
1. The Queen mother
2. Henry Cooper
3. Bobby Charlton ( soccer player in the 60's)

I imagine it must be a bit like that over there with Ali, but a great laugh anyway seeing the thread and the reaction. lmao

CoolClick, Freddie you might not have a lot of posts but that was a pretty good comparison. You would think I insulted the Pope or some religious figure, maybe even someone's mother but nah I was just wanting Ali to be viewed the same as every other boxer. He's a fighter, yeah he was very good, but he also bent the rules, as did other all-time greats. Don't look at his political stance, his religion, his attitude, his flamboyance, just his boxing, boxing style, and his wins and losses.

And I got like 20 sad clicks for it, oh well, little babies find someone they can't agree with or that won't bend to make everyone happy and it pisses them off.

You probably wouldn't have received as much flack if it was the pope

Of course not, the Pope never was world champion and who's ever heard of 'pope-a-dope'?

[means2184]

Hehehe, i hope you dont think i'm being presumtious, but i must guess most of you including Lyle are American. Over here in Britain we have 3 subjects that are taboo, or should i say 3 people that must never be criticised.
They are in order.
1. The Queen mother
2. Henry Cooper
3. Bobby Charlton ( soccer player in the 60's)

I imagine it must be a bit like that over there with Ali, but a great laugh anyway seeing the thread and the reaction. lmao

CoolClick, Freddie you might not have a lot of posts but that was a pretty good comparison. You would think I insulted the Pope or some religious figure, maybe even someone's mother but nah I was just wanting Ali to be viewed the same as every other boxer. He's a fighter, yeah he was very good, but he also bent the rules, as did other all-time greats. Don't look at his political stance, his religion, his attitude, his flamboyance, just his boxing, boxing style, and his wins and losses.

And I got like 20 sad clicks for it, oh well, little babies find someone they can't agree with or that won't bend to make everyone happy and it pisses them off.

You probably wouldn't have received as much flack if it was the pope

Of course not, the Pope never was world champion and who's ever heard of 'pope-a-dope'?

pope a dope

[El Kabong]

i dont remember Ali ever really holding and hitting or back handing ...and leaving your jab extended isnt 100% illegal cause a ref would have to prove that its a stiff arm and not just a lingering jab ...plus when ali left his jab out it was usually used to mark the spot for his right...

anyway when did ali hold and hit or back hand?

The backhanding is most evident in his later years using the "rope-a-dope" his little pitter pat punches some of which were back handed and it's a risk you run as a fighter with your lead arm down at your waist. Did it vs Foreman especially, but maybe it was just how he threw it, elbow out fist comes from the chest to make contact.

The holding and hitting wasn't as popular for him as the plain holding but he did it to vs Foreman and Frazier. Less is made about that because Foreman and Frazier hit Ali with EVERYTHING when he held them

[Purist]

You DO know that Ali is consideredt he greatest of all time and is on that pedastal that it didn't have everything to do with his style right Because if that was the case Larry Holmes would be number 2

[El Kabong]

You DO know that Ali is consideredt he greatest of all time and is on that pedastal that it didn't have everything to do with his style right Because if that was the case Larry Holmes would be number 2

Starr, princess, as you so delicately put it Larry would have fuck all chance of being #2 because he fought guys worse than what Marciano and Louis fought and he STILL lost to a cruiserweight....TWICE

[Purist]

But you're talking about Ali's style and Wladimer's style and why people aren't bashing Ali and why he is considered the greatest of all time. And I'm just showing you that the reason he is considered the greatest didn't have everything to do with his style

[zacbox]

I don't think Marciano is number 2 on an all time list, he was too limited (probably why he was an underdog) and the level of competition was not as strong as other eras. I think the '0' elevates him higher then he should be when compared to others.
Not much argument with Louis, a phenomenal record.

BTW The Queen Mother never had a 'glorious smile'.
Henry Cooper, before my time but what was the fuss about?
Bobby Charlton - England's highest scorer but not the best (Greaves on a goal per game) and perhaps the weakest of the Law, Best, Charlton Trinity

That's three taboo's broken, anyone else think of any further criticisms of the sacred three.

[Feather Fisted]

That's three taboo's broken, anyone else think of any further criticisms of the sacred three.

Surely Bobby's comb-over deserves a mention

[zacbox]

That's three taboo's broken, anyone else think of any further criticisms of the sacred three.

Surely Bobby's comb-over deserves a mention

haha of course

[El Kabong]

I don't think Marciano is number 2 on an all time list, he was too limited (probably why he was an underdog) and the level of competition was not as strong as other eras. I think the '0' elevates him higher then he should be when compared to others.
Not much argument with Louis, a phenomenal record.

BTW The Queen Mother never had a 'glorious smile'.
Henry Cooper, before my time but what was the fuss about?
Bobby Charlton - England's highest scorer but not the best (Greaves on a goal per game) and perhaps the weakest of the Law, Best, Charlton Trinity

That's three taboo's broken, anyone else think of any further criticisms of the sacred three.

Well give anyone the chance in any era to go 49-0-0 and they will fail. Marciano trained to win and he won, he accepted nothing else.

Even Valuev will lose before he reaches 49-0-0 doesn't matter who they put him in with, someone will beat the guy before that happens