Joel gets stopped - major surprise

[killersheep]

There's no perfect ranking system... The RING? It's only a magazine... Casamayor's RING belt is not that highly regarded because the RING rankings also has its own flaws...

The ring is not only a magazine, it is the only organization that recognizes who the real lineal champ of each division is. Please tell me the flaws of the Ring system.

"You become champ by beating the champ" can be considered a flaw since it can be also manipulated on who will control the belt. The challenger need not work up the rankings to get a shot at the ring champ.

The ring champ has no mandatories and this also can be considered a flaw.

Of course the Champ controls the belt, who else would?

Why is not having any mandatories a flaw?

[XaduBoxer]

The ring is not only a magazine, it is the only organization that recognizes who the real lineal champ of each division is. Please tell me the flaws of the Ring system.

"You become champ by beating the champ" can be considered a flaw since it can be also manipulated on who will control the belt. The challenger need not work up the rankings to get a shot at the ring champ.

The ring champ has no mandatories and this also can be considered a flaw.

Of course the Champ controls the belt, who else would?

Why is not having any mandatories a flaw?

How about the promoter of the champ who chooses only challengers that he also promotes... The promoter controlling the ring belt... Example: Casamayor > JMM > Juan Diaz or Casamayor (again) or Katsidis... You know the promoter of these boxers, the owner of Ring magazine...

The ring champ can keep his belt for years by not fighting since he is not forced to make a mandatory fight...
.

[killersheep]

"You become champ by beating the champ" can be considered a flaw since it can be also manipulated on who will control the belt. The challenger need not work up the rankings to get a shot at the ring champ.

The ring champ has no mandatories and this also can be considered a flaw.

Of course the Champ controls the belt, who else would?

Why is not having any mandatories a flaw?

How about the promoter of the champ who chooses only challengers that he also promotes... The promoter controlling the ring belt... Example: Casamayor > JMM > Juan Diaz or Casamayor (again) or Katsidis... You know the promoter of these boxers, the owner of Ring magazine...

The ring champ can keep his belt for years by not fighting since he is not forced to make a mandatory fight...
.

So what are you proposing that's better?

[XaduBoxer]

Of course the Champ controls the belt, who else would?

Why is not having any mandatories a flaw?

How about the promoter of the champ who chooses only challengers that he also promotes... The promoter controlling the ring belt... Example: Casamayor > JMM > Juan Diaz or Casamayor (again) or Katsidis... You know the promoter of these boxers, the owner of Ring magazine...

The ring champ can keep his belt for years by not fighting since he is not forced to make a mandatory fight...
.

So what are you proposing that's better?

Nothing... It's been there for years and any system can be potentially corrupted... Any system will be flawed... Heard about people cursing those alphabet belts?

So we have to live with my own "flawed" rankings that PAC is the no. 1 lightweight in the world right now... Agree ??
.

[killersheep]

How about the promoter of the champ who chooses only challengers that he also promotes... The promoter controlling the ring belt... Example: Casamayor > JMM > Juan Diaz or Casamayor (again) or Katsidis... You know the promoter of these boxers, the owner of Ring magazine...

The ring champ can keep his belt for years by not fighting since he is not forced to make a mandatory fight...
.

So what are you proposing that's better?

Nothing... It's been there for years and any system can be potentially corrupted... Any system will be flawed... Heard about people cursing those alphabet belts?

So we have to live with my own "flawed" rankings that PAC is the no. 1 lightweight in the world right now... Agree ??
.

Reasons to use the ring over Alphabet belts

Alphabet titles don't rank other alphabet champs, ranks can be purchased, titles can be lost by not paying fees, of because an organization "feels like it". They rank people that haven't fought in a division

Reasons to use The Ring over fightnews.com and yahoo.com

fightnews and yahoo are based strictly on someone's opinion
they rank people that haven't fought in a division.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line: You still have not justified PAC at # 1.

The Ring is the most definitive way to define a champ

fightnews.com has no merit to define who is # 1 in a division.

YOU ARE A DAMN FANATIC.

[XaduBoxer]

So what are you proposing that's better?

Nothing... It's been there for years and any system can be potentially corrupted... Any system will be flawed... Heard about people cursing those alphabet belts?

So we have to live with my own "flawed" rankings that PAC is the no. 1 lightweight in the world right now... Agree ??
.

Reasons to use the ring over Alphabet belts

Alphabet titles don't rank other alphabet champs, ranks can be purchased, titles can be lost by not paying fees, of because an organization "feels like it". They rank people that haven't fought in a division

Reasons to use The Ring over fightnews.com and yahoo.com

fightnews and yahoo are based strictly on someone's opinion
they rank people that haven't fought in a division.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line: You still have not justified PAC at # 1.

The Ring is the most definitive way to define a champ

fightnews.com has no merit to define who is # 1 in a division.

YOU ARE A DAMN FANATIC.

Are you mad? Please don't take rankings (and belts) seriously... We can discuss about it and that's it... These things is part of boxing politics that ruining the sport...

What matters most to us fans is the fight itself... Just hope they'll make the best fights out there and we will be satisfied...

F u c k those rankings and belts... (after several pages discussing it)
.

[CFH]

Pac-fans...

[Kev]

I must admit I don't pay much attention to the Ring magazine rankings. I don't see how fightnews rankings are based on opinions but the Ring magazines arn't

I think people lose sight of the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE to actually rank people across different weight classes.

All it can ever be is an opinion no matter how well informed.

The only rankings that actually count in a real sense are the alphabet rankings. Does this mean I think these rankings accurately predict who the best fighters are in each division, hell no, of course not, they are biased and corrupt a lot of the time.

But the fact remains that within the sport they ARE the rankings. If the WBC says you are ranked number 3 then you ARE ranked number 3 IN THEIR ORGANISATION and no ring ranking is going to change that.

Look at the football league tables, right now Hull City are currently fourth in the premiership table. Does this mean they are 4th best team in the whole of England? Fuck no, nobody will expect them to finish in the top 10 come the end of the season but subjective opinion is meaningless because right now they ARE the 4th best team in England according to the Premier League table.

People get so hung up on subjecitve (and ultimately meaningless) Ring rankings that they fail to recognise that that they have no value in the real world of boxing.

You ask any fighter if he would rather never win a world title belt but be considered the ring champ in weight class or never be considered the ring champ in his weight class but to win a recognised a title belt and I'm certain they will all choose to win a real belt.

The fact is that in the real world a boxer would rather wrap the WBC, WBA or IBF belt around his waist than to be proclaimed the Ring champ in his weight class.

All the ring belt means is that people think you are the best, the belts are the actual prizes in boxing, just like the premier league title is the most important accolade in English football.

What do you think Man Utd or Chelsea would rather have? The recognition of being considered the best team in the country, or the actual trophy?

It's belts in boxing and silverware in football that is ultimately important.

[RozzySean]

So what are you proposing that's better?

Nothing... It's been there for years and any system can be potentially corrupted... Any system will be flawed... Heard about people cursing those alphabet belts?

So we have to live with my own "flawed" rankings that PAC is the no. 1 lightweight in the world right now... Agree ??
.

Reasons to use the ring over Alphabet belts

Alphabet titles don't rank other alphabet champs, ranks can be purchased, titles can be lost by not paying fees, of because an organization "feels like it". They rank people that haven't fought in a division

Reasons to use The Ring over fightnews.com and yahoo.com

fightnews and yahoo are based strictly on someone's opinion
they rank people that haven't fought in a division.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line: You still have not justified PAC at # 1.

The Ring is the most definitive way to define a champ

fightnews.com has no merit to define who is # 1 in a division.

YOU ARE A DAMN FANATIC.

Fightnews is good for one thing. Their ranking page will tell you in an instant all the alphabet titleholder the ranking of each idiotic organization. It will give you a decent idea of the state of a whole division. I wouldn't take there own ranking to mean much, but when I see a fight like Pavlik/Lockett announced, I go to fightnews to check the soup ranking before I make an indignant post on Saddo's. Fights like that might be stupid, but sometimes you gotta have them to keep a soup belt.

[XaduBoxer]

Nothing... It's been there for years and any system can be potentially corrupted... Any system will be flawed... Heard about people cursing those alphabet belts?

So we have to live with my own "flawed" rankings that PAC is the no. 1 lightweight in the world right now... Agree ??
.

Reasons to use the ring over Alphabet belts

Alphabet titles don't rank other alphabet champs, ranks can be purchased, titles can be lost by not paying fees, of because an organization "feels like it". They rank people that haven't fought in a division

Reasons to use The Ring over fightnews.com and yahoo.com

fightnews and yahoo are based strictly on someone's opinion
they rank people that haven't fought in a division.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line: You still have not justified PAC at # 1.

The Ring is the most definitive way to define a champ

fightnews.com has no merit to define who is # 1 in a division.

YOU ARE A DAMN FANATIC.

Fightnews is good for one thing. Their ranking page will tell you in an instant all the alphabet titleholder the ranking of each idiotic organization. It will give you a decent idea of the state of a whole division. I wouldn't take there own ranking to mean much, but when I see a fight like Pavlik/Lockett announced, I go to fightnews to check the soup ranking before I make an indignant post on Saddo's. Fights like that might be stupid, but sometimes you gotta have them to keep a soup belt.

I refer to Fightnews rankings more than the Ring rankings... I considered Fightnews overall rankings per division more sensible than the Ring... But as I pointed out earlier, each ranking system has its own flaws and not perfect...
.