I love Joe Calzaghe!

[Fenster]

I'll defend Pavlik's last two fights. Lockett, I'll give you, that was just a fight to keep Pavlik in the ring and in shape. Taylor the second time was an unavoidable fight. They previously both knocked each other down, the linear title switch hands, and went through arguably the fight of the year, a rematch was a no-brainer. With all those factors, like I said, the rematch was unavoidable not "a guy he previously blasted out in 7 rounds."

About facing Bernard Hopkins: First off, Pavlik never wanted this fight, his promotion company set this up and Kelly just went along with it. When it's all said and done, he just takes the fights that are given to him. NO ONE WANTS to fight Hopkins because he makes people look ugly. Abraham, Kessler, etc will still be there in a year so he's not ducking anyone. Hopkins and Calzaghe aren't going to be around for as long so why not fight them now while they're still here. Pavlik wants Calzaghe, and being impressive against Hopkins will make that fight closer to happening. PLUS! He makes way more money fighting Hopkins or Calzaghe than fighting Abraham and Kessler. Even though he initially didn't want the fight against Hopkins, looking at it this way makes sense in order to get Calzaghe in the ring.

If Kelly isn't a throwback fighter than I don't know who is. Like I said earlier, he doesn't choose his opponents, his promoter does and he just trains and fights. Look at De La Hoya, Mayweather, Pacquiao and other boxers of that stature. Those guys have a say in who they fight but Kelly doesn't deal with it that way. He's a fighter and nothing more...

Zertuche, Miranda, Taylor, Taylor, Lockett, Hopkins in two years is not "protected" if you ask me...

It's a fact Pavlik ko'd Taylor in 7 rounds. The reason for the second fight was Taylor invoked his 160+lbs rematch clause. Otherwise Pavlik would have been fighting Duddy.

So.. Pavlik didn't WANT to fight Hopkins, and has NO say in who he fights (have you got a link so i can read this)? Who did Pavlik WANT to fight?

And if that's the case.. it says EVERYTHING about the confidence his promotional team have in him. Since beating Taylor he has been linked with - Duddy, Lockett, Griffin, welterweight Williams, ancient Trinidad etc.. as I said previously, if he is CAREFULLY managed he may stay at the top for a while.

Abraham, Kessler and Bute are all, like Pavlik, young hungry guys in their PRIME. They are arguably far more dangerous opponents than 43 year-old no-legs Hopkins. And maybe even more dangerous than 37 year-old no-hands Calzaghe. BUT they don't offer the same MONEY rewards for the risk involved.

Fighters fight for MONEY! Pavlik is no different.

After Pavlik and Taylor's first fight, the public definitely wanted to see them fight a second time, regardless of a rematch clause.

In regards to a link. I read it on ESPN and it's no longer available to be viewed. (Trust me, I checked) It was back when the fight was first announced and Pavlik says something along the lines of "Hopkins isn't exactly the fight I want, but if they say you're fighting him, you gotta fight him." Pavlik didn't directly state who he wanted but it was obvious he didn't want Hopkins.

If Kessler and Abraham eventually become bigger in the US there's no doubt Pavlik would be fighting them. But as of right now, Hopkins and Calzaghe are the names which is why he is matched up with those two.

So you took that as Pavlik having no control over his career path?

I heard Pavlik say he's NOT interested in fighting outside the States (it was after a fight, probably Lockett) that rules out going to Denmark for Kessler, Germany for Abraham, Britain for Calzaghe.. if he REALLY WANTED only the best challenges how come he's not willing to travel?

[Deanrw]

OK. Pavlik fights his silly gimme mismatch mandatory. Then fights a 43 year-old coming off a loss in a meaningless catchweight contest. Of course he'd much rather face a serious challenger but his promotional team wont let him... But you accuse Calzaghe of taking the safe route? Come on, behave.

What do you not understand about the term "Nobody else was available"? Hell Arum tried to make a fight with a shitload of guys, he had at least 6 or 8 of them on the go, but they all over priced themselves.

Kessler was not available, Abraham was not available, Joe was not available. The only one that could have been available was Joe as the Jones fight is an option fight. Kessler and Abraham both have mandatory fights to get through.

Unbelievable!!!

So fighters are unavailable and pricing themselves out against Pavlik.. YET these things NEVER could have possibly happend in Calzaghe's career, right?

He prefers the easy route?

Come on, man.

Well he certainly seems to now. I know I would rather fight Jones over Pavlik in a safety sense. Before you say money, well Pavlik would have garnered him at least as much as Jones would have. Joe is knocking Pavlik now because even the media are questioning his decision in fighting Jones over Pavlik.

If you find evidence where Joe seriously made an attempt to fight the top dogs 5-10 years ago when he early in his reign, I will take back my comment.

He was comfy cozy living the Warren dream of sitting back and fighting fringe guys that Warren spoon fed him over and over again.

[Deanrw]

It's a fact Pavlik ko'd Taylor in 7 rounds. The reason for the second fight was Taylor invoked his 160+lbs rematch clause. Otherwise Pavlik would have been fighting Duddy.

So.. Pavlik didn't WANT to fight Hopkins, and has NO say in who he fights (have you got a link so i can read this)? Who did Pavlik WANT to fight?

And if that's the case.. it says EVERYTHING about the confidence his promotional team have in him. Since beating Taylor he has been linked with - Duddy, Lockett, Griffin, welterweight Williams, ancient Trinidad etc.. as I said previously, if he is CAREFULLY managed he may stay at the top for a while.

Abraham, Kessler and Bute are all, like Pavlik, young hungry guys in their PRIME. They are arguably far more dangerous opponents than 43 year-old no-legs Hopkins. And maybe even more dangerous than 37 year-old no-hands Calzaghe. BUT they don't offer the same MONEY rewards for the risk involved.

Fighters fight for MONEY! Pavlik is no different.

After Pavlik and Taylor's first fight, the public definitely wanted to see them fight a second time, regardless of a rematch clause.

In regards to a link. I read it on ESPN and it's no longer available to be viewed. (Trust me, I checked) It was back when the fight was first announced and Pavlik says something along the lines of "Hopkins isn't exactly the fight I want, but if they say you're fighting him, you gotta fight him." Pavlik didn't directly state who he wanted but it was obvious he didn't want Hopkins.

If Kessler and Abraham eventually become bigger in the US there's no doubt Pavlik would be fighting them. But as of right now, Hopkins and Calzaghe are the names which is why he is matched up with those two.

So you took that as Pavlik having no control over his career path?

I heard Pavlik say he's NOT interested in fighting outside the States (it was after a fight, probably Lockett) that rules out going to Denmark for Kessler, Germany for Abraham, Britain for Calzaghe.. if he REALLY WANTED only the best challenges how come he's not willing to travel?

Well I agree with you there. I can understand his unwillingness to fight Abraham in Germany though as Saunderland has been known to be shady. If it was another promoter, I would have no issue with him fighting there.

If he got a shot at Joe, I would fully expect him to fight Joe in Wales. Joe is the top dog and the top dog in my opinion should always get the pick.

Also the way I interpreted Pavlik's comment was that he was not interested in fighting Abraham or Sturm in Germany. He never said he would never travel.

[Fenster]

What do you not understand about the term "Nobody else was available"? Hell Arum tried to make a fight with a shitload of guys, he had at least 6 or 8 of them on the go, but they all over priced themselves.

Kessler was not available, Abraham was not available, Joe was not available. The only one that could have been available was Joe as the Jones fight is an option fight. Kessler and Abraham both have mandatory fights to get through.

Unbelievable!!!

So fighters are unavailable and pricing themselves out against Pavlik.. YET these things NEVER could have possibly happend in Calzaghe's career, right?

He prefers the easy route?

Come on, man.

Well he certainly seems to now. I know I would rather fight Jones over Pavlik in a safety sense. Before you say money, well Pavlik would have garnered him at least as much as Jones would have. Joe is knocking Pavlik now because even the media are questioning his decision in fighting Jones over Pavlik.

If you find evidence where Joe seriously made an attempt to fight the top dogs 5-10 years ago when he early in his reign, I will take back my comment.

He was comfy cozy living the Warren dream of sitting back and fighting fringe guys that Warren spoon fed him over and over again.

This really can't be happening AGAIN

Hopkins pricing himself out -

"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear." - Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.

[Deanrw]

Unbelievable!!!

So fighters are unavailable and pricing themselves out against Pavlik.. YET these things NEVER could have possibly happend in Calzaghe's career, right?

He prefers the easy route?

Come on, man.

Well he certainly seems to now. I know I would rather fight Jones over Pavlik in a safety sense. Before you say money, well Pavlik would have garnered him at least as much as Jones would have. Joe is knocking Pavlik now because even the media are questioning his decision in fighting Jones over Pavlik.

If you find evidence where Joe seriously made an attempt to fight the top dogs 5-10 years ago when he early in his reign, I will take back my comment.

He was comfy cozy living the Warren dream of sitting back and fighting fringe guys that Warren spoon fed him over and over again.

This really can't be happening AGAIN

Hopkins pricing himself out -

"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear." - Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.

I have seen that one before. OK Warren may have tried to make that one, but others have claimed that they (Hopkins Camp) were also making side deals to fight ODLH.

Other things like what weight class was the fight supposed to be at and other got left out. But at least in that instance an attempt was made.

[Fenster]

Well he certainly seems to now. I know I would rather fight Jones over Pavlik in a safety sense. Before you say money, well Pavlik would have garnered him at least as much as Jones would have. Joe is knocking Pavlik now because even the media are questioning his decision in fighting Jones over Pavlik.

If you find evidence where Joe seriously made an attempt to fight the top dogs 5-10 years ago when he early in his reign, I will take back my comment.

He was comfy cozy living the Warren dream of sitting back and fighting fringe guys that Warren spoon fed him over and over again.

This really can't be happening AGAIN

Hopkins pricing himself out -

"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear." - Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.

I have seen that one before. OK Warren may have tried to make that one, but others have claimed that they (Hopkins Camp) were also making side deals to fight ODLH.

Other things like what weight class was the fight supposed to be at and other got left out. But at least in that instance an attempt was made.

He fought Oscar over 2 years later after facing Hakkar, Joppy and Allen for far less than the Calzaghe offer (although i guess there's "reasons" for that too)

Who else did you want him to fight? Sven Ottke was top supermiddle but even his trainer, Ulli Wegner, has recently confirmed Ottke wanted NOTHING to do with Calzaghe (he earned top money without having to leave Germany).

There really isn't many BIG names. Calzaghe attempted to move-up to face Glenn Johnson at light-heavy before pulling-out injured 50 times and eventually resuming at supermiddle.

This topic has been done to death.. Lacy fans, Kessler fans, now Pavlik fans.. unfortunately for you Pavlik fans - you might not get the chance of seeing your man schooled by Calzaghe

(i must be sick in the head to be going over this agian )

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Anyway Missy have you read your comments today
My laptop is tilted hahahahaha
And do you love Calzaghe too?

I have - go check.

Do I love him? No. That will always be Barrera I can not tell a lie. I have got on JC's case for the slapping, even though it's worked for him and for fighting pensioners. But y'know what. Good luck to him.

[C-Lo]

Oh that I agree with 100%. That is the main priority for all of them. It is just some of them also desire to be the top dog also. Pavlik probably did not want to fight Hopkins because Hopkins makes some lousy fights and was coming off a loss, but still took what was offered and he said himself Hopkins was the only guy available. Don't even mention Bute. His team has made a career of avoiding any live fighter and is only fighting Andrade because they are now forced to.

OK. Pavlik fights his silly gimme mismatch mandatory. Then fights a 43 year-old coming off a loss in a meaningless catchweight contest. Of course he'd much rather face a serious challenger but his promotional team wont let him... But you accuse Calzaghe of taking the safe route? Come on, behave.

What do you not understand about the term "Nobody else was available"? Hell Arum tried to make a fight with a shitload of guys, he had at least 6 or 8 of them on the go, but they all over priced themselves.

Kessler was not available, Abraham was not available, Joe was not available. The only one that could have been available was Joe as the Jones fight is an option fight. Kessler and Abraham both have mandatory fights to get through.

This really can't be happening AGAIN

Hopkins pricing himself out -

"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear." - Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.

I have seen that one before. OK Warren may have tried to make that one, but others have claimed that they (Hopkins Camp) were also making side deals to fight ODLH.

Other things like what weight class was the fight supposed to be at and other got left out. But at least in that instance an attempt was made.

He fought Oscar over 2 years later after facing Hakkar, Joppy and Allen for far less than the Calzaghe offer (although i guess there's "reasons" for that too)

Who else did you want him to fight? Sven Ottke was top supermiddle but even his trainer, Ulli Wegner, has recently confirmed Ottke wanted NOTHING to do with Calzaghe (he earned top money without having to leave Germany).

There really isn't many BIG names. Calzaghe attempted to move-up to face Glenn Johnson at light-heavy before pulling-out injured 50 times and eventually resuming at supermiddle.

This topic has been done to death.. Lacy fans, Kessler fans, now Pavlik fans.. unfortunately for you Pavlik fans - you might not get the chance of seeing your man schooled by Calzaghe

(i must be sick in the head to be going over this agian )

Lacy fan - not even close! I knew he was one-dimensional from the get-go.

Kessler fan - only when he fought Calzaghe. I don't really care much about him.

I definitely am a fan of Pavlik though.

[Deanrw]

This really can't be happening AGAIN

Hopkins pricing himself out -

"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear." - Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.

I have seen that one before. OK Warren may have tried to make that one, but others have claimed that they (Hopkins Camp) were also making side deals to fight ODLH.

Other things like what weight class was the fight supposed to be at and other got left out. But at least in that instance an attempt was made.

He fought Oscar over 2 years later after facing Hakkar, Joppy and Allen for far less than the Calzaghe offer (although i guess there's "reasons" for that too)

Who else did you want him to fight? Sven Ottke was top supermiddle but even his trainer, Ulli Wegner, has recently confirmed Ottke wanted NOTHING to do with Calzaghe (he earned top money without having to leave Germany).

There really isn't many BIG names. Calzaghe attempted to move-up to face Glenn Johnson at light-heavy before pulling-out injured 50 times and eventually resuming at supermiddle.

This topic has been done to death.. Lacy fans, Kessler fans, now Pavlik fans.. unfortunately for you Pavlik fans - you might not get the chance of seeing your man schooled by Calzaghe

(i must be sick in the head to be going over this agian )

Not if Joe keeps running. Maybe Pavlik will have to shoot him in the foot. Schooled by Calzaghe? Like Hopkins was right? LMAO You are so silly. I still love ya tho.

[boozeboxer]

Damn Dean I didn't know you were such a violent strong Pavlik fan?

I like both guys alot. I actually think Calzaghe would take it however. I mean I thought Kessler was a helluva specimen. I mean a real complete fighter.

I think Kessler would have destroyed taylor as well. But is that good logic. I don't know.

[Deanrw]

Damn Dean I didn't know you were such a violent strong Pavlik fan?

I like both guys alot. I actually think Calzaghe would take it however. I mean I thought Kessler was a helluva specimen. I mean a real complete fighter.

I think Kessler would have destroyed taylor as well. But is that good logic. I don't know.

I'm not a huge Pavlik fan, but a good fan. Give me Mijares or Linares any day. I'm more just Anti Calzaghe.hehe

I just find Joe a complete turd and his fanboys are going along with the shit he is spewing out. Joe cannot stop talking about Pavlik. I wonder if he has ghost nightmares?

You hear this stuff like Pavlik is One Dimensional, Straight Lines, Over Rated etc. It is all from Joe's mouth and his fanboy's repeat it all over the place. It comes down to them draping themselves in their flag and singing their anthem more than being boxing fans.

I never once spewed that Joe was slappy or discredited him as a boxer, I have questioned his integrity though.

[boozeboxer]

Damn Dean I didn't know you were such a violent strong Pavlik fan?

I like both guys alot. I actually think Calzaghe would take it however. I mean I thought Kessler was a helluva specimen. I mean a real complete fighter.

I think Kessler would have destroyed taylor as well. But is that good logic. I don't know.

I'm not a huge Pavlik fan, but a good fan. Give me Mijares or Linares any day. I'm more just Anti Calzaghe.hehe

That Calzaghe fight where he was completely showboating turned alot of people off him I am sure. His dad is alot like the William's sisters' dad too.

[Deanrw]

Damn Dean I didn't know you were such a violent strong Pavlik fan?

I like both guys alot. I actually think Calzaghe would take it however. I mean I thought Kessler was a helluva specimen. I mean a real complete fighter.

I think Kessler would have destroyed taylor as well. But is that good logic. I don't know.

I'm not a huge Pavlik fan, but a good fan. Give me Mijares or Linares any day. I'm more just Anti Calzaghe.hehe

That Calzaghe fight where he was completely showboating turned alot of people off him I am sure. His dad is alot like the William's sisters' dad too.

I have no issue with the showboating. It is his blatant lies and attempts to manipulate the press. His father is nuts but kind of funny also. His fans do not help his cause either already placing him in an all time great lists and trying to elevate him far higher than he is. Like I said, all flag draping.

[Fenster]

I'm not a huge Pavlik fan, but a good fan. Give me Mijares or Linares any day. I'm more just Anti Calzaghe.hehe

That Calzaghe fight where he was completely showboating turned alot of people off him I am sure. His dad is alot like the William's sisters' dad too.

I have no issue with the showboating. It is his blatant lies and attempts to manipulate the press. His father is nuts but kind of funny also. His fans do not help his cause either already placing him in an all time great lists and trying to elevate him far higher than he is. Like I said, all flag draping.

Who are these fans, Dean? I'd like to read the comments of these fans that call Calzaghe "an all time great" and those that "elavate him far higher than he is"

Also.. what does flag draping mean?

[Preme]

Smash what has Calzaghe down to show he is way better then Pavlik i mean he in the eyes of alot of people lost to 43 year old Hopkins. Now i know Hopkins hard to look good against but come on if Pavlik does a better job on Hopkins then Calzaghe did then he has nothing then.

"A lot of people" do me a favour did you even watch the fight?
Joe won convincingly in most peoples eyes and even the American pundits had him a clear winner,Hopkins held and made it ugly simply because he couldn't deal with him and i admit Joe struggled for a while to adapt to his shitty style but came through with ease in the latter rounds
As for Pavlik...him being a white man has put silly amounts of pressure on him and the US are crying out for the "great white hope" which is understandable as for years and years it's been blacks and latinos,mexicans who have dominated the sport in the States.
i don't see anyway kelly can win at all,Joe's to skilled a fighter,definately has a better chin and can adapt to styles brilliantly during a fight,his fitness levels are superhuman,oh and he's a southpaw who can box on the back foot beutifully and pick you apart or mix it inside and hit you so often you'd think you were surrounded.
I like Pavlik and he's exciting but he just comes in straight lines with no lateral movement and little head movement which is tailor made for the legend that is Calzaghe.
if i thought Kelly had even a punchers chance then i'd stand up and say but Joe's been in with harder hitters and it's not that Pavlik won't win but more a case of he Can't win.

I fully expect this fight to happen too and would be pissed off with JC if he never took the challenge.
Joe will give him a boxing lesson and make it look easy.

Obviously you claimed to have watched the fight. Answer me this one question. It's pretty fukking simple. I don't want it going over your head. Except for the low blow late in the fight, name me one punch Calzaghe landed in the whole fight that was worthwhile. Or noticeable? Seriously let me know. What round?

He landed nothing significant. He slapped the whole night and couldn't even land cleanly. He got dropped in one round. And hurt in another one. Yet you think he won. I have no doubt in my mind that if Calzaghe was Mexican or from Africa you would be crying that Hopkins was robbed. But he's from the UK. And instead of just being Joe Calzaghe. He's the legend Joe Calzaghe. But that's understandable. If Frank Bruno is considered a legend . Why not Joe?

Same old second rate posts coming from you I see. Even after your pathetic attempt to show someone up with that “who knows more about boxing” little thread you done in the off topic too.

Calzaghe landed no shortage of clean effective punches on Hopkins in that fight. If you couldn’t see that then maybe you should consider lying of the shandy during fight time. After all, you’re a man (a term I would use very loosely to describe you) in a child’s body. It will affect you a lot more than the rest of us who carried on growing after the age of 8.

The thing I find funny is, again someone with such knowledge of fighters like your self should know. Calzaghe has had to adapt to all the hand problems and the lack of power he has been left with from them by bombarding fighters with punches of accumulation rather than power. Someone who seldom watches any of Calzaghe’s fights can see that he throws punches with a different purpose now than when he had the power to knock people out or hurt them with one punch many years ago. No matter if you like the style or not, someone should be given credit for adapting to per long their career.

And what is with this entire IF and BUT scenario you have going on with Smash? Are you that seriously out of your depth and desperate that you have to pose un provable questions?

You claim that Smash is only saying all of this because he is English and Joe is Welsh? Sorry “British” What next? You will call a German biased because he is just like Joe, a European?

I know your mother probably inhaled way to much smoke in the bar she stripped at when she was carrying you, but come on dip shit, read your posts. You are the most biased fucking idiot here. Every half decent Latin fighter about, you overrate. If they lose a close fight they were robbed. Every British fighter is overrated and you pick against them every given chance. If they win a close fight the other guy got robbed. Are you seriously that stupid that you can’t even see your own ignorance?