God help me, I've become a social democrat

[CFH]

There is too much bureaucracy in Western governments. And probably too much welfare, especially in the UK.

You dont see too many single mothers in Korea. And Im quite sure thats one reason my tax is so low.

Yes there IS too much bureaucracy in western governments. And there is no PROBABLY about it there is WAAAAAAY too much welfare ESPECIALLY in places like England and Canada!


As for single mothers....when the government isn't picking up the tab it's not the greatest life choice to keep popping out little bastard kids.

Trainer you're playing revisionist history if you think Americans ever liked it when people got something for nothing ESPECIALLY if it was a person of a different ethnicity....watch Gangs of New York again, it has ALWAYS been like this.

You don't know jack shit about your own country, so I'm going to assume you don't know anything about mine either.

The amount of welfare distributed in Canada is a fraction of what your joke of a government has spent on an internationally condemned illegal war in Iraq which has resulted in the maiming and deaths of tens of thousands of people, each of whom has the same value as yourself.

[El Kabong]

You don't know jack shit about your own country, so I'm going to assume you don't know anything about mine either.

The amount of welfare distributed in Canada is a fraction of what your joke of a government has spent on an internationally condemned illegal war in Iraq which has resulted in the maiming and deaths of tens of thousands of people, each of whom has the same value as yourself.

Canada has a fraction of the people of the US.


Oooh the war in Iraq has offended Canada alert the media

[CFH]

You don't know jack shit about your own country, so I'm going to assume you don't know anything about mine either.

The amount of welfare distributed in Canada is a fraction of what your joke of a government has spent on an internationally condemned illegal war in Iraq which has resulted in the maiming and deaths of tens of thousands of people, each of whom has the same value as yourself.

Canada has a fraction of the people of the US.


Oooh the war in Iraq has offended Canada alert the media

We do have less people than the US. Very astute. You said we spend "too much" money on welfare, that statement made no qualifications about population size.

The Iraq war has not offended Canada, it has however almost universally disgusted anyone with a brain worldwide, it has also resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of people,

One could even make the assertion that the thousands of American soldiers coming home in body bags and the tens of thousands coming home without limbs and faces are more deserving of their lot than the innocent Iraqi's who have died, considering those same soldiers freely (economics and governmental propaganda aside) signed on to enforce the will of the people they are representing, the same people who started this war without any legitimate cause.

Have you ever considered how shameful this war is to the memory of those who died on 9/11?

[El Kabong]

Have you considered we were going to Iraq anyway 9/11 or no 9/11? Have you considered that Saddam could have just followed the treaty of the Persian Gulf War? Have you considered that even as botched as this war has been that it is admirable that the US decided to stay and fix what we broke and not leave the aforementioned "poor Iraqi civilians" to be brutalized by whatever tough guy would have taken over?


I'll argue with people all fucking day about Iraq it doesn't matter how we got there (mainly because nobody can change that) it matters that we are there now and it matters what we do there right now. But that's apparently too much for the anti-war people to handle at this point in time....oh let's sit down and have a finger pointing session while Iraq is in a state of anarchy....oh splendid.


Doesn't it matter that this mess gets cleaned up? Oh no I'm sorry what was I thinking we just have to find people to blame and everything will fix itself....that's the way of the world.

[Von Milash]

CFH, Canada is a joke. I've lived in both countries. I'll take the inner city gettos of USA over the canadian gov't handing out my tax dollars to lazy fucks who can do anythin they want and still get paid any day.

Canada is so fuckign socialized it makes me sick. The poor suck you and I dry.. 95% of them are there b'c they're lazy. It sucks down the middle class bigtime.

I DO know both countries, but choose not to get involved in this shit.

[CFH]

CFH, Canada is a joke. I've lived in both countries. I'll take the inner city gettos of USA over the canadian gov't handing out my tax dollars to lazy fucks who can do anythin they want and still get paid any day.

Canada is so fuckign socialized it makes me sick. The poor suck you and I dry.. 95% of them are there b'c they're lazy. It sucks down the middle class bigtime.

I DO know both countries, but choose not to get involved in this shit.

Have you ever lived in an inner city ghetto?

I've also lived in both countries, though I was a kid when I lived in the States, and while neither are perfect I'll pick Canada all day over the US.

So you're saying that you'd rather have people starving, committing crimes in order to get by etc. then have higher taxes. Fair enough, that's your opinion, but I do not agree with it.

There is more to life than money, despite what some people will have you believe.

[CFH]

Have you considered we were going to Iraq anyway 9/11 or no 9/11? Have you considered that Saddam could have just followed the treaty of the Persian Gulf War? Have you considered that even as botched as this war has been that it is admirable that the US decided to stay and fix what we broke and not leave the aforementioned "poor Iraqi civilians" to be brutalized by whatever tough guy would have taken over?


I'll argue with people all fucking day about Iraq it doesn't matter how we got there (mainly because nobody can change that) it matters that we are there now and it matters what we do there right now. But that's apparently too much for the anti-war people to handle at this point in time....oh let's sit down and have a finger pointing session while Iraq is in a state of anarchy....oh splendid.


Doesn't it matter that this mess gets cleaned up? Oh no I'm sorry what was I thinking we just have to find people to blame and everything will fix itself....that's the way of the world.

Going there for any reason was wrong. Manipulating the emotion of 9/11 and the general ignorance of the populace was a brilliant move, it was also morally indefensible.

It DOES matter how you got there. Saying it doesn't matter absolves anyone of being guilty. Just because it makes you look/feel badly or guilty or whatever, it does fucking matter. It sure as shit matters to all those who have died. I've never heard anyone say "Well, it doesn't matter why WW2 started."

So because Saddam didn't follow the rules imposed on him (it was as much a treaty as the Versailles "treaty"), that gives the American's the right to invade, kill tens of thousands of people, and somehow manage, through an enormous cluster-fuck of errors that would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic, to make the country the most dangerous place on earth. The Iraqi's were exponentially better off under Sadam, how incredibly fucked up is that?? The U.S. is absolutely no different from the fiction "random Tough Guy" boogeman you speak of.

It's not admirable that you stay their either, there's nothing admirable about it. You made the mess, there is nothing admirable about cleaning it up. What a fucking pathetic rationalization. You're the biggest idiot I have ever known if you believe that bullshit (and I know you don't). Though it is very considerate of you guys to wash up all the blood. I'm sure the Iraqi's are very greatful. And when one of them or their sympathizers perpetrates a crime against the U.S. that makes 9/11 look like the goddamn Teddy Bears picnic you keep spouting your bullshit excuses for what you've done.

[Gandalf]

Have you considered we were going to Iraq anyway 9/11 or no 9/11? Have you considered that Saddam could have just followed the treaty of the Persian Gulf War? Have you considered that even as botched as this war has been that it is admirable that the US decided to stay and fix what we broke and not leave the aforementioned "poor Iraqi civilians" to be brutalized by whatever tough guy would have taken over?


I'll argue with people all fucking day about Iraq it doesn't matter how we got there (mainly because nobody can change that) it matters that we are there now and it matters what we do there right now. But that's apparently too much for the anti-war people to handle at this point in time....oh let's sit down and have a finger pointing session while Iraq is in a state of anarchy....oh splendid.


Doesn't it matter that this mess gets cleaned up? Oh no I'm sorry what was I thinking we just have to find people to blame and everything will fix itself....that's the way of the world.

Of course it matters how you got involved in Iraq.

The war was started on a foundation of misinformation, lies and a complete lack of legitimacy. Then there is Guantanamo bay and the lack of respect regarding human rights. And now the economy is imploding, undoubtably the costly wars havent helped too much. Afghanistan even appears to be deteriorating. And a national debt your grandchildren will most likely be subsidising as a result of it all.

Its fucked up, and you show yourself up trying to defend or excuse that kind of nonsense.

[El Kabong]

miles it doesn't change the fact that we're there....do you get where I'm coming from?



And even if there were never any WMDs or anything like that all Saddam had to do was play ball and everything would have been fine but nooooo Saddam had to be a big shot and try to show us up and we called his bluff and now he's dead and we're well within our rights to call someone out on a treaty they agreed to or else the whole idea of signing a treaty is bogus.


Had someone done that with Germany a while back then well let's just say a lot of shit could have been avoided

[CFH]

miles it doesn't change the fact that we're there....do you get where I'm coming from?



And even if there were never any WMDs or anything like that all Saddam had to do was play ball and everything would have been fine but nooooo Saddam had to be a big shot and try to show us up and we called his bluff and now he's dead and we're well within our rights to call someone out on a treaty they agreed to or else the whole idea of signing a treaty is bogus.


Had someone done that with Germany a while back then well let's just say a lot of shit could have been avoided

Did you just compare Iraq to Nazi Germany? Jesus fucking Christ. The power and actions of those two nations are nowhere near comparable.

[Gandalf]

miles it doesn't change the fact that we're there....do you get where I'm coming from?



And even if there were never any WMDs or anything like that all Saddam had to do was play ball and everything would have been fine but nooooo Saddam had to be a big shot and try to show us up and we called his bluff and now he's dead and we're well within our rights to call someone out on a treaty they agreed to or else the whole idea of signing a treaty is bogus.


Had someone done that with Germany a while back then well let's just say a lot of shit could have been avoided

There were no WMDs. The war was built on false premises.

Comparing it to Nazi Germany is way off too. The Germans were a obviously a threat with a heap of military build up and a worrying tendency to keep trying to expand their borders. A hugely powerful country. Iraq was feeble and hadnt actually done anything to provoke the latest war. Except for these WMD's that didnt actually exist.

I agree with you that the US is now entrenched in Iraq. But the reasons they are still there are because there was no coherent plan in the first place. And like I said, Afghanistan is only deteriorating, and that was the primary target in response to the so called "terror threat". Iraq has nothing to do with that.

Anybody wanting a perpetuation of this administration must be out of their minds. You seem to be somewhat myopic when it comes to politics, Lyle. You will always defend your ideology no matter the moral vacuousness that sometimes entails. A lot of what has happened under this administration has been inhumane and fundamentally dishonest, and yet you continue to make excuses for what is very serious and basically wrong.

[Von Milash]

You don't know jack shit about your own country, so I'm going to assume you don't know anything about mine either.

The amount of welfare distributed in Canada is a fraction of what your joke of a government has spent on an internationally condemned illegal war in Iraq which has resulted in the maiming and deaths of tens of thousands of people, each of whom has the same value as yourself.

Canada has a fraction of the people of the US.


Oooh the war in Iraq has offended Canada alert the media

We do have less people than the US. Very astute. You said we spend "too much" money on welfare, that statement made no qualifications about population size.

The Iraq war has not offended Canada, it has however almost universally disgusted anyone with a brain worldwide, it has also resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of people,

One could even make the assertion that the thousands of American soldiers coming home in body bags and the tens of thousands coming home without limbs and faces are more deserving of their lot than the innocent Iraqi's who have died, considering those same soldiers freely (economics and governmental propaganda aside) signed on to enforce the will of the people they are representing, the same people who started this war without any legitimate cause.

Have you ever considered how shameful this war is to the memory of those who died on 9/11?

It may be now, but it wasn't 7 years ago.

[CFH]

Canada has a fraction of the people of the US.


Oooh the war in Iraq has offended Canada alert the media

We do have less people than the US. Very astute. You said we spend "too much" money on welfare, that statement made no qualifications about population size.

The Iraq war has not offended Canada, it has however almost universally disgusted anyone with a brain worldwide, it has also resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of people,

One could even make the assertion that the thousands of American soldiers coming home in body bags and the tens of thousands coming home without limbs and faces are more deserving of their lot than the innocent Iraqi's who have died, considering those same soldiers freely (economics and governmental propaganda aside) signed on to enforce the will of the people they are representing, the same people who started this war without any legitimate cause.

Have you ever considered how shameful this war is to the memory of those who died on 9/11?

It may be now, but it wasn't 7 years ago.

Yes it was. That makes zero sense. Just because a large number of people were too blinded by rage and a thirst for revenge to see what was happening doesn't mean it was not a shame. The government used the names of people who were murdered to perpetrate more killing against other innocent people.