kelly pavlik against past middle and light heavyweights

[ICB]

He would beat Hearns imo.

McCallum, Jones, Hopkins, Eubank, Hagler the list is endless that would school him.

I'm not sure I would put McCallum or Eubank on that list. Hagler, Monzon, Jones, and Toney, for sure.

I would bro Mike McCallum at his best had a granite chin, great technical skills. And was a terrific body puncher and Kelly Pavlik would be virtually, doubling over after about the 8th round or 9th round. Plus Kelly Pavlik's power wouldn't dent Mike McCallum IMO. Because remember Mike McCallum beat Julian Jackson and took his power, and Julian Jackson is a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik for certain.

Chris Eubank fought Nigel Benn who was also a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik was. And Nigel Benn couldn't even wobble or effect Chris Eubank one bit, Chris Eubank even moved up to Cruiserweight and fought a good puncher in Carl Thompson.

And never looked close to going down but he actually put Carl Thompson down, and had him wobbling quite a few times. The point im making Chris Eubank at his best had one of the best chins i've ever seen, and had enough power to wear out Kelly Pavlik late on, and stop him in a battle chins/will.

[RozzySean]

He would beat Hearns imo.

McCallum, Jones, Hopkins, Eubank, Hagler the list is endless that would school him.

I'm not sure I would put McCallum or Eubank on that list. Hagler, Monzon, Jones, and Toney, for sure.

I would bro Mike McCallum at his best had a granite chin, great technical skills. And was a terrific body puncher and Kelly Pavlik would be virtually, doubling over after about the 8th round or 9th round. Plus Kelly Pavlik's power wouldn't dent Mike McCallum IMO. Because remember Mike McCallum beat Julian Jackson and took his power, and Julian Jackson is a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik for certain.

Chris Eubank fought Nigel Benn who was also a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik was. And Nigel Benn couldn't even wobble or effect Chris Eubank one bit, Chris Eubank even moved up to Cruiserweight and fought a good puncher in Carl Thompson.

And never looked close to going down but he actually put Carl Thompson down, and had him wobbling quite a few times. The point im making Chris Eubank at his best had one of the best chins i've ever seen, and had enough power to wear out Kelly Pavlik late on, and stop him in a battle chins/will.

I'm not claiming Pavlik beats them, but he doesn't get "schooled."

McCallum sparked out china-chin Jackson in two, not exactly a true test. You also predict Jackson over Pavlik in 2, which is a silly statement. Pavlik would likely have Julian Jackson out in 2. Pavlik's reach would have the potential to give McCallum a very hard time. You have to get past that reach to get to the body. Pavlik's a much bigger man, and that would have an impact. This would be a very close fight.

Same with Eubank. This is a very close fight. Maybe Eubank comes out on top, but I wouldn't bet on him to "school" Pavlik.

To me, if a fighter gets schooled, it means he's completely outclassed...either by lack of skill, difficult matchup, or both. Examples Tito against Winky or ODLH against Mayorga. I wouldn't expect McCallum or Eubank to make Pavlik look bad. They are both close fights, whereas Hagler, Monzon, or Jones would make Kelly look stupid. Savy?

[Fenster]

Of all the names listed so far I think Pavlik would be a game challenger but loses to all of them.

Maybe in a few years Pavlik will prove himself to be a "great" fighter and be worthy of being ranked alongside other "great" fighters.. although I doubt it.

[ICB]

I'm not sure I would put McCallum or Eubank on that list. Hagler, Monzon, Jones, and Toney, for sure.

I would bro Mike McCallum at his best had a granite chin, great technical skills. And was a terrific body puncher and Kelly Pavlik would be virtually, doubling over after about the 8th round or 9th round. Plus Kelly Pavlik's power wouldn't dent Mike McCallum IMO. Because remember Mike McCallum beat Julian Jackson and took his power, and Julian Jackson is a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik for certain.

Chris Eubank fought Nigel Benn who was also a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik was. And Nigel Benn couldn't even wobble or effect Chris Eubank one bit, Chris Eubank even moved up to Cruiserweight and fought a good puncher in Carl Thompson.

And never looked close to going down but he actually put Carl Thompson down, and had him wobbling quite a few times. The point im making Chris Eubank at his best had one of the best chins i've ever seen, and had enough power to wear out Kelly Pavlik late on, and stop him in a battle chins/will.

I'm not claiming Pavlik beats them, but he doesn't get "schooled."

McCallum sparked out china-chin Jackson in two, not exactly a true test. You also predict Jackson over Pavlik in 2, which is a silly statement. Pavlik would likely have Julian Jackson out in 2. Pavlik's reach would have the potential to give McCallum a very hard time. You have to get past that reach to get to the body. Pavlik's a much bigger man, and that would have an impact. This would be a very close fight.

Same with Eubank. This is a very close fight. Maybe Eubank comes out on top, but I wouldn't bet on him to "school" Pavlik.

To me, if a fighter gets schooled, it means he's completely outclassed...either by lack of skill, difficult matchup, or both. Examples Tito against Winky or ODLH against Mayorga. I wouldn't expect McCallum or Eubank to make Pavlik look bad. They are both close fights, whereas Hagler, Monzon, or Jones would make Kelly look stupid. Savy?

I don't see why predicting Julian Jackson over Kelly Pavlik in 2 is a silly statement, and i don't think Julian Jackson's chin was as weak as you claim. And i don't think Kelly Pavlik's chin is that solid either, he just has good recovery skills.

Julian Jackson was a very fast starter and Kelly Pavlik has been caught early a few times, against Zuniga, Taylor. If Julian Jackson KD's Kelly Pavlik he isn't getting up simple as, Julian Jackson's power are almost out of this world.

I understand what your saying now your saying that McCallum, Eubank, are not in the same league, as RJJ, Toney, etc. In terms of schooling Pavlik, i didn't know you was implying that.

I agree with that but i don't think Carlos Monzon school's Kelly Pavlik either, i think there similar style wise and it would be a battle of the jabs. And there right hands but i think Carlos Monzon's superior chin would be the edge in the fight.

[RozzySean]

I would bro Mike McCallum at his best had a granite chin, great technical skills. And was a terrific body puncher and Kelly Pavlik would be virtually, doubling over after about the 8th round or 9th round. Plus Kelly Pavlik's power wouldn't dent Mike McCallum IMO. Because remember Mike McCallum beat Julian Jackson and took his power, and Julian Jackson is a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik for certain.

Chris Eubank fought Nigel Benn who was also a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik was. And Nigel Benn couldn't even wobble or effect Chris Eubank one bit, Chris Eubank even moved up to Cruiserweight and fought a good puncher in Carl Thompson.

And never looked close to going down but he actually put Carl Thompson down, and had him wobbling quite a few times. The point im making Chris Eubank at his best had one of the best chins i've ever seen, and had enough power to wear out Kelly Pavlik late on, and stop him in a battle chins/will.

I'm not claiming Pavlik beats them, but he doesn't get "schooled."

McCallum sparked out china-chin Jackson in two, not exactly a true test. You also predict Jackson over Pavlik in 2, which is a silly statement. Pavlik would likely have Julian Jackson out in 2. Pavlik's reach would have the potential to give McCallum a very hard time. You have to get past that reach to get to the body. Pavlik's a much bigger man, and that would have an impact. This would be a very close fight.

Same with Eubank. This is a very close fight. Maybe Eubank comes out on top, but I wouldn't bet on him to "school" Pavlik.

To me, if a fighter gets schooled, it means he's completely outclassed...either by lack of skill, difficult matchup, or both. Examples Tito against Winky or ODLH against Mayorga. I wouldn't expect McCallum or Eubank to make Pavlik look bad. They are both close fights, whereas Hagler, Monzon, or Jones would make Kelly look stupid. Savy?

I don't see why predicting Julian Jackson over Kelly Pavlik in 2 is a silly statement, and i don't think Julian Jackson's chin was as weak as you claim. And i don't think Kelly Pavlik's chin is that solid either, he just has good recovery skills.

Julian Jackson was a very fast starter and Kelly Pavlik has been caught early a few times, against Zuniga, Taylor. If Julian Jackson KD's Kelly Pavlik he isn't getting up simple as, Julian Jackson's power are almost out of this world.

I understand what your saying now your saying that McCallum, Eubank, are not in the same league, as RJJ, Toney, etc. In terms of schooling Pavlik, i didn't know you was implying that.

I agree with that but i don't think Carlos Monzon school's Kelly Pavlik either, i think there similar style wise and it would be a battle of the jabs. And there right hands but i think Carlos Monzon's superior chin would be the edge in the fight.

Come one, Jackson had a china chin. Look at his record. Every loss by KO, even to guys who aren't known as big punchers. Pavlik backed up and took out Edson Miranda, who is P4P not as big a puncher as Jackson, but Miranda is a much bigger guy with very good power. I would give Jackson a punchers chance against Pavlik, but I think it is far more likely that Pavlik sparks out Jackson than Jackson sparks out Pavlik. Either way, the fight ain't going the distance, but I don't see how you could make Jackson a favorite.

[ICB]

I'm not claiming Pavlik beats them, but he doesn't get "schooled."

McCallum sparked out china-chin Jackson in two, not exactly a true test. You also predict Jackson over Pavlik in 2, which is a silly statement. Pavlik would likely have Julian Jackson out in 2. Pavlik's reach would have the potential to give McCallum a very hard time. You have to get past that reach to get to the body. Pavlik's a much bigger man, and that would have an impact. This would be a very close fight.

Same with Eubank. This is a very close fight. Maybe Eubank comes out on top, but I wouldn't bet on him to "school" Pavlik.

To me, if a fighter gets schooled, it means he's completely outclassed...either by lack of skill, difficult matchup, or both. Examples Tito against Winky or ODLH against Mayorga. I wouldn't expect McCallum or Eubank to make Pavlik look bad. They are both close fights, whereas Hagler, Monzon, or Jones would make Kelly look stupid. Savy?

I don't see why predicting Julian Jackson over Kelly Pavlik in 2 is a silly statement, and i don't think Julian Jackson's chin was as weak as you claim. And i don't think Kelly Pavlik's chin is that solid either, he just has good recovery skills.

Julian Jackson was a very fast starter and Kelly Pavlik has been caught early a few times, against Zuniga, Taylor. If Julian Jackson KD's Kelly Pavlik he isn't getting up simple as, Julian Jackson's power are almost out of this world.

I understand what your saying now your saying that McCallum, Eubank, are not in the same league, as RJJ, Toney, etc. In terms of schooling Pavlik, i didn't know you was implying that.

I agree with that but i don't think Carlos Monzon school's Kelly Pavlik either, i think there similar style wise and it would be a battle of the jabs. And there right hands but i think Carlos Monzon's superior chin would be the edge in the fight.

Come one, Jackson had a china chin. Look at his record. Every loss by KO, even to guys who aren't known as big punchers. Pavlik backed up and took out Edson Miranda, who is P4P not as big a puncher as Jackson, but Miranda is a much bigger guy with very good power. I would give Jackson a punchers chance against Pavlik, but I think it is far more likely that Pavlik sparks out Jackson than Jackson sparks out Pavlik. Either way, the fight ain't going the distance, but I don't see how you could make Jackson a favorite.

Julian Jackson was stopped on his feet against Mike McCallum which was a bit of a premature stoppage. Against Gerald McClellan he took big shots, and was holding his own until finally the punishment caught up with him. And he was dropped heavily by a right hand, then a left hook which almost sent him through the ropes. He got up but he got put down again but you know what ? he got up again and was stopped on his feet. And remember this was when Julian Jackson was past his prime with a detached retina, his other losses after this one don't really count.

Edison Miranda had weight problems and he looked weak IMO, im not taking anything away from Kelly Pavlik. He would of beat Edison Miranda no matter what, but Edison Miranda did look weight drained and weak to me. His punches had no fire on them, and he isn't a good fighter on the backfoot, so Kelly Pavlik could walkthrough those punches, because Edison Miranda wasn't get his bodyweight or planting his feet into the shots, he was mostly throwing arm punches.

I can't see Kelly Pavlik walking through Julian Jackson's shots no way, and he wouldn't put Julian Jackson on the backfoot either. I make Julian Jackson the favorite because Kelly Pavlik isn't 1 punch KO artist, even though he is a big puncher it normally takes an accumulation of punches. For Kelly Pavlik to take out his opponents, where as with Julian Jackson it only takes one.

And yet again i don't think, Julian Jackson had a china chin. He certainly didn't have a good/solid chin, but its not as weak as you claim. But i don't really think it would matter in this case. Kelly Pavlik gets caught early, and Julian Jackson is a fast starter. I think if Kelly Pavlik won this fight he wouldn't do it early, it would take him about 6 rounds to take out Julian Jackson, but i can't see Kelly Pavlik lasting that long to get to Julian Jackson. Hence why i have Julian Jackson as the favorite.

[RozzySean]

I don't see why predicting Julian Jackson over Kelly Pavlik in 2 is a silly statement, and i don't think Julian Jackson's chin was as weak as you claim. And i don't think Kelly Pavlik's chin is that solid either, he just has good recovery skills.

Julian Jackson was a very fast starter and Kelly Pavlik has been caught early a few times, against Zuniga, Taylor. If Julian Jackson KD's Kelly Pavlik he isn't getting up simple as, Julian Jackson's power are almost out of this world.

I understand what your saying now your saying that McCallum, Eubank, are not in the same league, as RJJ, Toney, etc. In terms of schooling Pavlik, i didn't know you was implying that.

I agree with that but i don't think Carlos Monzon school's Kelly Pavlik either, i think there similar style wise and it would be a battle of the jabs. And there right hands but i think Carlos Monzon's superior chin would be the edge in the fight.

Come one, Jackson had a china chin. Look at his record. Every loss by KO, even to guys who aren't known as big punchers. Pavlik backed up and took out Edson Miranda, who is P4P not as big a puncher as Jackson, but Miranda is a much bigger guy with very good power. I would give Jackson a punchers chance against Pavlik, but I think it is far more likely that Pavlik sparks out Jackson than Jackson sparks out Pavlik. Either way, the fight ain't going the distance, but I don't see how you could make Jackson a favorite.

Julian Jackson was stopped on his feet against Mike McCallum which was a bit of a premature stoppage. Against Gerald McClellan he took big shots, and was holding his own until finally the punishment caught up with him. And he was dropped heavily by a right hand, then a left hook which almost sent him through the ropes. He got up but he got put down again but you know what ? he got up again and was stopped on his feet. And remember this was when Julian Jackson was past his prime with a detached retina, his other losses after this one don't really count.

Edison Miranda had weight problems and he looked weak IMO, im not taking anything away from Kelly Pavlik. He would of beat Edison Miranda no matter what, but Edison Miranda did look weight drained and weak to me. His punches had no fire on them, and he isn't a good fighter on the backfoot, so Kelly Pavlik could walkthrough those punches, because Edison Miranda wasn't get his bodyweight or planting his feet into the shots, he was mostly throwing arm punches.

I can't see Kelly Pavlik walking through Julian Jackson's shots no way, and he wouldn't put Julian Jackson on the backfoot either. I make Julian Jackson the favorite because Kelly Pavlik isn't 1 punch KO artist, even though he is a big puncher it normally takes an accumulation of punches. For Kelly Pavlik to take out his opponents, where as with Julian Jackson it only takes one.

And yet again i don't think, Julian Jackson had a china chin. He certainly didn't have a good/solid chin, but its not as weak as you claim. But i don't really think it would matter in this case. Kelly Pavlik gets caught early, and Julian Jackson is a fast starter. I think if Kelly Pavlik won this fight he wouldn't do it early, it would take him about 6 rounds to take out Julian Jackson, but i can't see Kelly Pavlik lasting that long to get to Julian Jackson. Hence why i have Julian Jackson as the favorite.

I understand what you mean by Jackson being a fast starter, but Pavlik has backed up everybody he has faced. Jackson could punch, but I can't see Pavlik not being able to back him up, thus making it harder for him to unload the big shot.

Pavlik also isn't a stupid fighter, and I think he would respect Jackson's punching power and not leave his chin out like he did against Taylor. Also, I think Pavlik does have one punch power, but it takes him time to set up his shot.

[JT Rock]

Kelly Pavlik isn't 1 punch KO artist, even though he is a big puncher it normally takes an accumulation of punches. For Kelly Pavlik to take out his opponents,
.

Just because we were talking about this on another thread, I have to ask how you rate a power puncher Seems like your criteria changes from thread to thread

[ICB]

Kelly Pavlik isn't 1 punch KO artist, even though he is a big puncher it normally takes an accumulation of punches. For Kelly Pavlik to take out his opponents,
.

Just because we were talking about this on another thread, I have to ask how you rate a power puncher Seems like your criteria changes from thread to thread

Kelly Pavlik is a good puncher but he hasn't got the kind of 1 punch KO Julian Jackson has.

[Spicoli]

He would beat Hearns imo.

McCallum, Jones, Hopkins, Eubank, Hagler the list is endless that would school him.

I'm not sure I would put McCallum or Eubank on that list. Hagler, Monzon, Jones, and Toney, for sure.

I would bro Mike McCallum at his best had a granite chin, great technical skills. And was a terrific body puncher and Kelly Pavlik would be virtually, doubling over after about the 8th round or 9th round. Plus Kelly Pavlik's power wouldn't dent Mike McCallum IMO. Because remember Mike McCallum beat Julian Jackson and took his power, and Julian Jackson is a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik for certain.

Chris Eubank fought Nigel Benn who was also a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik was. And Nigel Benn couldn't even wobble or effect Chris Eubank one bit, Chris Eubank even moved up to Cruiserweight and fought a good puncher in Carl Thompson.

And never looked close to going down but he actually put Carl Thompson down, and had him wobbling quite a few times. The point im making Chris Eubank at his best had one of the best chins i've ever seen, and had enough power to wear out Kelly Pavlik late on, and stop him in a battle chins/will.

I seem to remember Benn having some effect on Eubank in the first brutal battle ICB.All in all he held up well and came back great but was dropped from a right on the side of the head in the 8th,though Eubank claimed he was off balance,also I thought Benn fazed him early in the rematch.I agree on the general statement....Eubanks had a great chin but he was definatly effected by Benn on a few occasions and stated that he felt the pain like never before.

[ICB]

I'm not sure I would put McCallum or Eubank on that list. Hagler, Monzon, Jones, and Toney, for sure.

I would bro Mike McCallum at his best had a granite chin, great technical skills. And was a terrific body puncher and Kelly Pavlik would be virtually, doubling over after about the 8th round or 9th round. Plus Kelly Pavlik's power wouldn't dent Mike McCallum IMO. Because remember Mike McCallum beat Julian Jackson and took his power, and Julian Jackson is a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik for certain.

Chris Eubank fought Nigel Benn who was also a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik was. And Nigel Benn couldn't even wobble or effect Chris Eubank one bit, Chris Eubank even moved up to Cruiserweight and fought a good puncher in Carl Thompson.

And never looked close to going down but he actually put Carl Thompson down, and had him wobbling quite a few times. The point im making Chris Eubank at his best had one of the best chins i've ever seen, and had enough power to wear out Kelly Pavlik late on, and stop him in a battle chins/will.

I seem to remember Benn having some effect on Eubank in the first brutal battle ICB.All in all he held up well and came back great but was dropped from a right on the side of the head in the 8th,though Eubank claimed he was off balance,also I thought Benn fazed him early in the rematch.I agree on the general statement....Eubanks had a great chin but he was definatly effected by Benn on a few occasions and stated that he felt the pain like never before.

Chris Eubank clearly slipped against Nigel Benn that wasn't a proper KD. And what i meant but having no effect, is that Chris Eubank was never wobbled or showed any signs of being hurt.

Of course obviously he was hurt but he never showed any signs of it, and that goes to show you much will the man had along with how hard his chin was.

[Markusdarkus]

I would bro Mike McCallum at his best had a granite chin, great technical skills. And was a terrific body puncher and Kelly Pavlik would be virtually, doubling over after about the 8th round or 9th round. Plus Kelly Pavlik's power wouldn't dent Mike McCallum IMO. Because remember Mike McCallum beat Julian Jackson and took his power, and Julian Jackson is a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik for certain.

Chris Eubank fought Nigel Benn who was also a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik was. And Nigel Benn couldn't even wobble or effect Chris Eubank one bit, Chris Eubank even moved up to Cruiserweight and fought a good puncher in Carl Thompson.

And never looked close to going down but he actually put Carl Thompson down, and had him wobbling quite a few times. The point im making Chris Eubank at his best had one of the best chins i've ever seen, and had enough power to wear out Kelly Pavlik late on, and stop him in a battle chins/will.

I seem to remember Benn having some effect on Eubank in the first brutal battle ICB.All in all he held up well and came back great but was dropped from a right on the side of the head in the 8th,though Eubank claimed he was off balance,also I thought Benn fazed him early in the rematch.I agree on the general statement....Eubanks had a great chin but he was definatly effected by Benn on a few occasions and stated that he felt the pain like never before.

Chris Eubank clearly slipped against Nigel Benn that wasn't a proper KD. And what i meant but having no effect, is that Chris Eubank was never wobbled or showed any signs of being hurt.

Of course obviously he was hurt but he never showed any signs of it, and that goes to show you much will the man had along with how hard his chin was.

Chris was hurt to the body

But man he had a:::::::::::::::


CCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNN

One of the greatest chins of all time, Eubank got hit with BOMBS and just smiled.

[Spicoli]

I would bro Mike McCallum at his best had a granite chin, great technical skills. And was a terrific body puncher and Kelly Pavlik would be virtually, doubling over after about the 8th round or 9th round. Plus Kelly Pavlik's power wouldn't dent Mike McCallum IMO. Because remember Mike McCallum beat Julian Jackson and took his power, and Julian Jackson is a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik for certain.

Chris Eubank fought Nigel Benn who was also a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik was. And Nigel Benn couldn't even wobble or effect Chris Eubank one bit, Chris Eubank even moved up to Cruiserweight and fought a good puncher in Carl Thompson.

And never looked close to going down but he actually put Carl Thompson down, and had him wobbling quite a few times. The point im making Chris Eubank at his best had one of the best chins i've ever seen, and had enough power to wear out Kelly Pavlik late on, and stop him in a battle chins/will.

I seem to remember Benn having some effect on Eubank in the first brutal battle ICB.All in all he held up well and came back great but was dropped from a right on the side of the head in the 8th,though Eubank claimed he was off balance,also I thought Benn fazed him early in the rematch.I agree on the general statement....Eubanks had a great chin but he was definatly effected by Benn on a few occasions and stated that he felt the pain like never before.

Chris Eubank clearly slipped against Nigel Benn that wasn't a proper KD. And what i meant but having no effect, is that Chris Eubank was never wobbled or showed any signs of being hurt.

Of course obviously he was hurt but he never showed any signs of it, and that goes to show you much will the man had along with how hard his chin was.

I hear what your saying but if a man hits you on the side of the head and your rear right foot & comes out from under you,you go down,thats a legit KD,not pretty but legit.Clearly though...Eubank was not hurt when he rose and kept yelling slip,slip.For all of they're stated dislike,these guys showed class when the first was over.Good scrap.

[Markusdarkus]

I seem to remember Benn having some effect on Eubank in the first brutal battle ICB.All in all he held up well and came back great but was dropped from a right on the side of the head in the 8th,though Eubank claimed he was off balance,also I thought Benn fazed him early in the rematch.I agree on the general statement....Eubanks had a great chin but he was definatly effected by Benn on a few occasions and stated that he felt the pain like never before.

Chris Eubank clearly slipped against Nigel Benn that wasn't a proper KD. And what i meant but having no effect, is that Chris Eubank was never wobbled or showed any signs of being hurt.

Of course obviously he was hurt but he never showed any signs of it, and that goes to show you much will the man had along with how hard his chin was.

I hear what your saying but if a man hits you on the side of the head and your rear right foot & comes out from under you,you go down,thats a legit KD,not pretty but legit.Clearly though...Eubank was not hurt when he rose and kept yelling slip,slip.For all of they're stated dislike,these guys showed class when the first was over.Good scrap.

Was a slip, Eubank is the most honest boxer ive ever met/heard about.

He said the only time he was ever hurt was in that fight to the body and in the second Watson fight.

[Markusdarkus]

McCallum was unttterly robbed in the first Toney fight i will add. Its down as a draw but man it was worse than Lewis v Holyfield I.