kelly pavlik against past middle and light heavyweights

[CFH]

Are you 4 real??

You wouldnt put McCallum or Eubank on that list?

I actually think McCallum was better than Hagler and Eubank had a chin so tough Pavlik would get tired hitting him then Eubanks would just take him out.

Can you elaborate further on that controversial statement?

Watching the two (prime4prime) i think McCallum would have taken Hagler. Hagler and Hearns ducked Mike, both have said so.

McCallum against (Real 160lb fighters) Watson, Graham, Collins, Jackson) was truely great. He also beat a great 147lb fighter in better Fashion than Hagler did in Don Curry.

Hagler is top 3 all time fav fighters i just think mid 80s at 160 Mike would have beat him on points.

Mike McCallum one of the greatest under-rated fighters ever. The body snatcher was the man.

I don't dispute that McCallum was a great fighter, but Hagler is an ATG.

Regardless of weight, Hagler's best wins are head and shoulders above those of McCallum.

[Markusdarkus]

Can you elaborate further on that controversial statement?

Watching the two (prime4prime) i think McCallum would have taken Hagler. Hagler and Hearns ducked Mike, both have said so.

McCallum against (Real 160lb fighters) Watson, Graham, Collins, Jackson) was truely great. He also beat a great 147lb fighter in better Fashion than Hagler did in Don Curry.

Hagler is top 3 all time fav fighters i just think mid 80s at 160 Mike would have beat him on points.

Mike McCallum one of the greatest under-rated fighters ever. The body snatcher was the man.

I don't dispute that McCallum was a great fighter, but Hagler is an ATG.

Regardless of weight, Hagler's best wins are head and shoulders above those of McCallum.

McCullum is an ATG.

Are Haglers really better? MCCullum best 6 wins:

1. James Toney (prime)
2. Don Curry
3. Steve Collins
4. Michael Watson (Who schooled Been and Eubank)
5. Julian Jackson (In 2, first Jackson loss)
6. Herol Graham


McCallum was ducked by all the greats, why? because he was a great.

Listen a bigger Hagler fan you wont find, i still think McCallum (prime) was better all round and takes a UD.

[ICB]

Watching the two (prime4prime) i think McCallum would have taken Hagler. Hagler and Hearns ducked Mike, both have said so.

McCallum against (Real 160lb fighters) Watson, Graham, Collins, Jackson) was truely great. He also beat a great 147lb fighter in better Fashion than Hagler did in Don Curry.

Hagler is top 3 all time fav fighters i just think mid 80s at 160 Mike would have beat him on points.

Mike McCallum one of the greatest under-rated fighters ever. The body snatcher was the man.

I don't dispute that McCallum was a great fighter, but Hagler is an ATG.

Regardless of weight, Hagler's best wins are head and shoulders above those of McCallum.

McCullum is an ATG.

Are Haglers really better? MCCullum best 6 wins:

1. James Toney (prime)
2. Don Curry
3. Steve Collins
4. Michael Watson (Who schooled Been and Eubank)
5. Julian Jackson (In 2 first Jabkson loss)
6. Herol Graham

I agree with you Marvin Hagler's resume isn't that much better, and infact you should put Sumbu Kalambay on Mike McCallum's list. He was a terrific fighter who beat Herol Graham x2, Iran Barkley, Doug DeWitt, Robbie Simms, Steve Collins.

[Markusdarkus]

I don't dispute that McCallum was a great fighter, but Hagler is an ATG.

Regardless of weight, Hagler's best wins are head and shoulders above those of McCallum.

McCullum is an ATG.

Are Haglers really better? MCCullum best 6 wins:

1. James Toney (prime)
2. Don Curry
3. Steve Collins
4. Michael Watson (Who schooled Been and Eubank)
5. Julian Jackson (In 2 first Jabkson loss)
6. Herol Graham

I agree with you Marvin Hagler's resume isn't that much better, and infact you should put Sumbu Kalambay on Mike McCallum's list. He was a terrific fighter who beat Herol Graham x2, Iran Barkley, Doug DeWitt, Robbie Simms, Steve Collins.

Im sick of the way McCallum gets knocked because he didnt get to beat up on 147lb`rs Hearns and Leonard.

Past it he beat up prime James Toney he beat Herol Graham, Jackson, Watson, Steve Collins, Kalambay. When you look at it a guy that was a natural LMW he is great.

McCallum mid 80s was more avoided than any fighter in History. Thats why he fought Herol Graham another fighter openly ducked by Hearns.

[CFH]

Watching the two (prime4prime) i think McCallum would have taken Hagler. Hagler and Hearns ducked Mike, both have said so.

McCallum against (Real 160lb fighters) Watson, Graham, Collins, Jackson) was truely great. He also beat a great 147lb fighter in better Fashion than Hagler did in Don Curry.

Hagler is top 3 all time fav fighters i just think mid 80s at 160 Mike would have beat him on points.

Mike McCallum one of the greatest under-rated fighters ever. The body snatcher was the man.

I don't dispute that McCallum was a great fighter, but Hagler is an ATG.

Regardless of weight, Hagler's best wins are head and shoulders above those of McCallum.

McCullum is an ATG.

Are Haglers really better? MCCullum best 6 wins:

1. James Toney (prime)
2. Don Curry
3. Steve Collins
4. Michael Watson (Who schooled Been and Eubank)
5. Julian Jackson (In 2, first Jackson loss)
6. Herol Graham


McCallum was ducked by all the greats, why? because he was a great.

Listen a bigger Hagler fan you wont find, i still think McCallum (prime) was better all round and takes a UD.

Fair enough, hard to argue with most of that. I feel Hagler's wins are better, but I concede that you can make a case for McCallum.

[DaxxKahn]

He beats Hearns if he catches Tommy anytime after the 8th with some nbig big thunder..If he last past 4

Hagler beats him down like a mugger in 7 or 8...Marvin had a granite chin and Kelly would learn quickly the difference between the Marvelous on and Miranda or JT...

Monzon brings him to war and stops him...

At LH Jones boxes him into embaressment...At SMW he sends the Ghost to the canvas in 3....at most...

At LHW Micheal Spinks gives him a boxing lesson...

Archie Moore shows how tough an old man can be if you take a fight lightly...

Pretty much as Mick said...It is wayyy too early to even consider Pavlik in these matches

[Markusdarkus]

I don't dispute that McCallum was a great fighter, but Hagler is an ATG.

Regardless of weight, Hagler's best wins are head and shoulders above those of McCallum.

McCullum is an ATG.

Are Haglers really better? MCCullum best 6 wins:

1. James Toney (prime)
2. Don Curry
3. Steve Collins
4. Michael Watson (Who schooled Been and Eubank)
5. Julian Jackson (In 2, first Jackson loss)
6. Herol Graham


McCallum was ducked by all the greats, why? because he was a great.

Listen a bigger Hagler fan you wont find, i still think McCallum (prime) was better all round and takes a UD.

Fair enough, hard to argue with most of that. I feel Hagler's wins are better, but I concede that you can make a case for McCallum.

Both ATG i just feel had Mike fought Tommy and Ray he would get his dues.

Us real fans know how great Mike was in every department

[Markusdarkus]

33yo McCallum vs Watson who in prior fight destroyed Nigel Benn:


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy5NiBY1tFM


Total war but Mike pulled through.

[Mr140]

Well all i got to say is this i feel Sugar Ray Leonard was a better fighter then the body snatch was i give him a chance to knock Hearns out. But i think Sugar Ray Leonard would out box him if he was fighting prime for prime SRL takes it hands down for me feel he was a better boxer.

[Markusdarkus]

Well all i got to say is this i feel Sugar Ray Leonard was a better fighter then the body snatch was i give him a chance to knock Hearns out. But i think Sugar Ray Leonard would out box him if he was fighting prime for prime SRL takes it hands down for me feel he was a better boxer.

On what basis?

P4P its 50-50 at 154 or 160 your not saying he beats Mike?

[Mr140]

I said pound for pound i say the version Sugar Ray Leonard at the weight of 147 could beat the version of body snatch at 154. Kinda silly to make the fight anyhow both were prime at different weights. Also if Mike did not lose to Kalambay he would of had a fight with Duran or Hearns.

[Mr140]

If they fought above i am not sure could go either way. Ray Leonard lost alot of prime years because of the eye thing not sure we got the best of him because of it but i feel he had the chin and the speed to outbox the body snatcher so yea i going with Sugar Ray Leonard to win the fight so yea i going with that.

[Markusdarkus]

I said pound for pound i say the version Sugar Ray Leonard at the weight of 147 could beat the version of body snatch at 154. Kinda silly to make the fight anyhow both were prime at different weights. Also if Mike did not lose to Kalambay he would of had a fight with Duran or Hearns.

Ray Leonard was great but Prime 4 Prime at 154lbs Leonard wouldnt have lasted 10rds.

[Markusdarkus]

If they fought above i am not sure could go either way. Ray Leonard lost alot of prime years because of the eye thing not sure we got the best of him because of it but i feel he had the chin and the speed to outbox the body snatcher so yea i going with Sugar Ray Leonard to win the fight so yea i going with that.

Mike knocked out or stopped 8 fighters that had had either never been stopped b4 or after.

Boxing is so subjective i love it. But to suggest Leonard hangs with McCallum at 154 pr 160 is new to me. Don Curry all over again maybe earlier.

As Mike said:

"I leave the welterweights to Marvin, i mean he wont fight me he wont fight Graham. Its all his is good for"

[Mr140]

To be fair no of those men was Sugar Ray Leonard and no way he stopping Sugar Ray Leonard only time he was stop was when he was 41.