What is with this site and Kelly Pavlik

[Taeth]

How the fuck can you say Glen Johnson isn't indestructible? He has taken punches from the heaviest punchers in the Light heavyweight division, and he has never gone down once. The only time he got stoped was in the middleweight fight against Hopkins, and I think you should watch that fight because maybe you don't remember the drumbing he took from Bernard who hit him with way more punches than PAvlik would.

Your an idiot for saying Kessler is a two trick pony, He has a great jab, he has a great cross, he biggest weapon is his left hook, and his right uppercut is deadly as well. Not to mention he is a terrific combination puncher, counter puncher, and general ring tactician, he is easily one of the top 10 p4p fighters, and he would destroy Pavlik.

Also did Calzaghe look wobbly at all after the shot he took from Hopkins? Did he get dropped by any of the huge right hands Kessler dropped on him? Pavlik doesn't one punch top end opponents, he isn't Thomas Hearns, and Calzaghe wouldn't let Pavlik physically bully him around. He didn't let a very strong Lacy, or a very strong Kessler bully him around either. Pavlik can't just walk through punches all night, he is more intelligent than that, and Calzaghe won't let Pavlik get off with his punches, it was Taylor's inactivity that allowed Pavlik to win that fight.

This answers two people. Chad Dawson could make 160 if he needed, he is very skiny, and wasn't always light heavyweight, also Pavlik is not a natural middleweight, why do you think he is a foot taller then half his opponents? Guys like him are the Paul Williams' of the middleweight division. Pavlik could easily be natural lightheavy weight, and we will see him up there before long. Whereas a guy like Hopkins fought at middleweight until he was 40. Pavlik will be the bigger man against Hopkins when they fight, and he is almost as big as Dawson naturally. I mean Taylor walks around bigger then most lightheavyweights and he looked smaller then Pavlik.

Also I never said Dawson was that great either, I don't think he would have beaten Glen Johnson five years ago, hell I think Glen had a draw with him, if Johnson didn't win that fight. I also think Tarver might have beaten Dawson 5 years ago. I think that Roy JOnes in his prime would have KO'ed current Dawson in about 3 rounds. I think Dawson has the potential to be very great.

What I ahve been saying is that Pavlik is a fine technical fighter in the style he fights, He does get hit, but so do most fighters coming forward, but he doesn't quite have the Ike Quartey, Winky WRight air tight defense. He throws all the punches well, he throws good combinations. But his flaws are his physical body, Sure he is very tall and strong, but he has ordinary speed, his chin is like Cotto's, its ok, but it isn't where it needs to be if he is going to get hit a lot in a fight by even a decent puncher. I also get the sense that if he got into a brutal fight his body wouldn't be able to take it just like Cotto and Thomas Hearns against Hagler, I see him fighting certain guys like Glen Johnson and them breaking him down. I am just saying don't overhype him because he beat Jermain Taylor, Bernard Hopkins deserved a win against Taylor, Winky WRight deserved a decision against Taylor, even arguably Cory Spinks deserved a decision against Taylor if you are going by effective punching and not who has more power, the middleweight? Or the featherfisted welterweight?

nobody is indestructable anybody can be beat by certain fighters. and kelly doesnt have a chin like cotto. kelly has great recovery. cotto has been hurt by zab,torres,corley,mosley, and most recently kod by tony. and i dont recall pavlik being hurt by miranda who punches hard as hell.

He did get hurt by Miranda, and who besides Miranda has Pavlik foughten that hits hard or landed a hart punch on him? Judah hits harder then Taylor p4p, As does Torres. Mosley never EVER hurt Cotto, where the hell did you get that from? Is it when Cotto slipped? Maybe you should watch the entire fight because Mosley I believe that exact same round slips in the EXACT same spot. Don't let HBO blowing their load throw you off. Cotto was severly weight drained when he fought at 140 thats his excuse, he looked like a skeleton at the weighins. Hell even Malignaggi got more respect with his punches then Mosley or Quintana did when COtto moved up to WW. Pavlik isn't badly weight drained to make middleweight.

[kingfrnk]

How the fuck can you say Glen Johnson isn't indestructible? He has taken punches from the heaviest punchers in the Light heavyweight division, and he has never gone down once. The only time he got stoped was in the middleweight fight against Hopkins, and I think you should watch that fight because maybe you don't remember the drumbing he took from Bernard who hit him with way more punches than PAvlik would.

Your an idiot for saying Kessler is a two trick pony, He has a great jab, he has a great cross, he biggest weapon is his left hook, and his right uppercut is deadly as well. Not to mention he is a terrific combination puncher, counter puncher, and general ring tactician, he is easily one of the top 10 p4p fighters, and he would destroy Pavlik.

Also did Calzaghe look wobbly at all after the shot he took from Hopkins? Did he get dropped by any of the huge right hands Kessler dropped on him? Pavlik doesn't one punch top end opponents, he isn't Thomas Hearns, and Calzaghe wouldn't let Pavlik physically bully him around. He didn't let a very strong Lacy, or a very strong Kessler bully him around either. Pavlik can't just walk through punches all night, he is more intelligent than that, and Calzaghe won't let Pavlik get off with his punches, it was Taylor's inactivity that allowed Pavlik to win that fight.

This answers two people. Chad Dawson could make 160 if he needed, he is very skiny, and wasn't always light heavyweight, also Pavlik is not a natural middleweight, why do you think he is a foot taller then half his opponents? Guys like him are the Paul Williams' of the middleweight division. Pavlik could easily be natural lightheavy weight, and we will see him up there before long. Whereas a guy like Hopkins fought at middleweight until he was 40. Pavlik will be the bigger man against Hopkins when they fight, and he is almost as big as Dawson naturally. I mean Taylor walks around bigger then most lightheavyweights and he looked smaller then Pavlik.

Also I never said Dawson was that great either, I don't think he would have beaten Glen Johnson five years ago, hell I think Glen had a draw with him, if Johnson didn't win that fight. I also think Tarver might have beaten Dawson 5 years ago. I think that Roy JOnes in his prime would have KO'ed current Dawson in about 3 rounds. I think Dawson has the potential to be very great.

What I ahve been saying is that Pavlik is a fine technical fighter in the style he fights, He does get hit, but so do most fighters coming forward, but he doesn't quite have the Ike Quartey, Winky WRight air tight defense. He throws all the punches well, he throws good combinations. But his flaws are his physical body, Sure he is very tall and strong, but he has ordinary speed, his chin is like Cotto's, its ok, but it isn't where it needs to be if he is going to get hit a lot in a fight by even a decent puncher. I also get the sense that if he got into a brutal fight his body wouldn't be able to take it just like Cotto and Thomas Hearns against Hagler, I see him fighting certain guys like Glen Johnson and them breaking him down. I am just saying don't overhype him because he beat Jermain Taylor, Bernard Hopkins deserved a win against Taylor, Winky WRight deserved a decision against Taylor, even arguably Cory Spinks deserved a decision against Taylor if you are going by effective punching and not who has more power, the middleweight? Or the featherfisted welterweight?

nobody is indestructable anybody can be beat by certain fighters. and kelly doesnt have a chin like cotto. kelly has great recovery. cotto has been hurt by zab,torres,corley,mosley, and most recently kod by tony. and i dont recall pavlik being hurt by miranda who punches hard as hell.

He did get hurt by Miranda, and who besides Miranda has Pavlik foughten that hits hard or landed a hart punch on him? Judah hits harder then Taylor p4p, As does Torres. Mosley never EVER hurt Cotto, where the hell did you get that from? Is it when Cotto slipped? Maybe you should watch the entire fight because Mosley I believe that exact same round slips in the EXACT same spot. Don't let HBO blowing their load throw you off. Cotto was severly weight drained when he fought at 140 thats his excuse, he looked like a skeleton at the weighins. Hell even Malignaggi got more respect with his punches then Mosley or Quintana did when COtto moved up to WW. Pavlik isn't badly weight drained to make middleweight.

why do u keep sayin who has kelly fought? he is still young stupid, and just barley started gettin these fights with bhop and JT. damn let the dude rest for a minute. and from wat i saw mosleey did hurt cotto a little, you tryna make it sound like i said he was fina get kod.

[Taeth]

nobody is indestructable anybody can be beat by certain fighters. and kelly doesnt have a chin like cotto. kelly has great recovery. cotto has been hurt by zab,torres,corley,mosley, and most recently kod by tony. and i dont recall pavlik being hurt by miranda who punches hard as hell.

He did get hurt by Miranda, and who besides Miranda has Pavlik foughten that hits hard or landed a hart punch on him? Judah hits harder then Taylor p4p, As does Torres. Mosley never EVER hurt Cotto, where the hell did you get that from? Is it when Cotto slipped? Maybe you should watch the entire fight because Mosley I believe that exact same round slips in the EXACT same spot. Don't let HBO blowing their load throw you off. Cotto was severly weight drained when he fought at 140 thats his excuse, he looked like a skeleton at the weighins. Hell even Malignaggi got more respect with his punches then Mosley or Quintana did when COtto moved up to WW. Pavlik isn't badly weight drained to make middleweight.

why do u keep sayin who has kelly fought? he is still young stupid, and just barley started gettin these fights with bhop and JT. damn let the dude rest for a minute. and from wat i saw mosleey did hurt cotto a little, you tryna make it sound like i said he was fina get kod.

I only saying who has Pavlik fought in terms of
1. A puncher
2. more then just one elite fighter who is riddled with flaws
3. a fighter who isn't 43 regardless of his accomplishments
4. a complete fighter with speed and power.

I am comparing Pavlik's chin to Cotto's in that its good, but its not elite level. It definitely hasn't shown that it can withstand a beating, if he was just suffered a flash knockdown against Taylor, or it was late in the fight after he had taken a ton of punches that would be one thing, but Taylor almost knocked him out with one punch, and Taylor couldn't knock out Cory Spinks or Ouma or any of the B calss or higher fighters he has faced, and yet he almost KO'ed Pavlik. Besides that Corley fight, every guy (Judah, Margarito, Torres) that has hurt Cotto has had from a good punch to a devastating punch(in Torres). Cotto didn't have problems with Quintana's power, with Abduallaev's power, with Mosley's power. In the Mosley fight it was the cut in his mouth, and him changing strategies to run out the clock that were the reasons Cotto was moving a lot. Against Judah and Margarito he never went down from a single punch like Pavlik did against Taylor, Judah hurt him, but Cotto was able to retaliate immediately with hard punches and recovered almost instantly, against Magarito the accumulation broke him down. So I think the comparison is fair, at least until Pavlik fights better fighters, which he will do.

[amat]

Who has anyone fought like that Taeth? Who has Kessler beat who fits that criteria, or Dawson? And what happened? Come on that's a bit of an unfair standard. Kessler-Pavlik would be a great Pavlik, Kessler has looked venerable moving back before he isn't a perfect fighter and he's not fighting Bernard Hopkins or anyone of the sort, he's fighting guys I've never heard of in Denmark.

Dawson is a great fighter and a great guy for the sport moving forward but they even said it in the buildup of the Harding fight that he grew and simply couldn't take the toll to become a super middleweight much less a middleweight. If anything he would meat Pavlik halfway he's not going back down.

[Hume]

kelly beat my man taylor, but he did it in such a way that it felt like taylor went out on his shield. pavlik is easy going and classy, which when combined with his technique and one punch show stopper, makes for a very likable and exciting fighter.

stop hating and learn to appreciate this wonderful talent.

[kingfrnk]

He did get hurt by Miranda, and who besides Miranda has Pavlik foughten that hits hard or landed a hart punch on him? Judah hits harder then Taylor p4p, As does Torres. Mosley never EVER hurt Cotto, where the hell did you get that from? Is it when Cotto slipped? Maybe you should watch the entire fight because Mosley I believe that exact same round slips in the EXACT same spot. Don't let HBO blowing their load throw you off. Cotto was severly weight drained when he fought at 140 thats his excuse, he looked like a skeleton at the weighins. Hell even Malignaggi got more respect with his punches then Mosley or Quintana did when COtto moved up to WW. Pavlik isn't badly weight drained to make middleweight.

why do u keep sayin who has kelly fought? he is still young stupid, and just barley started gettin these fights with bhop and JT. damn let the dude rest for a minute. and from wat i saw mosleey did hurt cotto a little, you tryna make it sound like i said he was fina get kod.

I only saying who has Pavlik fought in terms of
1. A puncher
2. more then just one elite fighter who is riddled with flaws
3. a fighter who isn't 43 regardless of his accomplishments
4. a complete fighter with speed and power.

I am comparing Pavlik's chin to Cotto's in that its good, but its not elite level. It definitely hasn't shown that it can withstand a beating, if he was just suffered a flash knockdown against Taylor, or it was late in the fight after he had taken a ton of punches that would be one thing, but Taylor almost knocked him out with one punch, and Taylor couldn't knock out Cory Spinks or Ouma or any of the B calss or higher fighters he has faced, and yet he almost KO'ed Pavlik. Besides that Corley fight, every guy (Judah, Margarito, Torres) that has hurt Cotto has had from a good punch to a devastating punch(in Torres). Cotto didn't have problems with Quintana's power, with Abduallaev's power, with Mosley's power. In the Mosley fight it was the cut in his mouth, and him changing strategies to run out the clock that were the reasons Cotto was moving a lot. Against Judah and Margarito he never went down from a single punch like Pavlik did against Taylor, Judah hurt him, but Cotto was able to retaliate immediately with hard punches and recovered almost instantly, against Magarito the accumulation broke him down. So I think the comparison is fair, at least until Pavlik fights better fighters, which he will do.

pavlik did not go down frm one punch it was frm 3-5 of flush shots. i think u need to watch that fight again.

[Taeth]

why do u keep sayin who has kelly fought? he is still young stupid, and just barley started gettin these fights with bhop and JT. damn let the dude rest for a minute. and from wat i saw mosleey did hurt cotto a little, you tryna make it sound like i said he was fina get kod.

I only saying who has Pavlik fought in terms of
1. A puncher
2. more then just one elite fighter who is riddled with flaws
3. a fighter who isn't 43 regardless of his accomplishments
4. a complete fighter with speed and power.

I am comparing Pavlik's chin to Cotto's in that its good, but its not elite level. It definitely hasn't shown that it can withstand a beating, if he was just suffered a flash knockdown against Taylor, or it was late in the fight after he had taken a ton of punches that would be one thing, but Taylor almost knocked him out with one punch, and Taylor couldn't knock out Cory Spinks or Ouma or any of the B calss or higher fighters he has faced, and yet he almost KO'ed Pavlik. Besides that Corley fight, every guy (Judah, Margarito, Torres) that has hurt Cotto has had from a good punch to a devastating punch(in Torres). Cotto didn't have problems with Quintana's power, with Abduallaev's power, with Mosley's power. In the Mosley fight it was the cut in his mouth, and him changing strategies to run out the clock that were the reasons Cotto was moving a lot. Against Judah and Margarito he never went down from a single punch like Pavlik did against Taylor, Judah hurt him, but Cotto was able to retaliate immediately with hard punches and recovered almost instantly, against Magarito the accumulation broke him down. So I think the comparison is fair, at least until Pavlik fights better fighters, which he will do.

pavlik did not go down frm one punch it was frm 3-5 of flush shots. i think u need to watch that fight again.

I'll concede that, I havent' watched that fight since it happened. Anyways One thing I will change is that I believe Pavlik does have potential, when I say he is slow I don't mean he is like sloath, but that he has normal handspeed which looks slow compared to Calzaghe, Dawson, Kessler, Taylor, etc. but I think if Pavlik ever really improved his defense he would be something special, but until he can not get hit he will continue to be not half as good as half of you guys believe, and not half as bad as some of us believe.

[Taeth]

by bad I mean lack of true greatness in this case.

[Deanrw]

He did get hurt by Miranda, and who besides Miranda has Pavlik foughten that hits hard or landed a hart punch on him? Judah hits harder then Taylor p4p, As does Torres. Mosley never EVER hurt Cotto, where the hell did you get that from? Is it when Cotto slipped? Maybe you should watch the entire fight because Mosley I believe that exact same round slips in the EXACT same spot. Don't let HBO blowing their load throw you off. Cotto was severly weight drained when he fought at 140 thats his excuse, he looked like a skeleton at the weighins. Hell even Malignaggi got more respect with his punches then Mosley or Quintana did when COtto moved up to WW. Pavlik isn't badly weight drained to make middleweight.

why do u keep sayin who has kelly fought? he is still young stupid, and just barley started gettin these fights with bhop and JT. damn let the dude rest for a minute. and from wat i saw mosleey did hurt cotto a little, you tryna make it sound like i said he was fina get kod.

I only saying who has Pavlik fought in terms of
1. A puncher
2. more then just one elite fighter who is riddled with flaws
3. a fighter who isn't 43 regardless of his accomplishments
4. a complete fighter with speed and power.

I am comparing Pavlik's chin to Cotto's in that its good, but its not elite level. It definitely hasn't shown that it can withstand a beating, if he was just suffered a flash knockdown against Taylor, or it was late in the fight after he had taken a ton of punches that would be one thing, but Taylor almost knocked him out with one punch, and Taylor couldn't knock out Cory Spinks or Ouma or any of the B calss or higher fighters he has faced, and yet he almost KO'ed Pavlik. Besides that Corley fight, every guy (Judah, Margarito, Torres) that has hurt Cotto has had from a good punch to a devastating punch(in Torres). Cotto didn't have problems with Quintana's power, with Abduallaev's power, with Mosley's power. In the Mosley fight it was the cut in his mouth, and him changing strategies to run out the clock that were the reasons Cotto was moving a lot. Against Judah and Margarito he never went down from a single punch like Pavlik did against Taylor, Judah hurt him, but Cotto was able to retaliate immediately with hard punches and recovered almost instantly, against Magarito the accumulation broke him down. So I think the comparison is fair, at least until Pavlik fights better fighters, which he will do.

You shit all over Pavlik's track record, but hold Kessler high on a pedestal. You talk about a fighter getting chinned/hurt and automatically erase them from doing anything significant?

Please explain why you hold Kessler in such high regard. I mean his opponents are far from breath taking. You also throw out skills such as speed and mobility, but neglect things such as heart, will and the determination to step up above in beyond in a situation where is is sorely needed. Speed and mobility mean nothing all when you are dug into the trenches. They are not the end all and be all. Sometimes you need that little extra oomph to get you over the hump.

Pavlik may not be a world beater, but he is out there taking fights that he can learn from. He might lose saturday, but at least he is not out there taking the safe route.

[kingfrnk]

why do u keep sayin who has kelly fought? he is still young stupid, and just barley started gettin these fights with bhop and JT. damn let the dude rest for a minute. and from wat i saw mosleey did hurt cotto a little, you tryna make it sound like i said he was fina get kod.

I only saying who has Pavlik fought in terms of
1. A puncher
2. more then just one elite fighter who is riddled with flaws
3. a fighter who isn't 43 regardless of his accomplishments
4. a complete fighter with speed and power.

I am comparing Pavlik's chin to Cotto's in that its good, but its not elite level. It definitely hasn't shown that it can withstand a beating, if he was just suffered a flash knockdown against Taylor, or it was late in the fight after he had taken a ton of punches that would be one thing, but Taylor almost knocked him out with one punch, and Taylor couldn't knock out Cory Spinks or Ouma or any of the B calss or higher fighters he has faced, and yet he almost KO'ed Pavlik. Besides that Corley fight, every guy (Judah, Margarito, Torres) that has hurt Cotto has had from a good punch to a devastating punch(in Torres). Cotto didn't have problems with Quintana's power, with Abduallaev's power, with Mosley's power. In the Mosley fight it was the cut in his mouth, and him changing strategies to run out the clock that were the reasons Cotto was moving a lot. Against Judah and Margarito he never went down from a single punch like Pavlik did against Taylor, Judah hurt him, but Cotto was able to retaliate immediately with hard punches and recovered almost instantly, against Magarito the accumulation broke him down. So I think the comparison is fair, at least until Pavlik fights better fighters, which he will do.

You shit all over Pavlik's track record, but hold Kessler high on a pedestal. You talk about a fighter getting chinned/hurt and automatically erase them from doing anything significant?

Please explain why you hold Kessler in such high regard. I mean his opponents are far from breath taking. You also throw out skills such as speed and mobility, but neglect things such as heart, will and the determination to step up above in beyond in a situation where is is sorely needed. Speed and mobility mean nothing all when you are dug into the trenches. They are not the end all and be all. Sometimes you need that little extra oomph to get you over the hump.

Pavlik may not be a world beater, but he is out there taking fights that he can learn from. He might lose saturday, but at least he is not out there taking the safe route.

[Taeth]

Kessler hasn't needed to dig deep, and against Cazlaghe he tried. He lost no honor in that fight as anyone will tell you. He was trying his best, but Joe was the better man that night. It happens. He never lost hope, he never stopped punching. Emanuel Steward mentions this plenty of times in the fight.

Why do I hold Kessler in such high regard? One is I have a preference for boxers rather then punchers so its partly that, but he has mastered the sport so well, Pavik is a good technical fighter, but he's nothing compared to Kessler who is the perfect fundamental fighter, he has power in both hands, he has good enough speed... it gets redundent. I prefer a fighter that can do more then just go forward. I like Kessler because he has made the most with what he has in every aspect of boxing.

I also have never said I don't hold Pavlik in high regard, I used to not like him, but I do very much now. I've watched about 10 of his fights, and I think he has a lot going for him, but I don't think he is the legend others on here seem to think he is. I think he also has made the most with what he has, but that he has less then others do IMO.

Also ... I am not even going to call you king, but you are making stupid comments so I am going to end this, for now, until tomorrow. I hope you all have a good night.

[kingfrnk]

Kessler hasn't needed to dig deep, and against Cazlaghe he tried. He lost no honor in that fight as anyone will tell you. He was trying his best, but Joe was the better man that night. It happens. He never lost hope, he never stopped punching. Emanuel Steward mentions this plenty of times in the fight.

Why do I hold Kessler in such high regard? One is I have a preference for boxers rather then punchers so its partly that, but he has mastered the sport so well, Pavik is a good technical fighter, but he's nothing compared to Kessler who is the perfect fundamental fighter, he has power in both hands, he has good enough speed... it gets redundent. I prefer a fighter that can do more then just go forward. I like Kessler because he has made the most with what he has in every aspect of boxing.

I also have never said I don't hold Pavlik in high regard, I used to not like him, but I do very much now. I've watched about 10 of his fights, and I think he has a lot going for him, but I don't think he is the legend others on here seem to think he is. I think he also has made the most with what he has, but that he has less then others do IMO.

Also ... I am not even going to call you king, but you are making stupid comments so I am going to end this, for now, until tomorrow. I hope you all have a good night.

i hope u piss in the bed. i will continue 2morrow