If Pavlik was a heavyweight, would the critics have called him gutless this weekend?

[p4pking]

I think it's a little harder to rag on Pavlik after he stood up to that ass whipping than it is Wlad Klitschko for playing patty cake with Ibragimov. Not to mention it was a lot more entertaining to watch than any meaningful HW fight in years, imo. If there were any HWs out there who could bring what Hopkins did last night all the others would be lucky just to hear the final bell as well if you ask me. Basically, no.... People call HW's gutless because most aren't getting in condition to fight hard or showing any urgency in the ring when it's right there for the taking. Little different when you've got a defensive wizard clobbering you all over the place.

I'm thinking more about Tony Thompson really. This was a guy who didn't turn pro until he was 30 and fought his way to a title shot the hard way, with no publicity, by being the underdog and beating fighters he wasn't supposed to beat including travelling to Germany to do so.

He simply didn't have the tools to beat Wlad but fought until the 11th round. Meanwhile Steve (fat bastard who knows nothing) Bunce labelled him gutless, a disgrace to the sport and typical of the current generation of useless lazy yanks.

I thought it was completely unfair to Thompson who had worked extrememely hard to get to where he was.

Meanwhile Pavlik gives a display as wholly uninspired, he literally did nothing the whole fight and people label him as brave for fighting until the end.

I'm not criticising Kelly I really like the guy, I just hate the double standards.

Which is why I asked the question, if Kelly was a heavyweight and had given that exact same performance against Wlad would people have labelled it an insipid, gutless, heartless display?

Good point about Thompson, but that last bit is really what I was getting at here. He wouldn't have given the same performance against Wlad, no fighter of the same calibre would, because Klitschko isn't capable of doing a third what Hopkins did against Kelly. And if anyone does look that pathetic against Klitschko, unless he becomes Muhammad Ali over night, it most likely would take a pretty gutless effort. That was somewhat what I was saying as far as Ibragimov. He had nothing to offer up against Wlad, but the difference is he wasn't getting clobbered and simply didn't choose to take risks. Pavlik was getting hit with the kitchen sink even when he would try and work behind his guard, jab his way in, etc. If he were to have shown more "guts" in an effort to open up more, Hopkins would just have hit him harder and more often. You can't really fault a guy for hanging tough 12 rounds in a high paced fight, especially considering how good Hopkins output was, it must have really crushed him mentally.

[RP33]

good post p4pking..

this is the big difference in comparing this fight to HW's.. Wlad is a dominating force in that division, and has a pretty constant size advantage/strength advantage over a lot of his opponents.. So if you're fighting him, and feel his power, you may think twice about taking a risk of trying to get inside(Ibragimov), but to not really attempt anything in fear of getting KO'd, is cowardly..

Pavlik didn't really have to worry too much about Hopkins power, and he was clearly willing to take chances to get hit to land a shot or two of his own.. he was just wayyyyy outclassed, and wasn't able to find Hopkins.. I don't really see the comparison, especially with using Pavlik in the example.. I mean, he's the guy who backed Miranda up, and took his shots all night long.. When people fight Wlad i just see some cowardly fights, which makes a boring fight and bad reviews.. I'm not saying that they don't have a reason to be afraid of Wlad, but they're in the ring to fight, not to be afraid to get hit..

[leftylee]

The main difference is frauds like Tony Thompson were fighting in their natural weight class and put on a poor showing. Pavlik was 10 pounds above his familiar weight class and it was clear it had a big effect on him for the worse.