Pavlik bitching about Hopkins: he isnt even good

[luvfightgame]

I gotta say that he really didn't look right in there. I rewatched the Miranda and 1st Taylor fights yesterday and that just wasn't the same guy in there. And it's not just because of the shots he was taking, Taylor was hitting him with great shots but he just kept coming forward and throwing shots. It was a strange performance.

I haven't seen this fight yet.....but, it's not unusual for a fighter to be disappointed with their own performance. It sounds like both guys had unusual nights. Bhop is a great but hasn't looked good in very many of his recent fights.

Pavlik can be understandably dismayed that it wasn't the Bhop that fought Taylor in the ring. And I think most would agree that if Bhop threw 7-10 punches a round and stood around and posed like he did against J.T. he would have lost.

I don't think Pavlik was bitching about Bhop. More like he was bitching about himself. He performed badly and knew it. It's harder to accept a loss when you know you weren't at your best.

Bitching is when you are satisfied with your own performance but think the judges gave you a bum decision or someone else prevented you from winning. I didn't hear that in the clip. Sounded like someone saying "I got my ass whooped, when I shouldn't have". He felt like he should have won or at least had a close fight.

He was at his best. Said he felt perfectly fine going in, inbetween rounds, everything.
Says there is a mysterious ghost that tied his hands down after the bell and he couldn't move his arms to punch though.

It's an excuse. He's never been in the ring with a fighter who can pick him apart and take away all his tools before - the only logical answer now is " I dont know what happened. I felt perfectly fine, i just couldn't punch or throw a punch".

Thats the lack of experience talking.

I must have missed the ghost tying his hands down part
He said he didn't know why he didn't fight his best. He said he was in shape, not tired, felt fine, just couldn't do what he normally does. Maybe it was because Bhop was so good, but maybe it was because he had an off night and Bhop was good. Don't know, but he didn't sound like he bitched about Bhop.

I have played basketball games where I just missed shots i've made a million times and it felt like I couldn't make a basket. Not injured, no problems, got positions to take the shots and should have made them just didn't. When I lose that way I am pissed and complain alot. Not about the other team or players, just about how I played. Losing sucks always, but it's worse when you didn't play your best. That's how Kelly sounded to me. He acknowledged he got his butt kicked, but complained about how he fought, not how Hopkins fought.

How would an experienced fighters complain? Bhop cheated, I was sick, the ref interfered, I won but the judges don't like me, HBO made sure their fighter won, I was robbed, I got a fukked up promoter, I overtrained, I was shooting a movie??

I don't see how it was "lack of experience" talking. Those excuses above were by experienced guys like Bhop, Hatton, Judah, Lennox......

[intoccabile]

I haven't seen this fight yet.....but, it's not unusual for a fighter to be disappointed with their own performance. It sounds like both guys had unusual nights. Bhop is a great but hasn't looked good in very many of his recent fights.

Pavlik can be understandably dismayed that it wasn't the Bhop that fought Taylor in the ring. And I think most would agree that if Bhop threw 7-10 punches a round and stood around and posed like he did against J.T. he would have lost.

I don't think Pavlik was bitching about Bhop. More like he was bitching about himself. He performed badly and knew it. It's harder to accept a loss when you know you weren't at your best.

Bitching is when you are satisfied with your own performance but think the judges gave you a bum decision or someone else prevented you from winning. I didn't hear that in the clip. Sounded like someone saying "I got my ass whooped, when I shouldn't have". He felt like he should have won or at least had a close fight.

He was at his best. Said he felt perfectly fine going in, inbetween rounds, everything.
Says there is a mysterious ghost that tied his hands down after the bell and he couldn't move his arms to punch though.

It's an excuse. He's never been in the ring with a fighter who can pick him apart and take away all his tools before - the only logical answer now is " I dont know what happened. I felt perfectly fine, i just couldn't punch or throw a punch".

Thats the lack of experience talking.

I must have missed the ghost tying his hands down part
He said he didn't know why he didn't fight his best. He said he was in shape, not tired, felt fine, just couldn't do what he normally does. Maybe it was because Bhop was so good, but maybe it was because he had an off night and Bhop was good. Don't know, but he didn't sound like he bitched about Bhop.

I have played basketball games where I just missed shots i've made a million times and it felt like I couldn't make a basket. Not injured, no problems, got positions to take the shots and should have made them just didn't. When I lose that way I am pissed and complain alot. Not about the other team or players, just about how I played. Losing sucks always, but it's worse when you didn't play your best. That's how Kelly sounded to me. He acknowledged he got his butt kicked, but complained about how he fought, not how Hopkins fought.

How would an experienced fighters complain? Bhop cheated, I was sick, the ref interfered, I won but the judges don't like me, HBO made sure their fighter won, I was robbed, I got a fukked up promoter, I overtrained, I was shooting a movie??

I don't see how it was "lack of experience" talking. Those excuses above were by experienced guys like Bhop, Hatton, Judah, Lennox......

I was being sarcastic with the ghost tying his hands rofl.
And it was a lack of experience talking because he doesn't know what was wrong in there.
What was wrong is he's never fought a fighter with lateral movement, someone who can take his tools from him
the way bhop did. Did you see teh SCARED look on his face after the 12th round? During the scuffle, teh way he backed up with absolute
horror in his eyes? Did you see the look of disbelief and humble afterwards?

Its the first time he felt USELESS. .and there are many fighters who can make people feel this way, Bhop being one of them.
He's never had that happen before, he's never had that EXPERIENCE in the ring before. So his only arguement is " It can't be that he was too crafty, i mean.. taylor beat him twice! I beat taylor twice! taylor and calzaghe hit him at will! I just couldnt get anything going.. i dont know.. i tjust wasnt me "

This is the lack of experience talking. When you say you dont know why you didn't beat someone that someone you had beaten beat, thats lack of experience.

[Kel]

Give the guy a break, Hopkins broke his heart, he will need time to get over it. He was not bitchin, he just could not understand what happened in there. He was far from prepared for a one sided loss, maybe he read too many posts on this forum, huh?

[luvfightgame]

He was at his best. Said he felt perfectly fine going in, inbetween rounds, everything.
Says there is a mysterious ghost that tied his hands down after the bell and he couldn't move his arms to punch though.

It's an excuse. He's never been in the ring with a fighter who can pick him apart and take away all his tools before - the only logical answer now is " I dont know what happened. I felt perfectly fine, i just couldn't punch or throw a punch".

Thats the lack of experience talking.

I must have missed the ghost tying his hands down part
He said he didn't know why he didn't fight his best. He said he was in shape, not tired, felt fine, just couldn't do what he normally does. Maybe it was because Bhop was so good, but maybe it was because he had an off night and Bhop was good. Don't know, but he didn't sound like he bitched about Bhop.

I have played basketball games where I just missed shots i've made a million times and it felt like I couldn't make a basket. Not injured, no problems, got positions to take the shots and should have made them just didn't. When I lose that way I am pissed and complain alot. Not about the other team or players, just about how I played. Losing sucks always, but it's worse when you didn't play your best. That's how Kelly sounded to me. He acknowledged he got his butt kicked, but complained about how he fought, not how Hopkins fought.

How would an experienced fighters complain? Bhop cheated, I was sick, the ref interfered, I won but the judges don't like me, HBO made sure their fighter won, I was robbed, I got a fukked up promoter, I overtrained, I was shooting a movie??

I don't see how it was "lack of experience" talking. Those excuses above were by experienced guys like Bhop, Hatton, Judah, Lennox......

I was being sarcastic with the ghost tying his hands rofl.
And it was a lack of experience talking because he doesn't know what was wrong in there.
What was wrong is he's never fought a fighter with lateral movement, someone who can take his tools from him
the way bhop did. Did you see teh SCARED look on his face after the 12th round? During the scuffle, teh way he backed up with absolute
horror in his eyes? Did you see the look of disbelief and humble afterwards?

Its the first time he felt USELESS. .and there are many fighters who can make people feel this way, Bhop being one of them.
He's never had that happen before, he's never had that EXPERIENCE in the ring before. So his only arguement is " It can't be that he was too crafty, i mean.. taylor beat him twice! I beat taylor twice! taylor and calzaghe hit him at will! I just couldnt get anything going.. i dont know.. i tjust wasnt me "

This is the lack of experience talking. When you say you dont know why you didn't beat someone that someone you had beaten beat, thats lack of experience.

I haven't watched the fight yet. I am mainly commenting on people picking apart what was said. First off they come up and ask you a question after a fight and you are forced to answer it or be an ass and not allow it. So they ask you what happened and why did you get your ass kicked? That's a tough question.... Anyway to me he acknowledged that he got whooped, but also said he was frustrated that he didn't perform well. I just don't see it as insulting Bhop.

An undefeated fighter usually hasn't experienced being dominated in the ring. I think he kept his cool and didn't come off like an ass. He addressed what happened and turned the criticism on himself.

Do you seriously think that given the last few performances by Bhop the fight would have went that way? Taking the last 5 years into consideration Bhop hasn't fought that well. I didn't feel it was a good fight for Pavlik and Bhop is tough but a shutout? Nobody predicted that and I think it had something to do with Pavlik having a bit of an off night the same night Bhop had a great one. I think that's typically how it goes when 2 top level guys meet and one is absolutely dominating. Usually it's not just that one guy is so much better, usually it's a great night on a bad night.

Like most of the Superbowls that were blowouts. There's not a huge disparity in talent on the teams.

[intoccabile]

I must have missed the ghost tying his hands down part
He said he didn't know why he didn't fight his best. He said he was in shape, not tired, felt fine, just couldn't do what he normally does. Maybe it was because Bhop was so good, but maybe it was because he had an off night and Bhop was good. Don't know, but he didn't sound like he bitched about Bhop.

I have played basketball games where I just missed shots i've made a million times and it felt like I couldn't make a basket. Not injured, no problems, got positions to take the shots and should have made them just didn't. When I lose that way I am pissed and complain alot. Not about the other team or players, just about how I played. Losing sucks always, but it's worse when you didn't play your best. That's how Kelly sounded to me. He acknowledged he got his butt kicked, but complained about how he fought, not how Hopkins fought.

How would an experienced fighters complain? Bhop cheated, I was sick, the ref interfered, I won but the judges don't like me, HBO made sure their fighter won, I was robbed, I got a fukked up promoter, I overtrained, I was shooting a movie??

I don't see how it was "lack of experience" talking. Those excuses above were by experienced guys like Bhop, Hatton, Judah, Lennox......

I was being sarcastic with the ghost tying his hands rofl.
And it was a lack of experience talking because he doesn't know what was wrong in there.
What was wrong is he's never fought a fighter with lateral movement, someone who can take his tools from him
the way bhop did. Did you see teh SCARED look on his face after the 12th round? During the scuffle, teh way he backed up with absolute
horror in his eyes? Did you see the look of disbelief and humble afterwards?

Its the first time he felt USELESS. .and there are many fighters who can make people feel this way, Bhop being one of them.
He's never had that happen before, he's never had that EXPERIENCE in the ring before. So his only arguement is " It can't be that he was too crafty, i mean.. taylor beat him twice! I beat taylor twice! taylor and calzaghe hit him at will! I just couldnt get anything going.. i dont know.. i tjust wasnt me "

This is the lack of experience talking. When you say you dont know why you didn't beat someone that someone you had beaten beat, thats lack of experience.

I haven't watched the fight yet. I am mainly commenting on people picking apart what was said. First off they come up and ask you a question after a fight and you are forced to answer it or be an ass and not allow it. So they ask you what happened and why did you get your ass kicked? That's a tough question.... Anyway to me he acknowledged that he got whooped, but also said he was frustrated that he didn't perform well. I just don't see it as insulting Bhop.

An undefeated fighter usually hasn't experienced being dominated in the ring. I think he kept his cool and didn't come off like an ass. He addressed what happened and turned the criticism on himself.

Do you seriously think that given the last few performances by Bhop the fight would have went that way? Taking the last 5 years into consideration Bhop hasn't fought that well. I didn't feel it was a good fight for Pavlik and Bhop is tough but a shutout? Nobody predicted that and I think it had something to do with Pavlik having a bit of an off night the same night Bhop had a great one. I think that's typically how it goes when 2 top level guys meet and one is absolutely dominating. Usually it's not just that one guy is so much better, usually it's a great night on a bad night.

Like most of the Superbowls that were blowouts. There's not a huge disparity in talent on the teams.

Not at all man, no one would have thought bhop would have fought like that. I cant remember the last time i saw Bernard put a combo together. He does 1 punch and grab, that's it. He was a different person the other night,you are 100% right.

But experience fighters don't look at the tapes and prepare solely for what is on the film, thats not how it works, and definitely a bad move on kelly and their teams part.. assuming that was the big issue. You have to be prepared for anything in there and be able to change your game plan up on the fly. This is what seperates the good from the great.

kelly couldn't do that. Bhop didn't fight like he does on film, and suddenly the fights out of reach. He didn't attempt to change his tactic up once. This is inexperience and something they will capitalize on i hope.

[BIG H]

He was at his best. Said he felt perfectly fine going in, inbetween rounds, everything.
Says there is a mysterious ghost that tied his hands down after the bell and he couldn't move his arms to punch though.

It's an excuse. He's never been in the ring with a fighter who can pick him apart and take away all his tools before - the only logical answer now is " I dont know what happened. I felt perfectly fine, i just couldn't punch or throw a punch".

Thats the lack of experience talking.

When did an opponents lateral movement stop a fighter trying to throw punches ?


I must have missed the ghost tying his hands down part
He said he didn't know why he didn't fight his best. He said he was in shape, not tired, felt fine, just couldn't do what he normally does. Maybe it was because Bhop was so good, but maybe it was because he had an off night and Bhop was good. Don't know, but he didn't sound like he bitched about Bhop.

I have played basketball games where I just missed shots i've made a million times and it felt like I couldn't make a basket. Not injured, no problems, got positions to take the shots and should have made them just didn't. When I lose that way I am pissed and complain alot. Not about the other team or players, just about how I played. Losing sucks always, but it's worse when you didn't play your best. That's how Kelly sounded to me. He acknowledged he got his butt kicked, but complained about how he fought, not how Hopkins fought.

How would an experienced fighters complain? Bhop cheated, I was sick, the ref interfered, I won but the judges don't like me, HBO made sure their fighter won, I was robbed, I got a fukked up promoter, I overtrained, I was shooting a movie??

I don't see how it was "lack of experience" talking. Those excuses above were by experienced guys like Bhop, Hatton, Judah, Lennox......

I was being sarcastic with the ghost tying his hands rofl.
And it was a lack of experience talking because he doesn't know what was wrong in there.
What was wrong is he's never fought a fighter with lateral movement, someone who can take his tools from him
the way bhop did. Did you see teh SCARED look on his face after the 12th round? During the scuffle, teh way he backed up with absolute
horror in his eyes? Did you see the look of disbelief and humble afterwards?

Its the first time he felt USELESS. .and there are many fighters who can make people feel this way, Bhop being one of them.
He's never had that happen before, he's never had that EXPERIENCE in the ring before. So his only arguement is " It can't be that he was too crafty, i mean.. taylor beat him twice! I beat taylor twice! taylor and calzaghe hit him at will! I just couldnt get anything going.. i dont know.. i tjust wasnt me "

This is the lack of experience talking. When you say you dont know why you didn't beat someone that someone you had beaten beat, thats lack of experience.

When did an opponents lateral movement stop a fighter trying to throw punches??

Hopkins completely did a job on the guy and was different class, but Pavlick didn't thrown anything from the first bell. Go and watch the Miranda fight and watch how Pavlick starts. Don't get me wrong I don't rate Pavlick, but I do think he was in part master of his own downfall. I honestly think he was scared.

[intoccabile]

When did an opponents lateral movement stop a fighter trying to throw punches ?


I must have missed the ghost tying his hands down part
He said he didn't know why he didn't fight his best. He said he was in shape, not tired, felt fine, just couldn't do what he normally does. Maybe it was because Bhop was so good, but maybe it was because he had an off night and Bhop was good. Don't know, but he didn't sound like he bitched about Bhop.

I have played basketball games where I just missed shots i've made a million times and it felt like I couldn't make a basket. Not injured, no problems, got positions to take the shots and should have made them just didn't. When I lose that way I am pissed and complain alot. Not about the other team or players, just about how I played. Losing sucks always, but it's worse when you didn't play your best. That's how Kelly sounded to me. He acknowledged he got his butt kicked, but complained about how he fought, not how Hopkins fought.

How would an experienced fighters complain? Bhop cheated, I was sick, the ref interfered, I won but the judges don't like me, HBO made sure their fighter won, I was robbed, I got a fukked up promoter, I overtrained, I was shooting a movie??

I don't see how it was "lack of experience" talking. Those excuses above were by experienced guys like Bhop, Hatton, Judah, Lennox......

I was being sarcastic with the ghost tying his hands rofl.
And it was a lack of experience talking because he doesn't know what was wrong in there.
What was wrong is he's never fought a fighter with lateral movement, someone who can take his tools from him
the way bhop did. Did you see teh SCARED look on his face after the 12th round? During the scuffle, teh way he backed up with absolute
horror in his eyes? Did you see the look of disbelief and humble afterwards?

Its the first time he felt USELESS. .and there are many fighters who can make people feel this way, Bhop being one of them.
He's never had that happen before, he's never had that EXPERIENCE in the ring before. So his only arguement is " It can't be that he was too crafty, i mean.. taylor beat him twice! I beat taylor twice! taylor and calzaghe hit him at will! I just couldnt get anything going.. i dont know.. i tjust wasnt me "

This is the lack of experience talking. When you say you dont know why you didn't beat someone that someone you had beaten beat, thats lack of experience.

When did an opponents lateral movement stop a fighter trying to throw punches??

Hopkins completely did a job on the guy and was different class, but Pavlick didn't thrown anything from the first bell. Go and watch the Miranda fight and watch how Pavlick starts. Don't get me wrong I don't rate Pavlick, but I do think he was in part master of his own downfall. I honestly think he was scared.

Calzaghe needs to have his feet planted to throw, thats how he fights.
He only throws punches when he is set. Bhops lateral movement prevented Kelly from ever getting set thus preventing him to throw punches. Understand now?

Whenever bhop wasn't moving, he was engaging first.. forcing kelly to go into defense.
He made kelly respectful (with power ), confused (with movement) and defensive (with activity). He never once let Kelly Sit on his shots, which is the ONLY time kelly throws punches.

I've said it before the fight and will say it once more. Kelly only throws when the target is standing infront of him waiting, on the ropes, or in a corner. He will look silly the moment he fights someone who won't stay there long enough to get anything off. Bhop was that person, THATS why kelly couldn't punch.

As for the comment about him being scared - He looked like he saw a ghost after the fight.. He looked so horrified, it was amazing. Then he looked like he wanted to cry.
So that could very well be the case. But bhop made kelly very respectful.. kelly sought a plan B (which he didn't have) therefore was out of options. His trainer kept whispering to him in the corner " Be active.. activity is how Calzaghe won ", But calzaghe doesn't need to be set to throw.. he just throws punches regardless. Thats the difference, i guess.

[killersheep]

I'm gonna cut Kelly some slack here, he was definately in the spotlight in a place he didn't plan for, everything that may be irrational in his head was surfacing there. Give him some time and I'm sure he will have a better assessment of the situation.

I spent the weekend kinda skipping Saddoboxing to avoid the worst clashes here.

I fully expected Pavlik to slowly break down B-Hop to a close, but controversial decision.

I have never been so wrong in a prediction. Kelly looked out of his element for the first time in all the fights I've seen. B-Hop fought like he was 25 years old. Truly a triumph for B-Hop and a big kudos for him.

I think if Calzaghe beats Jones, a rematch between B-Hop and JC would be a great draw, hopefully with an undercard that doesn't include Dib or Luevano.

[Taeth]

Did somebody actually ask when did Lateral movement stop a guy from throwing punches? UM... Ali, Leonard-Duran II, Hopkins-Trinidad, Mayweather-Corrales, Jones-Toney, ... the list goes on forever.

[BIG H]

I was being sarcastic with the ghost tying his hands rofl.
And it was a lack of experience talking because he doesn't know what was wrong in there.
What was wrong is he's never fought a fighter with lateral movement, someone who can take his tools from him
the way bhop did. Did you see teh SCARED look on his face after the 12th round? During the scuffle, teh way he backed up with absolute
horror in his eyes? Did you see the look of disbelief and humble afterwards?

Its the first time he felt USELESS. .and there are many fighters who can make people feel this way, Bhop being one of them.
He's never had that happen before, he's never had that EXPERIENCE in the ring before. So his only arguement is " It can't be that he was too crafty, i mean.. taylor beat him twice! I beat taylor twice! taylor and calzaghe hit him at will! I just couldnt get anything going.. i dont know.. i tjust wasnt me "

This is the lack of experience talking. When you say you dont know why you didn't beat someone that someone you had beaten beat, thats lack of experience.

When did an opponents lateral movement stop a fighter trying to throw punches??

Hopkins completely did a job on the guy and was different class, but Pavlick didn't thrown anything from the first bell. Go and watch the Miranda fight and watch how Pavlick starts. Don't get me wrong I don't rate Pavlick, but I do think he was in part master of his own downfall. I honestly think he was scared.

Calzaghe needs to have his feet planted to throw, thats how he fights.
He only throws punches when he is set. Bhops lateral movement prevented Kelly from ever getting set thus preventing him to throw punches. Understand now?

Whenever bhop wasn't moving, he was engaging first.. forcing kelly to go into defense.
He made kelly respectful (with power ), confused (with movement) and defensive (with activity). He never once let Kelly Sit on his shots, which is the ONLY time kelly throws punches.

I've said it before the fight and will say it once more. Kelly only throws when the target is standing infront of him waiting, on the ropes, or in a corner. He will look silly the moment he fights someone who won't stay there long enough to get anything off. Bhop was that person, THATS why kelly couldn't punch.

As for the comment about him being scared - He looked like he saw a ghost after the fight.. He looked so horrified, it was amazing. Then he looked like he wanted to cry.
So that could very well be the case. But bhop made kelly very respectful.. kelly sought a plan B (which he didn't have) therefore was out of options. His trainer kept whispering to him in the corner " Be active.. activity is how Calzaghe won ", But calzaghe doesn't need to be set to throw.. he just throws punches regardless. Thats the difference, i guess.

Thanks for educating me on

I disagree with you assement of Pavlick. Against Miranda and Taylor in their first fight he was throwing shots throughout whether his feet were planted or whether he was on the backfoot and being hit himself.
Like I've said Hopkins is awesome, Pavlick is average, but he came out from that first bell looking like a beaten fighter, even before B-HOP could do anything to negate Pavlicks gameplan (or appparent lack of one)

[intoccabile]

When did an opponents lateral movement stop a fighter trying to throw punches??

Hopkins completely did a job on the guy and was different class, but Pavlick didn't thrown anything from the first bell. Go and watch the Miranda fight and watch how Pavlick starts. Don't get me wrong I don't rate Pavlick, but I do think he was in part master of his own downfall. I honestly think he was scared.

Calzaghe needs to have his feet planted to throw, thats how he fights.
He only throws punches when he is set. Bhops lateral movement prevented Kelly from ever getting set thus preventing him to throw punches. Understand now?

Whenever bhop wasn't moving, he was engaging first.. forcing kelly to go into defense.
He made kelly respectful (with power ), confused (with movement) and defensive (with activity). He never once let Kelly Sit on his shots, which is the ONLY time kelly throws punches.

I've said it before the fight and will say it once more. Kelly only throws when the target is standing infront of him waiting, on the ropes, or in a corner. He will look silly the moment he fights someone who won't stay there long enough to get anything off. Bhop was that person, THATS why kelly couldn't punch.

As for the comment about him being scared - He looked like he saw a ghost after the fight.. He looked so horrified, it was amazing. Then he looked like he wanted to cry.
So that could very well be the case. But bhop made kelly very respectful.. kelly sought a plan B (which he didn't have) therefore was out of options. His trainer kept whispering to him in the corner " Be active.. activity is how Calzaghe won ", But calzaghe doesn't need to be set to throw.. he just throws punches regardless. Thats the difference, i guess.

Thanks for educating me on

I disagree with you assement of Pavlick. Against Miranda and Taylor in their first fight he was throwing shots throughout whether his feet were planted or whether he was on the backfoot and being hit himself.
Like I've said Hopkins is awesome, Pavlick is average, but he came out from that first bell looking like a beaten fighter, even before B-HOP could do anything to negate Pavlicks gameplan (or appparent lack of one)

Both edison and taylor stood right infront of him.. he was comfortable. So he threw punches.
See how muc hdifferent he looked in the second taylor fight? Because taylor fought a more technical fight. He looks worse and worse depending on how technical his opponent is.