Who suffered worse in their defeat, Cotto or Pavlik?

[Rantcatrat]

IMO Pavlik; and since Killer and ICB already gave the reasons I won't bore anyone with much more.

Pavlik got shown for what he is, hard as it is to say for me, a fairly one dimensional fighter who had a major case of DITH that night against Hopkins, and was embarassed. Great at what he does and a ferocious finisher; but lacking in mobility and an inherent ability to change a gameplan.

Cotto jut got outbullied by a guy who happens to have iron in his DNA. He showed imo a great ability to box but just got caught one too many times and eventually wore out.

If Pavlik had that same kind of ability to walk through punches like Cotto his fight with Hopkins could have been very similar to the Cotto/Margarito fight. Maybe I'm delusional as I just woke up and my mind is scrambled right now

Bottom line, from what I gather, Pavlik suffered more because the blueprint was laid out on how to beat him?

I am assuming that people think Cotto is more likely to bounce back from his defeat than Pavlik is his?

I disagree. Cotto significantly dropped in his welterweight ranking. Pwill and Margarito are obviously yards ahead of him. As long as they stay at that weight, Cotto will never be on top of his game. Pavlik still stands strong at middleweight. Other than AA, who can beat him?

Good points for sure; and yes Pavlik is still going to be very hard to beat at MW with the exception of AA; but then again who is at MW that even has a name? Granted Kelly moved up 2 weights to fight Hopkins, so maybe you are correct and it didn't tarnish his rep as much as I see.

But Pavlik I doubt will be able to fight at MW forever and there are quite a few guys at SMW that are going to handle him. I think it hurt Pavlik more in the aspect of him knowing now he is pretty damn limited, and though I think mentally he is strong; that kind of loss will haunt him as he realizes that he can't just expect to keep throwing some jabs and an overhand right and expect to wear someone down eventually without some backup plan, which he doesn't have.

Yes Cotto is in trouble with Margarito and Williams being in the WW division. I wouldn't go as far as to say Margarito is roads ahead of him; just able to sustain ridiculous amounts of punches and slops his way through; though I guess Tony doesn't care if he looks good doing it or not as long as he wins. I still say Cotto can beat him and will in a rematch, though that is just blowing hot air and we'll find out later. Williams is just a freak and will give everyone problems; just a severe height advantage and he's got good skills.

Cotto knows he is still a great boxer and can beat anyone in his division, alot of them and very good names. Pavlik found out he can't box and is a tank that only has one way tracks to drive on, and though he can win a MW with really no names, he will always get labeled a guy who had to stay in a division with limited comp and failed at higher weights, if indeed he does decide to stay at MW from here on out. Pavlik will be in a weak division winning, where as Cotto is in one of the top divisions and may suffer a couple of losses. Who will get more respect when their careers are over?

And for the record Pavlik and Margarito are my fave current fighters and have been, so I'm no hater Jesus what a rambling post this is I really suck at debating.........

I'm not sure Pavlik's was hurt more mentally. Recall that Cotto couldn't even face the cameras afterward. He didn't even speak to the media for a week. Watch that fight again. He took three knees! He was forced to give up. Compelled. His will was broken. He couldn't stand it any longer. Unlike Amir Khan, who suffered a one punch knockout, Cotto suffered a sustained beat down. I agree with the concept that as long as you don't become punch shy, a knockout isn't necessarily destructive, but having your will broken? That is very different indeed.

In Pavlik's defense, he was forthright about his defeat and didn't seem embarrassed by it. He came right out and said he got "whupped." It is one thing to be schooled. To be shown that you have flaws that you need to fix or that you can't fight at 170 as effectively as you can at your natural weight. It is quite another to be beat into submission at your natural weight.

Speaking of dominating a weak division for years and still being regarded as a great, uhmmm...Joe Calzaghe. Joe didn't fight the Bhops and RJJ's and Kessler's until he had fought many, many fighters and learned an invaluable amount of boxing technique. Obviously, their innate talent levels are different, but dominating any division for years and learning the finer parts of the sweet science is nothing to be ashamed of.