Capitalism

[killersheep]

Capitalism feeds off of natural human instincts and socialism is more of a "In a perfect world EVERYBODY would have a million dollars" but that doesn't factor into account that if everyone actually had a million dollars then a million dollars would cease to be a million dollars the way we think of it, it would be more like toilet paper....it would be worthless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2JPbQOHEkY

Here's John McCain's original view on this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh9_QvJicy4
oops

[El Kabong]

....still better than this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoqI5PSRcXM

[Kirkland Laing]

....still better than this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoqI5PSRcXM

There'll have to be quite a large redistribution of wealth over the next few years or the US economy won't be able to grow very well. The redistribution of the last 30 years (all to the top) will have to be reversed so that the money generated by the economy will go to people who'll actually spend it, thus creating more economic growth. Obama is dead right about this and the bald plumber wrong.

[El Kabong]

Obama is dead right about this and the bald plumber wrong.

....talk to me in 4 years

[Kirkland Laing]

Obama is dead right about this and the bald plumber wrong.

....talk to me in 4 years

Are you seriously questioning my Infallibility? How well does that always work out for you?

I've already shown you at least once why I'm right, using facts and evidence. You know the one time in history when the top 1% of Americans' share of the wealth was this high previously? Just before the 1929 Depression, something we still stand a chance of repeating currently. The median wage in America has stayed effectively static since 1980 and the US consumer, 71% of US GDP, is now tapped out. Both parents in families now work, both work much longer and harder, both have gone into debt over the past few years just to pay the bills, and now the US consumer doesn't have any money anymore. The 1980-2008 redistribution of wealth to the wealthy has to be reversed othersie 71% of US GDP is going stand still and worse. If you're going to reply to what I have Written do so using facts and evidence only.

[Gandalf]

Obama is dead right about this and the bald plumber wrong.

....talk to me in 4 years

Are you seriously questioning my Infallibility? How well does that always work out for you?

I've already shown you at least once why I'm right, using facts and evidence. You know the one time in history when the top 1% of Americans' share of the wealth was this high previously? Just before the 1929 Depression, something we still stand a chance of repeating currently. The median wage in America has stayed effectively static since 1980 and the US consumer, 71% of US GDP, is now tapped out. Both parents in families now work, both work much longer and harder, both have gone into debt over the past few years just to pay the bills, and now the US consumer doesn't have any money anymore. The 1980-2008 redistribution of wealth to the wealthy has to be reversed othersie 71% of US GDP is going stand still and worse. If you're going to reply to what I have Written do so using facts and evidence only.

That is one seriously funky post.

[Bookkeeper]

....talk to me in 4 years

Are you seriously questioning my Infallibility? How well does that always work out for you?

I've already shown you at least once why I'm right, using facts and evidence. You know the one time in history when the top 1% of Americans' share of the wealth was this high previously? Just before the 1929 Depression, something we still stand a chance of repeating currently. The median wage in America has stayed effectively static since 1980 and the US consumer, 71% of US GDP, is now tapped out. Both parents in families now work, both work much longer and harder, both have gone into debt over the past few years just to pay the bills, and now the US consumer doesn't have any money anymore. The 1980-2008 redistribution of wealth to the wealthy has to be reversed othersie 71% of US GDP is going stand still and worse. If you're going to reply to what I have Written do so using facts and evidence only.

That is one seriously funky post.

Miles what the hell you doin in the land of the far east, it's time to come home player

[El Kabong]

Are you seriously questioning my Infallibility? How well does that always work out for you?

I've already shown you at least once why I'm right, using facts and evidence. You know the one time in history when the top 1% of Americans' share of the wealth was this high previously? Just before the 1929 Depression, something we still stand a chance of repeating currently. The median wage in America has stayed effectively static since 1980 and the US consumer, 71% of US GDP, is now tapped out. Both parents in families now work, both work much longer and harder, both have gone into debt over the past few years just to pay the bills, and now the US consumer doesn't have any money anymore. The 1980-2008 redistribution of wealth to the wealthy has to be reversed othersie 71% of US GDP is going stand still and worse. If you're going to reply to what I have Written do so using facts and evidence only.

Kirkland, oh I totally agree, let's raid the accounts of Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and all those other evil rich people and then hand out money to everyone who haven't earned it and who don't deserve it.

The War on Poverty failed horribly....it tried to redistribute wealth as many Democrat programs have tried before but if those programs had worked then we wouldn't be listening to Barrack or you crying foul right now.

Wealth is not a right, it's a goal plenty of people have, and it's achieveable here in America but it is not a right for everyone to be wealthy.

[Trainer Monkey]

Are you seriously questioning my Infallibility? How well does that always work out for you?

I've already shown you at least once why I'm right, using facts and evidence. You know the one time in history when the top 1% of Americans' share of the wealth was this high previously? Just before the 1929 Depression, something we still stand a chance of repeating currently. The median wage in America has stayed effectively static since 1980 and the US consumer, 71% of US GDP, is now tapped out. Both parents in families now work, both work much longer and harder, both have gone into debt over the past few years just to pay the bills, and now the US consumer doesn't have any money anymore. The 1980-2008 redistribution of wealth to the wealthy has to be reversed othersie 71% of US GDP is going stand still and worse. If you're going to reply to what I have Written do so using facts and evidence only.

Kirkland, oh I totally agree, let's raid the accounts of Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and all those other evil rich people and then hand out money to everyone who haven't earned it and who don't deserve it.

The War on Poverty failed horribly....it tried to redistribute wealth as many Democrat programs have tried before but if those programs had worked then we wouldn't be listening to Barrack or you crying foul right now.

Wealth is not a right, it's a goal plenty of people have, and it's achieveable here in America but it is not a right for everyone to be wealthy.

No it isnt
I dare you to go to McDowell county WV and say that with a straight face.
I triple dog dare you
Watching train loads of coal,making money for Massey Energy,who's CEO lives in a DC suburb,go right by the very miners ramshackle trailers who actually risked their lives to dig it up, and then you say that again.
If you can say it, your a better liar then I could ever hope to even attempt being.
And if you dont think their work has value,and therefor commensurate compensation,stop turning on your light switch and sit in the dark, because without that coal, thats what your doing.

[killersheep]

Are you seriously questioning my Infallibility? How well does that always work out for you?

I've already shown you at least once why I'm right, using facts and evidence. You know the one time in history when the top 1% of Americans' share of the wealth was this high previously? Just before the 1929 Depression, something we still stand a chance of repeating currently. The median wage in America has stayed effectively static since 1980 and the US consumer, 71% of US GDP, is now tapped out. Both parents in families now work, both work much longer and harder, both have gone into debt over the past few years just to pay the bills, and now the US consumer doesn't have any money anymore. The 1980-2008 redistribution of wealth to the wealthy has to be reversed othersie 71% of US GDP is going stand still and worse. If you're going to reply to what I have Written do so using facts and evidence only.

Kirkland, oh I totally agree, let's raid the accounts of Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and all those other evil rich people and then hand out money to everyone who haven't earned it and who don't deserve it.

The War on Poverty failed horribly....it tried to redistribute wealth as many Democrat programs have tried before but if those programs had worked then we wouldn't be listening to Barrack or you crying foul right now.

Wealth is not a right, it's a goal plenty of people have, and it's achieveable here in America but it is not a right for everyone to be wealthy.

You already agreed that we need balance, so with things being so out of balance right now you are agreeing that there is an issue. If deregulation worked we wouldn't be the economic state we are now. The way I see is in order to maintain competition in capitialism, which is the function that keeps us stable we have to move back and forth like a pendulum between regulation and deregulation. At this moment we do need money to get back in the hands of the middle class. Once we get to the point where the middle class can spend without borrowing, then we can get a nice conservative government to deregulate everything again, thus maintaining the balance. What got us out of the depression? The war? that's partly right, it was the socialized programs that created labor for the middle class, the factory work that provided the means for the middle class, to spend and grow the economy, eventually that system breaks down as well. The solution to that problem? Reagan..... and the cycle continues.
Liberalism and Conservatism are the remedies for each others problems, and neither one can survive exclusively.

[Kirkland Laing]

Are you seriously questioning my Infallibility? How well does that always work out for you?

I've already shown you at least once why I'm right, using facts and evidence. You know the one time in history when the top 1% of Americans' share of the wealth was this high previously? Just before the 1929 Depression, something we still stand a chance of repeating currently. The median wage in America has stayed effectively static since 1980 and the US consumer, 71% of US GDP, is now tapped out. Both parents in families now work, both work much longer and harder, both have gone into debt over the past few years just to pay the bills, and now the US consumer doesn't have any money anymore. The 1980-2008 redistribution of wealth to the wealthy has to be reversed othersie 71% of US GDP is going stand still and worse. If you're going to reply to what I have Written do so using facts and evidence only.

Kirkland, oh I totally agree, let's raid the accounts of Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and all those other evil rich people and then hand out money to everyone who haven't earned it and who don't deserve it.

The War on Poverty failed horribly....it tried to redistribute wealth as many Democrat programs have tried before but if those programs had worked then we wouldn't be listening to Barrack or you crying foul right now.

Wealth is not a right, it's a goal plenty of people have, and it's achieveable here in America but it is not a right for everyone to be wealthy.

As usual you swallow every bit of GOP propaganda whole. Obama isn't redistributing wealth, he's changing the marginal income tax rate from 36 to 39%, something McCain agreed with Obama on until he was forced to pander to the dumbass wing of the GOP for their votes. Under Eiserhower the marginal rate was 90% so Eisenhower must have been a socialist, right?


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=d8EyGpOU3qM

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=X2JPbQ...eature=related

What Obama is doing is reversing the redistribution of wealth that's happened since Reagan, where a huge tax cut for top earners was paid for by raising taxes on low and middle earners, slightly reversed under Clinton but then ramped up again by Chimpy. But a big tax cur for low/middle income earners in now necessary because too much money is being redistributed up to the top 1% and it's screwing up the economy.


Remember a year or so ago you were claiming that raising taxes on high earners would backfire and redistribute wealth and I told you that you'd soon see the biggest redistribution of wealth in history as bankers lined up for a bailout? I should try and find that and see what I Wrote back then.

In the meantime here's the well-known socialist Warren Buffett's take on this. Buffett is supporting Obama in this election too, as is the Communist Bill Gates :


Mr. Buffett compiled a data sheet of the men and women who work in his office. He had each of them make a fraction; the numerator was how much they paid in federal income tax and in payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare, and the denominator was their taxable income. The people in his office were mostly secretaries and clerks, though not all.
It turned out that Mr. Buffett, with immense income from dividends and capital gains, paid far, far less as a fraction of his income than the secretaries or the clerks or anyone else in his office. Further, in conversation it came up that Mr. Buffett doesn’t use any tax planning at all. He just pays as the Internal Revenue Code requires. “How can this be fair?” he asked of how little he pays relative to his employees. “How can this be right?”
Even though I agreed with him, I warned that whenever someone tried to raise the issue, he or she was accused of fomenting class warfare.
“There’s class warfare, all right,” Mr. Buffett said, “but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

In Class Warfare, Guess Which Class Is Winning - New York Times

[pacfan]

First off, there is no absolutely free economy, and likewise, no absolutely controlled economy. So the answer is quite simple. Just find the right balance. Obviously, the American economy as it stands now has been proven - and fortunately they are starting to admit that - to be excessively on the free side. Any system that allows people to crowd together and make a collective decision without much regulation is doomed to fail simply because humans act just like animals when herded together. The frenzied herd action is what primarily caused the chaos today - the bulls of yesterday has turned into the bears of today. So again, the key to it all is to find just the right balance, and fortunately, I think that's what the economic honchos would be doing in the next several years.

But don't be easily misled into believing that just re-distributing all the goods equally will solve the problem. The mega-billionaires are there for a reason. First, if you simply distribute all the money of Gates, Buffets, Waltons etc., equally among the ordinary folks like you and me, most of those money will go into consumption and only few left for saving (or investment). Everyone who knows Economics knows that that is not a good idea because it'll send the economy running havoc. But keep these money in relatively few hands, most of it will be plowed back into productive business activities. So again, it's the right balance that's important, not simply just re-distribution. Definitely, I think that the system today favors the rich folks just a bit too much as against the ordinary ones. I think just a little bit more of re-distribution will spur consumption, which is the biggest part of GNP, and will thereby encourage economic growth...