A fighters Decline... Erik vs. Manny

[Pugilistic]

I have to agree.

I don't rate manny's wins over Morales that high because it is clear he was not the same fighter.

[BIG H]

Morales was already on the slide in their first fight and he dealt very nicely with Pac who had 1 game plan and no answers. Pac has improved a lot since then though, credit where credits due. Prime for Prime Erik tears him a new onre though

[Taeth]

I used to think so, but I doubt it now. Pacquaio is better IMO then Morales in terms of all time greatness. Each time he fought Morales it wasn't only easier because Morales was less of a fighter, but also because Manny was becoming a more complete fighter, in the last fight he outboxed Erik, he outfought Erik, and he hurt Erik. I don't think you need to look too far back to see a Manny who just swung for the fence with every punch, and JMM and Erik Morales were able to take advantage of that, but Manny has been getting harder to hit every fight, and Erik isn't the type of guy who sticks to just outboxing an opponent, if he did I think he would beat Manny, but he is a warrior who needs to see how he measures up, and its then that Manny would always win out IMO.

[CGM]

Good Post. I thought Erik was brilliant in the first Pac fight, there was no doubt who was better.

[gyrokai]

We all agree that Pac has improved.

But I suspect it was more in the physical department than the mental. As Juan Manuel Marquez has shown, Pacquiao will always have problems.

And unfortunately, Morales could only beat the odds and upset Pacquiao once. And old fighter defeating a young up and comer with limitless potential (even today), is more impressive than a young beating a fighter on the slide.

[GAME]

Morales was already on the slide in their first fight and he dealt very nicely with Pac who had 1 game plan and no answers. Pac has improved a lot since then though, credit where credits due. Prime for Prime Erik tears him a new onre though

Agree completely. Its silly to suggest otherwise especially when you see how easily Raheem handled Erik in Eriks 1st fight after teh Pac win .

Morales took a 1 sided beating that night and never tried to take it to Raheem . After that fight he never won another battle. The way he quit in the 3rd fight too was proof that his fighting spirit had left him . He would have never sat in out in his prime.

[Taeth]

He just couldn't deal with Manny. Against Raheem it was just a bad match up, thats why the second fight against Manny started the same, except Manny was getting more done. The third fight Manny just jumped all over Morales in every aspect, Morales couldn't counter him, Morales couldn't handle the power or speed.

Against JMM I felt Pacquaio must have gotten badly hurt in the 4th round by a body shot because he looked hurt for 3-4 rounds, I feel Marquez hit Pacquaio a lot in the fight, but Pacquaio also hit JMM a lot. I don't know what it is about JMM, but he seems to have Pacquaio's number. When JMM fought Barrera it was practically dead even, and Pacquaio fought Barrera after that and completely outboxed the same Barrera who matched JMM basically punch for punch.