Best Super Middleweight of all time to date?

[killersheep]

There were no 168lbs fighters before 1984?

Fighters may have weighed 168 lbs. but they were not super middleweights. I understand your argument, but I don't believe it falls into the scope of the question and furthmore as you pointed out it reaches to times where would not have as much material to make a decision.

In fact it does fall into the scope of the question.. "All Time Best" I have been watching fights since before 1984, before they made a division called "Super Middleweight".

168lbs is 168lbs, regardless of what label you place it on.

If the question was: "Who is the greastest "Super Middleweight" since 1984, I would not have posted, but as that was not the question, it opens it up to debate as to who is the best "Super Middleweight" of all time, and last time I looked, 1901 was before 1984.

So, to make this relevant give me an example.

[Ghost]

Fighters may have weighed 168 lbs. but they were not super middleweights. I understand your argument, but I don't believe it falls into the scope of the question and furthmore as you pointed out it reaches to times where would not have as much material to make a decision.

In fact it does fall into the scope of the question.. "All Time Best" I have been watching fights since before 1984, before they made a division called "Super Middleweight".

168lbs is 168lbs, regardless of what label you place it on.

If the question was: "Who is the greastest "Super Middleweight" since 1984, I would not have posted, but as that was not the question, it opens it up to debate as to who is the best "Super Middleweight" of all time, and last time I looked, 1901 was before 1984.

So, to make this relevant give me an example.

Bill Yank Rudd fought between 1910 and 1920, had 39 fights and is concered a "Super Middleweight" fighter even tho division did not exist back then.

I am sure that if I went back farther I can come with others that fall in "All Time" list.

[killersheep]

In fact it does fall into the scope of the question.. "All Time Best" I have been watching fights since before 1984, before they made a division called "Super Middleweight".

168lbs is 168lbs, regardless of what label you place it on.

If the question was: "Who is the greastest "Super Middleweight" since 1984, I would not have posted, but as that was not the question, it opens it up to debate as to who is the best "Super Middleweight" of all time, and last time I looked, 1901 was before 1984.

So, to make this relevant give me an example.

Bill Yank Rudd fought between 1910 and 1920, had 39 fights and is concered a "Super Middleweight" fighter even tho division did not exist back then.

I am sure that if I went back farther I can come with others that fall in "All Time" list.

OK let's approach this logically then, this is all according to boxrec, because I don't know anything about the guy. He fought for a regional heavyweight and middleweight title losing both, never fought anyone of note. Furthermore his few recorded weigh-ins had him in at middleweight and light heavyweight limits. I don't see how he is relevant. I don't see how you can consider him a super middleweight either. Please find another example or at least explain how he was a Super Middleweight, IF you can prove justification for him as a super middleweight THEN you can justify how he was better than Calzaghe or Jones Jr.

[Ghost]

OK let's approach this logically then, this is all according to boxrec, because I don't know anything about the guy. He fought for a regional heavyweight and middleweight title losing both, never fought anyone of note. Furthermore his few recorded weigh-ins had him in at middleweight and light heavyweight limits. I don't see how he is relevant. I don't see how you can consider him a super middleweight either. Please find another example or at least explain how he was a Super Middleweight.

You are missing my point killersheep, The question was "Who is the Best Super Middleweight of All Time"? As there are 1000's of boxers who have fought at 168lbs over the years,(since time began) that no-one has ever seen or heard of, how can a winner or answer to question be given?

If the question was limited to the years between 1984 and now, different story. But "All Time" covers a greater time frame.

[killersheep]

OK let's approach this logically then, this is all according to boxrec, because I don't know anything about the guy. He fought for a regional heavyweight and middleweight title losing both, never fought anyone of note. Furthermore his few recorded weigh-ins had him in at middleweight and light heavyweight limits. I don't see how he is relevant. I don't see how you can consider him a super middleweight either. Please find another example or at least explain how he was a Super Middleweight.

You are missing my point killersheep, The question was "Who is the Best Super Middleweight of All Time"? As there are 1000's of boxers who have fought at 168lbs over the years,(since time began) that no-one has ever seen or heard of, how can a winner or answer to question be given?

If the question was limited to the years between 1984 and now, different story. But "All Time" covers a greater time frame.

I guess my interpretation of it was "the best super middleweight of all time"
as opposed to "the best 168 lb. fighter of all-time" and since the title "Super Middleweight" came into existence in 1984 I foolishly assumed that would constitute a statute of limitations. You're right.

[Ghost]

OK let's approach this logically then, this is all according to boxrec, because I don't know anything about the guy. He fought for a regional heavyweight and middleweight title losing both, never fought anyone of note. Furthermore his few recorded weigh-ins had him in at middleweight and light heavyweight limits. I don't see how he is relevant. I don't see how you can consider him a super middleweight either. Please find another example or at least explain how he was a Super Middleweight.

You are missing my point killersheep, The question was "Who is the Best Super Middleweight of All Time"? As there are 1000's of boxers who have fought at 168lbs over the years,(since time began) that no-one has ever seen or heard of, how can a winner or answer to question be given?

If the question was limited to the years between 1984 and now, different story. But "All Time" covers a greater time frame.

I guess my interpretation of it was "the best super middleweight of all time"
as opposed to "the best 168 lb. fighter of all-time" and since the title "Super Middleweight" came into existence in 1984 I foolishly assumed that would constitute a statute of limitations. You're right.

It was just a matter of "Time"

[killersheep]

You are missing my point killersheep, The question was "Who is the Best Super Middleweight of All Time"? As there are 1000's of boxers who have fought at 168lbs over the years,(since time began) that no-one has ever seen or heard of, how can a winner or answer to question be given?

If the question was limited to the years between 1984 and now, different story. But "All Time" covers a greater time frame.

I guess my interpretation of it was "the best super middleweight of all time"
as opposed to "the best 168 lb. fighter of all-time" and since the title "Super Middleweight" came into existence in 1984 I foolishly assumed that would constitute a statute of limitations. You're right.

It was just a matter of "Time"

Ok so, now that you've established this covers more time than that accepted by every other poster on this thread it is TIME for you to make any relevancy on this by providing a single person that fought at 168 that could be considered greater than Jones Jr. and Calzaghe. Ready? Go.....