Best Super Middleweight of all time to date?

[RozzySean]

You can make a case that Steve Collins ranks a close third to Calzaghe. Two wins over prime Chris Eubanks, two wins over Nigel Benn (he was older, but so was Eubank when Calzaghe fought him), and Chris Pyatt. Frederic Seillier was also a decent win.

[Fenster]

You can make a case that Steve Collins ranks a close third to Calzaghe. Two wins over prime Chris Eubanks, two wins over Nigel Benn (he was older, but so was Eubank when Calzaghe fought him), and Chris Pyatt. Frederic Seillier was also a decent win.

You can only do that by judging their careers on paper.

Benn was well finished. And Eubank was arguably never really the same after the Watson fight - so a long way from his prime.

Calzaghe had never been past 8 rounds, so Eubank, even though not prime, was a BIG step-up in class for him. That's the difference.

[RozzySean]

You can make a case that Steve Collins ranks a close third to Calzaghe. Two wins over prime Chris Eubanks, two wins over Nigel Benn (he was older, but so was Eubank when Calzaghe fought him), and Chris Pyatt. Frederic Seillier was also a decent win.

You can only do that by judging their careers on paper.

Benn was well finished. And Eubank was arguably never really the same after the Watson fight - so a long way from his prime.

Calzaghe had never been past 8 rounds, so Eubank, even though not prime, was a BIG step-up in class for him. That's the difference.

That is the most illogical thing I've ever heard. I don't know how you can credit Calzaghe for beating Eubank, yet not fully credit Collins for beating a much younger, much better version. You also argued in another thread that Eubank wasn't shot against Calzaghe, only weight drained. You can't have it both ways, Fenster.

So what if Calzaghe had never been past 8. Kelly Pavlik didn't go past 9 until Taylor 2. Eubank might have been a step up for at that time, but how does that matter that Calzaghe hadn't gone past 8?

[Fenster]

You can make a case that Steve Collins ranks a close third to Calzaghe. Two wins over prime Chris Eubanks, two wins over Nigel Benn (he was older, but so was Eubank when Calzaghe fought him), and Chris Pyatt. Frederic Seillier was also a decent win.

You can only do that by judging their careers on paper.

Benn was well finished. And Eubank was arguably never really the same after the Watson fight - so a long way from his prime.

Calzaghe had never been past 8 rounds, so Eubank, even though not prime, was a BIG step-up in class for him. That's the difference.

That is the most illogical thing I've ever heard. I don't know how you can credit Calzaghe for beating Eubank, yet not fully credit Collins for beating a much younger, much better version. You also argued in another thread that Eubank wasn't shot against Calzaghe, only weight drained. You can't have it both ways, Fenster.

So what if Calzaghe had never been past 8. Kelly Pavlik didn't go past 9 until Taylor 2. Eubank might have been a step up for at that time, but how does that matter that Calzaghe hadn't gone past 8?

Hang on.. there's a world of difference between being "past your prime" and "shot."

Simply put the Eubank that faced Collins wasn't the very best version. So naturally he couldn't have been against Calzaghe either but was still far from being "shot."

The rounds matter because doing championship level distance is a big psychological plus for any fighter. In Calzaghe's case - how could he really know he had the stamina for it having never been beyond 8? He said himself he was knackered in the later rounds.

[ICB]

One of the dumbest comments i've ever witnessed, your Joe Calzaghe fanboyism is just laughable. Yea the Roy Jones Jr that fought Antonio Tarver was obviously the same Roy Jones who defeated James Toney

And Roy Jones lost to Antonio Tarver because he was a tricky Southpaw ? are you kidding me ? maybe it had something to do with Roy Jones being 35, and dropping tons of weight making him weak which resulted in losing alot of muscle mass. For someone who is supposedly a body builder im suprised you failed to mention this.

Reggie Johnson was a very good tricky Southpaw fighter. Actually he was better than Antonio Tarver, considering when he was at the end of his career. He only just lost a SD to Antonio Tarver, a prime Roy Jones dominated Reggie Johnson. He also beat Eric Harding who was another good Southpaw fighter.

Please actually learn about boxing Roy Jones defeated James Toney, when he was a P4P top 3 fighter in the world. With victories over Reggie Johnson, Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum, Merqui Sosa, Iran Barkley, Doug DeWitt, Tim Littles ETC.

Show me any of Joe Calzaghe's opposition who had a record like that ? if anyone actually believes Joe Calzaghe would of beaten a prime Roy Jones then you don't know boxing end of. Roy Jones was beating fighters like Thulani Malinga easily, who beat a prime Robin Reid, and should of had 2 wins over Nigel Benn including a win over Chris Eubank.

Roy Jones is x2 a fast as Joe Calzaghe, he hits x2 as hard and he does everything better than Joe Calzaghe. He was a special fighter where as Joe Calzaghe is just a very good fighter IMO.

Good ppints ICB

I did find it sort of funny how he mentioned how he is "amazed" how people judge fighters off of one or two performances

Yet he brings up how Roy lost to Tarver and Johnson and said Roy was in his "prime" doing them and pulls them out as reason Calzaghe would stand a chance. Isn't he sort of contradicting himself?

Ok fella...what does it take to beat calzaghe?

What does it take to beat mayweather?

YOU DONT KNOW, NO ONE DOES!

Because they have never been beaten yet, have they?

All of this 'prime roy jones wouldve smashed calzaghe' is a load of sh1t, because NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IT TAKES TO BEAT CALZAGHE as it hasnt been done before.

It might well be true that if they had fought then roy jones wouldve beaten joe calzaghe, but they didnt fight back then...they are fighting now.

So what are you gonna say if calzaghe wins?

Are you going to congratulate calzaghe or are you going to simply say 'but a prime roy jones wouldve beat him easy'...when you still have no idea what it would take to beat joe calzaghe as it hasnt been done before.

We know what it takes to beat roy jones, tarver did it twice and so did johnson...tarver is a tricky southpaw fighter, calzaghe is a tricky southpaw fighter...yet the laughable thing is that it is totally 'inconcievable' that a prime calzaghe couldve beaten a prime roy jones...where as if you look at jones' fights against tarver he was not at ease at all in them.

Does this not suggest that there is a possibility that he mightve been ill at ease whilst fighting an even trickier southpaw fighter in joe calzaghe?

'OOOOOOOOOOH shock horror...the 'totally inconcievable' thought that a prime calzaghe couldve beaten a prime jones'

I dont care for the talk of 'in their prime'...the facts are the facts...the funny thing is that if jones wins this then everyone will scream 'hes miles better than calzaghe' yet if calzaghe wins this theyll scream 'a prime jones is miles better than calzaghe'...when really THEY DONT HAVE A CLUE WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE:

a. Calzaghe will have just beaten jones
b. how the hell can they predict something that never happened?
c. how do they know what could beat calzaghe or what couldnt seeing as hes never been beaten before?

Sometimes i hope jones wins, because then at least i can say 'jones is definately better than calzaghe...end of'...AND IF JONES DOES WIN THEN I WILL SAY THAT JONES IS DEFINATELY BETTER THAN CALZAGHE, END OF STORY.

But if calzaghe wins (and depending how), then i will say that calzaghe is 'greater' than jones with regards to achievements and records. But im still open to saying that if they fought in their primes then it couldve gone either way.

You see, this is the difference between someone who analyses fights and has an OPEN MIND and someone who has a closed mind or is a hater.

With an open mind, if calzaghe wins comfortably i will say that jones may still have beaten calzaghe if they were prime vs prime...yet a hater will automatically say (regardless of how joe batters the sh1t out of roy, if he does) 'jones wouldve smashed calzaghe in his prime' when they simply dont have a clue.

I know what will happen after this fight if calzaghe wins a great victory.

1. calzaghe beats lacy, (haters thought hed lose) lacy is overhyped
2. calzaghe beats kessler, (haters thought hed lose) kessler is overhyped
3. calzaghe beats hopkins, (haters thought hed lose) hopkins is past it (yet then hopkins goes on to school pavlik, and previously school tarver and comfortably beat wright)
4. calzaghe beats jones, (haters thought hed lose) jones is past it and a prime jones wouldve 'easily bashed' a prime calzaghe.

Cant you see the pattern emmerging here?

Like i wrote, if jones wins i will rate him higher than calzaghe (infact at the moment i do rate jones higher than calzaghe at this point in time, but it would change if calzaghe wins), but if jones beats calzaghe then i will straight away say that jones is best supermiddleweight ever without a doubt.

But if calzaghe emphatically beats jones, would you not even consider the thought that he may have made it a close fight when jones was in his prime?

Or would you instantly say (regardless of how the fight goes) that a prime jones wouldve beaten calzaghe.

So youre saying that nothing calzaghe could do...even if he fought bhop again and beat him more comfortably than last time, if he fought dawson and beat him and if he demolishes jones then it still doesnt matter...because 'a prime roy jones wouldve kicked his ass'...

That does not sound like the opinion of an open minded fan of the sport of boxing...it sounds pure and simple like a hater!

Joe Calzaghe already did lose he lost to Robin Reid, how many gift decisions or how many hard fights did RJJ have in his prime ? and you didn't reply to any of my counter points all you did is post a long rant.

[mrbig1]

Oh I'm so sick of hearing about Roy Joke JR. He beats a big fat James Toney. Then moves out of a tough Super MW division to a weaker LT HW division. The bum of the month club was born. Far worst than Joe Louis.

I Think this guy is a british Calzaghe fanboy who has made up an alias, and put up the american flag to throw ppl off. Dickhead.

No, I'm red,white,and blue from Louisville,ky. I think Toney had to hit the scales 3 times before making the weight. That takes nothing away from Jones.Roy Jones had great skill,power and speed. He seems to go out of his way not to take on the very best. I think HBO had a great deal to do with it Protecting their super star. You're not going to find Hall,frazier, or Woods on your p4p list. Jones, other than Toney or a green Hopkins had never really been tested. Can he win a hard fight? Can he get off the canvas to win? The worst player in baseball would be in the hall of fame if my daughter was doing the pitching. This is why I can't call Jones a great fighter.

[southakron314]

Someone on these boards once argued that there was difference between being the best and being the greatest. Following that I'd say Roy Jones was the best Super Middleweight of all time - no one who has ever fought at 168 would have beaten a prime RJJ at the weight - while Calzaghe is the greatest (due to a better resume at the weight).

Better resume? What Robin , Manfredo , Mario Viet (twice). Come one.

[Beanflicker]

On longevity and wins, Calzaghe.

On talent and who I think would win a fight between the two, Jones.

Calzaghe can't hold a candle to prime Roy. Roy was quicker of feet, hand, a harder puncher, harder to hit, with a better amateur pedigree.

[LondonBB]

#]

Idont think there are many people on here who really believe if they were both fighting in there SM primes that Calzaghe would beat Jones.

And your comments about Calzaghes 21 defences , makes him better than Jones ?? WTF - does that make The Brown Bomber the best heavy of all time cos he defended it the most times ? or do we think Ali / Foreman /etc could beat him ?

Look at the state of you lol.

Firstly you say competitive bodybuilding isnt a sport lol when its probably the most dedicated thing one can do (24/7) for 20 or more years, diet, training, rest.

Now this bollox.

When the fuk am i gonna speak with some people who have competed highly in sport or in boxing.

Your opinion means nothing to me.

You come on here and think you know more than anyone else ?
i asked a simple question , why dont you answer it ,
secondly i think your very high opinion of yourself , claiming my opinion means nothing to you ? fair enough but when you ever reach then hidden boards you may find that most of the people on here think your opinion is a joke.
As for bodybuilding im sure i said if its a sport drinking is. meaning drinking should be a sport.
not that i particularly give a rats ass wot you think of me. lol
for the record i think prime for prime Jones was lightyears ahead of calzaghe.

Pipe down, pipe down, toddle off down the pub to have your pint of lager and watch the footie whilst smoking a few fags.

[Dark Lord Al]

Look at the state of you lol.

Firstly you say competitive bodybuilding isnt a sport lol when its probably the most dedicated thing one can do (24/7) for 20 or more years, diet, training, rest.

Now this bollox.

When the fuk am i gonna speak with some people who have competed highly in sport or in boxing.

Your opinion means nothing to me.

You come on here and think you know more than anyone else ?
i asked a simple question , why dont you answer it ,
secondly i think your very high opinion of yourself , claiming my opinion means nothing to you ? fair enough but when you ever reach then hidden boards you may find that most of the people on here think your opinion is a joke.
As for bodybuilding im sure i said if its a sport drinking is. meaning drinking should be a sport.
not that i particularly give a rats ass wot you think of me. lol
for the record i think prime for prime Jones was lightyears ahead of calzaghe.

Pipe down, pipe down, toddle off down the pub to have your pint of lager and watch the footie whilst smoking a few fags.

Firstly i dont smoke , also i dont drink lager , and your knowledge is summed up by not answering my analogy ,
and as i said wait to you get to the hidden boards to see wot people think of your opinion.

[Tysonbruno]

LondonBB why don't you back up your opinions with facts rather than just ranting on and on your not making any friends mate now i myself am a straight talker i say what im thinking i give my opinions and back them up also with facts sometimes i have a rant we all do but no need for falling out. But theirs some good guys on here with good opinions and good facts rather than falling out and ranting on and on read what these guys are writing you could learn a bit. I've been a boxing fan since 1986 ive bought boxing news and other mags since 1995 but some of these guys tell me things i don't know and thats what makes saddoboxing the place it is one more thing before i stop ranting on and on LOL we don't all have to be fans of the same fighters and we don't all have to hate the same fighters or just dislike the same fighters thats what makes for a good debate. So less ranting and upsetting people and more enjoying this site

[WelshDevilRob]

Nigel Benn vs Gerald McClellan is possibly the Greatest Super Middleweight fight of all-time. Brutal War.

[Tysonbruno]

Nigel Benn vs Gerald McClellan is possibly the Greatest Super Middleweight fight of all-time. Brutal War.

Good fight that shame what happened but good fight.

[Tysonbruno]

I think Jones had 6 defences at Super middleweight im shocked he number 1 against a man who made 21 defences or should i say 2 men including Ottke who also made 21 defences.

[leggy]

prime for prime who could beat jones ?