Randy vs Brock

[the_PRODIGY]

Yes Minotauro. He got careless against Herring but the guy is a beast. lets not forget he's 6ft 3 and 240, as you say has some mad BJJ, is a good boxer and IS powerful.

I loved Randy and he was one of my favourite fighters but if randy would have gotten past Brock i feel he would have lost to Nog. There is no doubt about it Brock is a phenomenal athlete but regardless of Necks and arms they are still submittable. Add to that i think Nog beats him at stand up. His chin is fantastic, his recovery is great BUT he has been in some battles...that may come into play.

From what i read on here also people are talking about Brock fighting Mir should he get past Nog as if people are assuming Mir will beat Nog...please, lets get real. Mirs BJJ is not even on a level with Nogs, his wrestling is nothing to speak of and his standup is way below the par of Nogeuira's..Nog will win easily IMO.

So, it will be Nog-Brock and as much as i think Brock is a powerful, formiddable athlete i think Nog will have his number.

I don't think Minotauro is that good as you said.I think in this sport most of the time its always a matter of imposing your gameplan and I think wrestling is the most effective discipline.Minoutauro..his wrestling is not even close to Brock's and yes he has the best BJJ in the division but boxing?POWERFUL?c'mon man..I can't remember this guy winning via KO.he's fwockin good for real but as far as I know he was never able to battered Herring like Brock did, 6' 3" 240lb?yes he has size but remember he had a close call against a middleweight Dan Henderson.and if I'm right he even lost to him once.Henderson is a Greco-Roman wrestler and its clear Minotauro had troubles with great wrestlers like Josh Barnett.So with this I don't think he can beat Randy.and we all knew he got pretty much exposed to Fedor multiple times.

Sylvia was an unskilled giant who has a good right hand.with some good take down defence and decent chin too.and so was Herring.so far that's all Minotauro has handled in the UFC.He would have all the trouble against an athletic guy and much worst it will be hell to him if he'll go up against a dominant wrestler.I mean a great wrestler.

But I do think he would defeat Mir.and I hope he does.so we can all see how Brock fairs against 'younger' opponent and this time I hope he would get the respect he deserves.But I should still state that IMO,Randy was the best heavyweight out there and he just got served.

Sorry mate when i said powerful i didn't mean powerful striking i mean powerful in general, core power with the ability to hang with other powerful heavyweights. He is not a KO artist but he can wear fighters down with his striking and has a good engine.

Brock and Nog are two very different fighters. At the end of round one against Randy Brock was blowing out of his ass and (ok shoot me for this) if it would have gone another round i think the fight would have been randys. If Nog can last past the first round against Brock i am pretty sure he will get the sub. Its all very well saying his neck and arms are monstrous but when you are knackered you fall into subs and against a master like Minotauro it wont take much for you to find yourself in an armbar or a choke...and 3 rounds in carrying a 280 pound frame about for 15 mins you aint gonna power out of it. Check nog vs Bop Sapp..now i am not going to compare Sapp to Brock (insult to brock) but for Raw muscle power Sapp matches if not betters Brock...and he got caught in an armbar and couldn't power out of it. Nogs main attributes aside from his fighting skills are his incredible ability to absorb punishment and his heart. Look at him vs Mirko...he was getting beaten in the standup by Mirko but in the end Mirko succumbed to a sub. Saying all this Brock has a while to train sub defence so we will see what happens.

Going back to what you said about nog losing to Dan yes about 10 years ago he lost to dan in a dec i think (which he avenged). I always try and judge fighters on their last 5 fights as it tends to give a good indication of where they are at currently and admittedly he has had problems with Josh Barnett..lost a split won a unanimous BUT Josh has a gastank and skills that far exceed Brocks, has a sub arsenal and is an equally fantastic wrestler (for the record i think Josh would crucify Brock)

Its going to be interesting thats for sure, styles make fights and we can talk about it all we want but anything can happen in MMA. Look at Mirko vs Gonzaga!

Rep for the debate anyway

I see your point man.Brock was clearly gassed after being pressed in the cage for most of the round.And it is exactly why I think Randy has the biggest chance of beating him because he's a superb Greco-Roman wrestler..If Nog can do this same thing in the early rounds (which I doubt) I think he can pull-it off.this is one advantage of wrestling that is overlooked,,on how you wear out your opponents by simply putting the pressure on.look how a lot fresher Brock was against Herring after 3rounds that is because he was totally in control of the wrestling game in that fight.against Randy he can't be 'easy' that's why he exerted a lot of energy for him not to be taken down.

Now we know Brock can only improve his sub-D but so as Nog I think he should and would improve his wrestling.If he does then he would surely have the advantage.and on the monstrous arms and neck,,i think Sapps is too dumb of a fighter to be even mention.you're absolutely right that it's an insult to compare him.I think he's a lot bigger,but that doesn't mean he is stronger.What I'm tryin to say is it's tough to catch a wrestler's arm offguard because they pay a lot of attention on it coz its such a major factor to their balance and they won't usually make that stupid mistake i think.much more difficult if its real strong and huge.I think their legs and ankles is pretty much their achilles heels..So I guess Nog has a bigger chance if he would intentionally choose to be on full-guard than trying to be on a more dominant position.I think when he's on his back he has the biggest chance of submitting Brock I say maybe via triangle choke or like Mir did he can catch a leg on a scramble.

LMAO on the 'josh would crucify brock' statement.not that I find it absurb,,I actually think he would beat Brock..I was just imagining him literally crucified,,i mean how big that cross shuld hav to be.and what size of nails to be used considering he wears 4XL gloves!!!

Reps here too for the Nog-CroCop reminder,,that was a tremendous display of heart for Minotauro.

[iceman]

there are a whole series of chokes that are easier if the guy has big arms and a big neck, brabo, annaconda, figure 4 etc etc, leg locks and knee bars get ya big legs or toothpicks, the biggest challenge from Lesnar is getting past the powerful hands. that said, congrats the better fighter that night won. but submission proof becuase he's big? dude try practicing bjj...you will get another opinion.

[JT Rock]

there are a whole series of chokes that are easier if the guy has big arms and a big neck, brabo, annaconda, figure 4 etc etc, leg locks and knee bars get ya big legs or toothpicks, the biggest challenge from Lesnar is getting past the powerful hands. that said, congrats the better fighter that night won. but submission proof becuase he's big? dude try practicing bjj...you will get another opinion.

I agree I have choked out many of guys of all shapes and sizes... Proper technique far outweighs size and strength. you just have to be more patient and make sure you are going to get the sub.. "position before submission" some of the biggest mistakes I see is when a guy attempts a sub when he dosent have proper position or when he is hellbent on pulling off a sub when its clearly not working, often times that leaves you vulnerable to get hammered or you give up dominant position or put in a bad position.

[JT Rock]

Nogs often times takes a helacious beating waiting for a sub, I dont know if he can withstand the ground and pound or wearing down, a big, strong quick guy like Lesnar could dish out

[GAME]

Nogs often times takes a helacious beating waiting for a sub, I dont know if he can withstand the ground and pound or wearing down, a big, strong quick guy like Lesnar could dish out

Brock looked like he was gassing after 1 round with a 45 year old. A tired man is easier to sudmit. Ive seen Nog take horrific beatings and comeback .

Brock cant do anything to nog that Fedor couldnt do. Nog survived the distance with the greatest so I think he will survive Brock but when the big man tires hes in a world of trouble . I pick Nog by late round sudmission if that fight ever happens.

[iceman]

i still think a lot of people fail to realize, a triangle, the brabo etc can be done easier on big necked, big shouldered guys..their muscles help you tap them...try it

[Munkymagic]

i still think a lot of people fail to realize, a triangle, the brabo etc can be done easier on big necked, big shouldered guys..their muscles help you tap them...try it

I am a judo BB,been a dan grade for 5 years,done well in some comps, been practicing BJJ now for a year, have 10 years combatives experience...i still find it tougher to get a frickin traingle on guys with big necks and big arms.....the issue is getting the sankaku-jime locked in and the lifting off the deck. If you get an arm it does make it easier to roll to the side to stop them from lifting up. In judo once you are off the deck the strangle/choke has to be released.

That said.. I've always had snags with triangle chokes lol, defo not one of my favourites and not my forte'...from the guard i'll always go for an arm.

But you are right mate

[VictorCharlie]

Well I have to say I have been very impressed with the progression of Brock. While I wouldn't call his striking "technical" I thought he mixed it up well and showed good timing and instincts. He showed control and patience which to me goes to an overall maturing as a fighter. He still needs some ground work. Randy's escape towards the end of the first round was pretty awesome, but Brock never should have let him back up. All this being said Brock brings a new combination of athleticism and size that we haven't seen at HW. I think outside of Fedor he is a pick em fight with just about anyone. I wouldn't be suprised if he beat Nog nor would I be suprised to see him pummel him for four rounds then get tapped out a la Nog's MO. I think the real question is how much more can Brock continue to progress and evolve. In all honesty the fighter I think would be the most telling against Brock is Barnett. I'd love to see this fight

[the_PRODIGY]

there are a whole series of chokes that are easier if the guy has big arms and a big neck, brabo, annaconda, figure 4 etc etc, leg locks and knee bars get ya big legs or toothpicks, the biggest challenge from Lesnar is getting past the powerful hands. that said, congrats the better fighter that night won. but submission proof becuase he's big? dude try practicing bjj...you will get another opinion.

I never said he's 'submission-proofed' because he's big.I said it is tougher submitting a bigger arm or neck much more if your opponent is a wrestler.try some wrestling and you'll realized how much you pay attention to your arms.the elbows are used to stabilize and maintain position and the hands are often used to control the opponents wrist.unlike others,good wrestlers won't go crazy with their fists unless they are in a dominant postion..although it needs to be the strongest muscles (and of course,the core muscles )they are less cautious to their legs.I know Nog has excellent BJJ skils and in fact I even said it would be a much easier fight for him if he improves his wrestling.after all this is MMA.