Calzaghe ducked the best?

[Fenster]

Can you guys give me your opions and help settle an argument
I am debating with someone who believes that calzaghe did not go to the us in his prime thus avoiding b hop and RJJ in there prime what are your opinions please

Just use the Hopkins doubling his purse from 3 to 6 million argument. Calzaghe tried to make the fight but he wasn't interested. Nothing you can do if the other guy doesn't want to fight you.

Anyway, as sonny said, Calzaghe was a nobody back then. Roy could fight far easier guys for probably the same money he would have got for Calzaghe. So why fight him?

[HattonTheHammer]

Can you guys give me your opions and help settle an argument
I am debating with someone who believes that calzaghe did not go to the us in his prime thus avoiding b hop and RJJ in there prime what are your opinions please

Just use the Hopkins doubling his purse from 3 to 6 million argument. Calzaghe tried to make the fight but he wasn't interested. Nothing you can do if the other guy doesn't want to fight you.

Anyway, as sonny said, Calzaghe was a nobody back then. Roy could fight far easier guys for probably the same money he would have got for Calzaghe. So why fight him?

pretty much spot on

Nobody stateside took calzaghe genuinely seriously despite having that 0 on his record many pundits just took him as a decent european challenger that would be more of a foil and a spoiler for the likes of jones/toney/hopkins etc

It was only when jeff lacy came to manchester for a mandatory challenge that the likes of HBO stood up and realised there was actually a genuine hall of fame legend that had gone relatively unnoticed.

The same thing kinda happened to sven ottke and mikkel kessler is struggling with the same problem!!

[CGM]

Can you guys give me your opions and help settle an argument
I am debating with someone who believes that calzaghe did not go to the us in his prime thus avoiding b hop and RJJ in there prime what are your opinions please

Just use the Hopkins doubling his purse from 3 to 6 million argument. Calzaghe tried to make the fight but he wasn't interested. Nothing you can do if the other guy doesn't want to fight you.

Anyway, as sonny said, Calzaghe was a nobody back then. Roy could fight far easier guys for probably the same money he would have got for Calzaghe. So why fight him?

BHOP probably didn't want to move up to SMW to fight a nobody. Why bother? Middleweight was the better division. BUt when the time came BHOP was ready to fight. The irony for BHOP is, back in the day his superiority over Calzaghe would be definite, IMO.

[Fenster]

Can you guys give me your opions and help settle an argument
I am debating with someone who believes that calzaghe did not go to the us in his prime thus avoiding b hop and RJJ in there prime what are your opinions please

Just use the Hopkins doubling his purse from 3 to 6 million argument. Calzaghe tried to make the fight but he wasn't interested. Nothing you can do if the other guy doesn't want to fight you.

Anyway, as sonny said, Calzaghe was a nobody back then. Roy could fight far easier guys for probably the same money he would have got for Calzaghe. So why fight him?

BHOP probably didn't want to move up to SMW to fight a nobody. Why bother? Middleweight was the better division. BUt when the time came BHOP was ready to fight. The irony for BHOP is, back in the day his superiority over Calzaghe would be definite, IMO.

Don't think so. There were no names at middleweight either. It took Trinidad moving up to give Hopkins a BIG NAME fight. After that (which is when the Calzaghe offer was made) he fought no-names like Hakkar, and Robert Allen for the 50th time, before little Oscar obliged him with a big payday.

BOTH are probably very pleased the way things turned out (the fight not happening in 2002). When they finally fought they were both much bigger names.. earning much more dough

[ICB]

Fenster is right the Middleweight division at that time, was no real better than the Super Middleweight division.

Its a shame Bernard Hopkins couldn't get fights with some of the best Middleweights of the early 90s like Mike McCallum, James Toney, Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan, Steve Collins.

I think Bernard Hopkins missed out on a great opportunity with all those names. But then again maybe not because i don't think a raw Bernard Hopkins could beat James Toney, Mike McCallum, Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan. And even Steve Collins would be a very rough night for him.

[donnydarkoIRL]

The only instance I can perceive for talking about what a fighter didn't do was in the case of Salvador Sanchez.

In the case of Joe Calzaghe, he had a full career, why talk about what he didn't, should have or could have done?

[Dark Lord Al]

The only instance I can perceive for talking about what a fighter didn't do was in the case of Salvador Sanchez.

In the case of Joe Calzaghe, he had a full career, why talk about what he didn't, should have or could have done?

Well said Alan

[CGM]

Just use the Hopkins doubling his purse from 3 to 6 million argument. Calzaghe tried to make the fight but he wasn't interested. Nothing you can do if the other guy doesn't want to fight you.

Anyway, as sonny said, Calzaghe was a nobody back then. Roy could fight far easier guys for probably the same money he would have got for Calzaghe. So why fight him?

BHOP probably didn't want to move up to SMW to fight a nobody. Why bother? Middleweight was the better division. BUt when the time came BHOP was ready to fight. The irony for BHOP is, back in the day his superiority over Calzaghe would be definite, IMO.

Don't think so. There were no names at middleweight either. It took Trinidad moving up to give Hopkins a BIG NAME fight. After that (which is when the Calzaghe offer was made) he fought no-names like Hakkar, and Robert Allen for the 50th time, before little Oscar obliged him with a big payday.

BOTH are probably very pleased the way things turned out (the fight not happening in 2002). When they finally fought they were both much bigger names.. earning much more dough

OK, fair enough. But the point remains that there was little motivation to move up to SMW. Better to stick around and unite MW.

IMO the Hopkins of ten years ago was a much better fighter than he is now, he had better physical tools, and more than enough savvy to take out calzaghe. Waiting all this time tended to equalize the two, and maybe tip a bit in Calzaghe's favour.

[Mar]

Calzaghe i don't belive has "ducked" anyone, he may not have necessarily fought the people we wanted to see him fight in the right decade....but he's pretty bad ass at what he does. I do belive his time has passed and missed out on the respect and fame he wants especially from people in the states but hey we're talking about him aren't we there are tons of fighters he in the states who we aren't. Joe imo isn't going to get the opportunity to prove how good he is but that doesn't necessarily make him a bad fighter or ducker punk whatever you want to call him. If i were him i'd retire and leave the young guys alone, he could win, but if he lost ......

[Mikkel_K]

Don't think so. There were no names at middleweight either. It took Trinidad moving up to give Hopkins a BIG NAME fight. After that (which is when the Calzaghe offer was made) he fought no-names like Hakkar, and Robert Allen for the 50th time, before little Oscar obliged him with a big payday.

It should be said to B-Hop's defence that little Oscar provided something like ten million reasons for him to stay at 160.

That the money werent right for the risk it brought, doesnt mean Hopkins was scared. Same goes for Joe not coming to the States earlier.

[Dark Lord Al]

I dont think Calzaghe intended to duck people , i just dont think he tried hard enough to get those fights , sure offers were made , but look , if Calzaghe had given up the WBOJOKE strap , and fought to NUMBER 1 contender status for say RJJ , or whoever , then he would have got the fight.
Maybe Calzaghe regrets not fighting these guys in their primes , its a part of boxing that i hate , Sven Ottke and Calzaghe both so called unbeaten world champions , in the same division , and never fought, ( not that its all Calzaghe's fault ) it is just bullshit when the best in divisions dont fight.
Basically boxing politics are total bullshit as we are all well aware of.
We shouldnt be left guessing who beats who , we should see it happen !!!
Solution is simple - 1 champion per division.

[Fenster]

I dont think Calzaghe intended to duck people , i just dont think he tried hard enough to get those fights , sure offers were made , but look , if Calzaghe had given up the WBOJOKE strap , and fought to NUMBER 1 contender status for say RJJ , or whoever , then he would have got the fight.
Maybe Calzaghe regrets not fighting these guys in their primes , its a part of boxing that i hate , Sven Ottke and Calzaghe both so called unbeaten world champions , in the same division , and never fought, ( not that its all Calzaghe's fault ) it is just bullshit when the best in divisions dont fight.
Basically boxing politics are total bullshit as we are all well aware of.
We shouldnt be left guessing who beats who , we should see it happen !!!
Solution is simple - 1 champion per division.

As you say boxing politics are bullshit.

SO.. being the No.1 contenter to an alphabet doesn't guarantee anything. And certainly wouldn't have changed his "star" status across the pond

[Dark Lord Al]

I dont think Calzaghe intended to duck people , i just dont think he tried hard enough to get those fights , sure offers were made , but look , if Calzaghe had given up the WBOJOKE strap , and fought to NUMBER 1 contender status for say RJJ , or whoever , then he would have got the fight.
Maybe Calzaghe regrets not fighting these guys in their primes , its a part of boxing that i hate , Sven Ottke and Calzaghe both so called unbeaten world champions , in the same division , and never fought, ( not that its all Calzaghe's fault ) it is just bullshit when the best in divisions dont fight.
Basically boxing politics are total bullshit as we are all well aware of.
We shouldnt be left guessing who beats who , we should see it happen !!!
Solution is simple - 1 champion per division.

As you say boxing politics are bullshit.

SO.. being the No.1 contenter to an alphabet doesn't guarantee anything. And certainly wouldn't have changed his "star" status across the pond

I really ment if he was mandatory , and calls a guy like RJJ out , then if the fight doesnt happen its down to the champ ,
He isnt the only fighter guilty of this kind of thing ,

[Fenster]

Don't think so. There were no names at middleweight either. It took Trinidad moving up to give Hopkins a BIG NAME fight. After that (which is when the Calzaghe offer was made) he fought no-names like Hakkar, and Robert Allen for the 50th time, before little Oscar obliged him with a big payday.

It should be said to B-Hop's defence that little Oscar provided something like ten million reasons for him to stay at 160.

That the money werent right for the risk it brought, doesnt mean Hopkins was scared. Same goes for Joe not coming to the States earlier.

Hang on.. Hopkins doesn't need a defence from anything ive said. Nothing has been dispariging towards him.

Imagine Hopkins had the choice (obviously he didn't) .. either fight Oscar for 10m or fight Calzaghe for say 5m.. that can't even be seriously considered, not for a minute, second, nanosecond

[Mikkel_K]

Don't think so. There were no names at middleweight either. It took Trinidad moving up to give Hopkins a BIG NAME fight. After that (which is when the Calzaghe offer was made) he fought no-names like Hakkar, and Robert Allen for the 50th time, before little Oscar obliged him with a big payday.

It should be said to B-Hop's defence that little Oscar provided something like ten million reasons for him to stay at 160.

That the money werent right for the risk it brought, doesnt mean Hopkins was scared. Same goes for Joe not coming to the States earlier.

Hang on.. Hopkins doesn't need a defence from anything ive said. Nothing has been dispariging towards him.

Imagine Hopkins had the choice (obviously he didn't) .. either fight Oscar for 10m or fight Calzaghe for say 5m.. that can't even be seriously considered, not for a minute, second, nanosecond

Actually I had first written the word defence in brackets, but decided to erase them as it just seemed too gay. Anyway, I know you didnt attack him or anything, my point was merely that no matter the sporting level, Hopkins had very good reasons to not fight Calzaghe.

I guess we dont disagree, but I just thought it was a point worth making.