Calzaghe ducked the best?

[zhubin]

I'll assume you are either joking or just completely ignorant. Did you read the beginning of my post? Boxing is a business. And where it's the biggest business is right here in the states (for better or worse). Roy Jones was a superstar. Joe, champion or not, was not (outside of Wales at least). But you want me to be foolish enough to believe the reason Joe didn't come to the US back then was because of his pride?! Worse, you actually think "after years of waiting & trying" he decides to finally come to the states...to fight and prove his worth? Now that's funny. Maybe, just maybe...Joe waited for the RIGHT time to come here and fight guys like Roy and Bernard. But hey...trying to convince Joe fans such as yourself otherwise is pointless. George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment.

There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.

AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?

So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense.

Thank you ... because Fensters post saved me some typing...& to zhubin There is a very naive school of thought by us deluded JC fans .....

& THAT IS,

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE JOE CALZAGHE WAS SIMPLY TOO BIG A RISK TO TAKE UNLESS THEY WAS TO BE GIVEN FORT KNOX FOR THERE EFFORTS BACK THEN.....

& Had Joe not gone to the states eventually, the fights would never have been made .... because Hopkins & Jones sure as hell had made it clear enough that there was no way that they would be coming to Europe let alone GB any time soon FACT.

3 Other Facts.....

1) No, I wasn't Joking...But surely you was when saying ..

"George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment"

2) No, Im not ignorant, But to high-lite a pretty good deifnition of what ignorance is read the above quote from yourself, because for you to typcast JC fans per se as if we are robotic & lacking in any boxing insite where JC is concerned ... & for you to presume that Im some kinda JC cheer leader that bats his eye lashes at anything he does in the ring ...IS IGNORANT...

3) However, whatever, whenever....JC went to the states when it made good sense (A buisness you said, did you read the beggining of your post) & beat both the fighters that you mention & got more money than he would have a decade ago....

I apologize for writing that you might be ignorant. When things get heated...sometimes things are said that should't be. Fenster, the business end of boxing is a he said/she said affair. One fighter/promoter can say one thing...while another has a completely different side of the story. And let's say the Bernard fight wasn't his fault...that still doesn't excuse the majority of his career, until just recently, being in Wales. I am fully aware of Calzaghe's p4p status...but that doesn't translate to him being a "big name"...especially here in the states. The PPV sales for the Jones fight where very disappointing...imagine if Calzaghe was fighting someone of a lesser name than Jones here.

[Fenster]

There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.

AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?

So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense.

Thank you ... because Fensters post saved me some typing...& to zhubin There is a very naive school of thought by us deluded JC fans .....

& THAT IS,

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE JOE CALZAGHE WAS SIMPLY TOO BIG A RISK TO TAKE UNLESS THEY WAS TO BE GIVEN FORT KNOX FOR THERE EFFORTS BACK THEN.....

& Had Joe not gone to the states eventually, the fights would never have been made .... because Hopkins & Jones sure as hell had made it clear enough that there was no way that they would be coming to Europe let alone GB any time soon FACT.

3 Other Facts.....

1) No, I wasn't Joking...But surely you was when saying ..

"George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment"

2) No, Im not ignorant, But to high-lite a pretty good deifnition of what ignorance is read the above quote from yourself, because for you to typcast JC fans per se as if we are robotic & lacking in any boxing insite where JC is concerned ... & for you to presume that Im some kinda JC cheer leader that bats his eye lashes at anything he does in the ring ...IS IGNORANT...

3) However, whatever, whenever....JC went to the states when it made good sense (A buisness you said, did you read the beggining of your post) & beat both the fighters that you mention & got more money than he would have a decade ago....

I apologize for writing that you might be ignorant. When things get heated...sometimes things are said that should't be. Fenster, the business end of boxing is a he said/she said affair. One fighter/promoter can say one thing...while another has a completely different side of the story. And let's say the Bernard fight wasn't his fault...that still doesn't excuse the majority of his career, until just recently, being in Wales. I am fully aware of Calzaghe's p4p status...but that doesn't translate to him being a "big name"...especially here in the states. The PPV sales for the Jones fight where very disappointing...imagine if Calzaghe was fighting someone of a lesser name than Jones here.

The PPV sales were even WORSE for Hopkins-Pavlik (190,000). I think ALL the recent PPVs are doing bad?

But that's the whole point. Even when Calzaghe gained worldwide recognition as a P4P fighter, and with HBO backing, he still doesn't do great numbers in the States. Boxing is about money.

Calzaghe was a LESSER name back then. So maybe the fights didn't make sense to the likes of Roy and Hopkins. Why fight a dangerous foreigner that no one knows

[Trainer Monkey]

Thank you ... because Fensters post saved me some typing...& to zhubin There is a very naive school of thought by us deluded JC fans .....

& THAT IS,

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE JOE CALZAGHE WAS SIMPLY TOO BIG A RISK TO TAKE UNLESS THEY WAS TO BE GIVEN FORT KNOX FOR THERE EFFORTS BACK THEN.....

& Had Joe not gone to the states eventually, the fights would never have been made .... because Hopkins & Jones sure as hell had made it clear enough that there was no way that they would be coming to Europe let alone GB any time soon FACT.

3 Other Facts.....

1) No, I wasn't Joking...But surely you was when saying ..

"George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment"

2) No, Im not ignorant, But to high-lite a pretty good deifnition of what ignorance is read the above quote from yourself, because for you to typcast JC fans per se as if we are robotic & lacking in any boxing insite where JC is concerned ... & for you to presume that Im some kinda JC cheer leader that bats his eye lashes at anything he does in the ring ...IS IGNORANT...

3) However, whatever, whenever....JC went to the states when it made good sense (A buisness you said, did you read the beggining of your post) & beat both the fighters that you mention & got more money than he would have a decade ago....

I apologize for writing that you might be ignorant. When things get heated...sometimes things are said that should't be. Fenster, the business end of boxing is a he said/she said affair. One fighter/promoter can say one thing...while another has a completely different side of the story. And let's say the Bernard fight wasn't his fault...that still doesn't excuse the majority of his career, until just recently, being in Wales. I am fully aware of Calzaghe's p4p status...but that doesn't translate to him being a "big name"...especially here in the states. The PPV sales for the Jones fight where very disappointing...imagine if Calzaghe was fighting someone of a lesser name than Jones here.

The PPV sales were even WORSE for Hopkins-Pavlik (190,000). I think ALL the recent PPVs are doing bad?

But that's the whole point. Even when Calzaghe gained worldwide recognition as a P4P fighter, and with HBO backing, he still doesn't do great numbers in the States. Boxing is about money.

Calzaghe was a LESSER name back then. So maybe the fights didn't make sense to the likes of Roy and Hopkins. Why fight a dangerous foreigner that no one knows

What also screws the pooch,is Hopkins really wanted Jones,probably not anymore,but Bernard spent years calling out Jones.I think Roy was smart enough to know what alot of us allready did,he's shot,and wanted no part of it. He only finally took Calzeghe for a paycheck

[joniebeeuk]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

[ICB]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

When did Joe Calzaghe ever beat Nigel Benn ? in a bar brawl ? because he never beat him in the ring.

[joniebeeuk]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

When did Joe Calzaghe ever beat Nigel Benn ? in a bar brawl ? because he never beat him in the ring.

HaHa,Well done i was checking that everyone was on the ball,No youre quite right it was just Eubank wasnt it.

[ICB]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

When did Joe Calzaghe ever beat Nigel Benn ? in a bar brawl ? because he never beat him in the ring.

HaHa,Well done i was checking that everyone was on the ball,No youre quite right it was just Eubank wasnt it.

Were pretty knowledgable here mate, you should learn alot here. And you should enjoy your time here, have some rep from me to welcome you to the forum.

[Trainer Monkey]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

And I would add,that argument is a non starter
Bruno was huge here,the Klitschko's are both huge here,Valuev,Chageav
I keep having this same argument,but ignore Rocky 4, Americans just arent that nationalistic,its too big a country,the midwest and the Northeast have nothing in common whatsoever,and frankly dont care for each other

[bambamdaddio]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

Well said mate & thats a lot like my own thinking too

[bambamdaddio]

There's enough quotes and stories from people involved with Hopkins and Calzaghe to SHOW Calzaghe was chasing a fight that didn't happen.

AS you just said "Boxing is a business." So when Joe became a BIG enough name, to earn both sides big enough money, the fights happened. That would make sense from a business point of view, right? Whereas fighting a no-name, who is CLEARLY extremely talented, would not have made sense back then, right?

So either way there's no dodging or ducking bollocks going on. The fights happen when they make business sense.

Thank you ... because Fensters post saved me some typing...& to zhubin There is a very naive school of thought by us deluded JC fans .....

& THAT IS,

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE JOE CALZAGHE WAS SIMPLY TOO BIG A RISK TO TAKE UNLESS THEY WAS TO BE GIVEN FORT KNOX FOR THERE EFFORTS BACK THEN.....

& Had Joe not gone to the states eventually, the fights would never have been made .... because Hopkins & Jones sure as hell had made it clear enough that there was no way that they would be coming to Europe let alone GB any time soon FACT.

3 Other Facts.....

1) No, I wasn't Joking...But surely you was when saying ..

"George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment"

2) No, Im not ignorant, But to high-lite a pretty good deifnition of what ignorance is read the above quote from yourself, because for you to typcast JC fans per se as if we are robotic & lacking in any boxing insite where JC is concerned ... & for you to presume that Im some kinda JC cheer leader that bats his eye lashes at anything he does in the ring ...IS IGNORANT...

3) However, whatever, whenever....JC went to the states when it made good sense (A buisness you said, did you read the beggining of your post) & beat both the fighters that you mention & got more money than he would have a decade ago....

I apologize for writing that you might be ignorant. When things get heated...sometimes things are said that should't be. Fenster, the business end of boxing is a he said/she said affair. One fighter/promoter can say one thing...while another has a completely different side of the story. And let's say the Bernard fight wasn't his fault...that still doesn't excuse the majority of his career, until just recently, being in Wales. I am fully aware of Calzaghe's p4p status...but that doesn't translate to him being a "big name"...especially here in the states. The PPV sales for the Jones fight where very disappointing...imagine if Calzaghe was fighting someone of a lesser name than Jones here.

Mate apologies fully accepted ... ill take you of my ignorant list now lol, & no worries re getting heated ... we all do it & I think we will both agree that where JC is concerned opinions in some areas will always be divided ... & a good job too as we would not be on forums debating would we

[bambamdaddio]

Lol ... even if ya dont agree with Fenster ... what he states & the facts he uses really do make sense tho...

Lots of sense too

[ICB]

Bernard Hopkins for whatever reason priced himself out, and RJJ was too big of a star at that time, he didn't need Joe Calzaghe and didn't need to take the risk. Thats about it really Joe Calzaghe couldn't have really made many better choices, except move up to Light Heavyweight a few years ago.

When he said he was tight at the weight and im pretty sure he would of got a big fight, but then theres the flipside that if he would of done that. He wouldn't of been able to fight Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy. Which were big wins for him.

Theres few names here and there he could of fought at Super Middleweight, but overall he's done very well with his career. And if i was Joe Calzaghe i wouldn't really look back and say i missed any big opportunities.

It is a shame though Joe Calzaghe was a bit too young to fight fighters like Steve Collins, Mike McCallum, Nigel Benn, James Toney, ETC. I think he came along too late when all our best british fighters had retired or ETC. And most of the top American fighters had moved up in a different weightclass.

[bambamdaddio]

Bernard Hopkins for whatever reason priced himself out, and RJJ was too big of a star at that time, he didn't need Joe Calzaghe and didn't need to take the risk. Thats about it really Joe Calzaghe couldn't have really made many better choices, except move up to Light Heavyweight a few years ago.

When he said he was tight at the weight and im pretty sure he would of got a big fight, but then theres the flipside that if he would of done that. He wouldn't of been able to fight Mikkel Kessler, Jeff Lacy. Which were big wins for him.

Theres few names here and there he could of fought at Super Middleweight, but overall he's done very well with his career. And if i was Joe Calzaghe i wouldn't really look back and say i missed any big opportunities.

It is a shame though Joe Calzaghe was a bit too young to fight fighters like Steve Collins, Mike McCallum, Nigel Benn, James Toney, ETC. I think he came along too late when all our best british fighters had retired or ETC. And most of the top American fighters had moved up in a different weightclass.

Simple but fair comment bud