Calzaghe ducked the best?

[Trainer Monkey]

Thank you ... because Fensters post saved me some typing...& to zhubin There is a very naive school of thought by us deluded JC fans .....

& THAT IS,

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE JOE CALZAGHE WAS SIMPLY TOO BIG A RISK TO TAKE UNLESS THEY WAS TO BE GIVEN FORT KNOX FOR THERE EFFORTS BACK THEN.....

& Had Joe not gone to the states eventually, the fights would never have been made .... because Hopkins & Jones sure as hell had made it clear enough that there was no way that they would be coming to Europe let alone GB any time soon FACT.

3 Other Facts.....

1) No, I wasn't Joking...But surely you was when saying ..

"George Foreman could come out of retirement....fight Joe and lose....and some of y'all would find a way to dress that up as an accomplishment"

2) No, Im not ignorant, But to high-lite a pretty good deifnition of what ignorance is read the above quote from yourself, because for you to typcast JC fans per se as if we are robotic & lacking in any boxing insite where JC is concerned ... & for you to presume that Im some kinda JC cheer leader that bats his eye lashes at anything he does in the ring ...IS IGNORANT...

3) However, whatever, whenever....JC went to the states when it made good sense (A buisness you said, did you read the beggining of your post) & beat both the fighters that you mention & got more money than he would have a decade ago....

I apologize for writing that you might be ignorant. When things get heated...sometimes things are said that should't be. Fenster, the business end of boxing is a he said/she said affair. One fighter/promoter can say one thing...while another has a completely different side of the story. And let's say the Bernard fight wasn't his fault...that still doesn't excuse the majority of his career, until just recently, being in Wales. I am fully aware of Calzaghe's p4p status...but that doesn't translate to him being a "big name"...especially here in the states. The PPV sales for the Jones fight where very disappointing...imagine if Calzaghe was fighting someone of a lesser name than Jones here.

The PPV sales were even WORSE for Hopkins-Pavlik (190,000). I think ALL the recent PPVs are doing bad?

But that's the whole point. Even when Calzaghe gained worldwide recognition as a P4P fighter, and with HBO backing, he still doesn't do great numbers in the States. Boxing is about money.

Calzaghe was a LESSER name back then. So maybe the fights didn't make sense to the likes of Roy and Hopkins. Why fight a dangerous foreigner that no one knows

What also screws the pooch,is Hopkins really wanted Jones,probably not anymore,but Bernard spent years calling out Jones.I think Roy was smart enough to know what alot of us allready did,he's shot,and wanted no part of it. He only finally took Calzeghe for a paycheck

[joniebeeuk]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

[ICB]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

When did Joe Calzaghe ever beat Nigel Benn ? in a bar brawl ? because he never beat him in the ring.

[joniebeeuk]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

When did Joe Calzaghe ever beat Nigel Benn ? in a bar brawl ? because he never beat him in the ring.

HaHa,Well done i was checking that everyone was on the ball,No youre quite right it was just Eubank wasnt it.

[ICB]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

When did Joe Calzaghe ever beat Nigel Benn ? in a bar brawl ? because he never beat him in the ring.

HaHa,Well done i was checking that everyone was on the ball,No youre quite right it was just Eubank wasnt it.

Were pretty knowledgable here mate, you should learn alot here. And you should enjoy your time here, have some rep from me to welcome you to the forum.

[gudnite vienna]

its a shame Joe never got to fight Collins like he was supposed to, he would of been given a lot of kudos for winning that fight looking back now..

Wat do you think ICB?

[ICB]

its a shame Joe never got to fight Collins like he was supposed to, he would of been given a lot of kudos for winning that fight looking back now..

Wat do you think ICB?

Yes he would have but im not sure how much Steve Collins had left at that point, he had been in with alot of good names Mike McCallum, Chris Eubank x2, Nigel Benn x2, Sumbu Kalambay, ETC. And all those fights would of took something out of him.

But saying that he still looked like he had alot left in his last fight, he was actually knocked down in the opening seconds although no punch landed. But then that seemed to fire him up because he had Craig Cummings down later in the round. And he then proceeded to beat the living crap out of him.

I think Steve Collins would of gave Joe Calzaghe all he could handle, Joe Calzaghe was inexperienced at the world stage at that time. And im not sure how he would of dealt with the rough/tough style of Steve Collins. Because history shows Joe Calzaghe has struggled in those kind of fights before.

It would of been a very good fight though and i can't really pick a winner, because Joe Calzaghe was still inexperienced. But Steve Collins also had eye problems, and he passed out in sparring while getting ready for Joe Calzaghe, so im not sure how much he had left.

[Trainer Monkey]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

And I would add,that argument is a non starter
Bruno was huge here,the Klitschko's are both huge here,Valuev,Chageav
I keep having this same argument,but ignore Rocky 4, Americans just arent that nationalistic,its too big a country,the midwest and the Northeast have nothing in common whatsoever,and frankly dont care for each other

[bambamdaddio]

For me the argument that Calzaghe isnt all that cos he stayed away from the US and only went there at the end of his career is a non starter.Everybody says how he only fought Hopkins and Jones jr at the end of their careers,But nobody mentions that Joe is also at the end of his career,And his best days are behind him,You would think that Joe fought them in his prime by the one sided arguments.Who cares that he didnt go to the US,Boxing does exist outside the US,Two of Joes earliest wins were against Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank,Two British legends.The plain fact is that if Joe was American he would be the dogs bollocks but cos he aint the US dont want to know.

Well said mate & thats a lot like my own thinking too