Someone explain this to me (Floyd/Hatton weight issue)

[Trainer Monkey]

I dont think anyone is saying he would have beaten Mayweather,but he would have had a much better shot if he had been tighter and in better shape is more what both of us are saying.
I still think Floyd would end up being too slick for Hatton's style,but he would have had a better shot at it lighter

Spot on Bro .. simple as that

So you are saying he would have won more rounds? Or maybe see the final bell? Or maybe he had more of a punchers chance? If you are not saying he would win, then maybe I missed the original point of this topic as written by beanflicker:

Apart from Joe Cortez, the biggest excuse for his loss was the weight they fought at. Both guys are the same height, Ricky started his career (and stayed) at 140, Floyd starts his career at 130. Ricky is known as the bigger fighter, a guy who balloons up between fights and kills himself to make weight.

So how would the fight have been any different if both men had to weight in at 140? People say Ricky isn't a WW. True, but neither is Mayweather. Mayweather is just a guy fighting in weight classes he has no business in because he's going where the money is.

So how would have 140 made the fight different? You'd think weighting at 147 would benefit Ricky more, because he's the guy who kills himself making weight. Would extra hours spent in the sauna cutting weight make Ricky better? Would making 140 be to PBF's detriment? Why? He's in shape 24/7, 365 and never has an issue making weight.

More of a punchers chance,and his activity rate would have been better,Ricky's activity rate seems to slow when he gets heavier,Floyd is not a fighter you can afford that against,because say what you wish about Floyd,his activity rate is top notch.
Every time Ive seen Ricky carrying a few extra pounds he looks sluggish,and not at all fast off the mark.
Against a guy with an S-y chin maybe it wouldnt have made an ounce of difference,but that isnt PBF

[killersheep]

Spot on Bro .. simple as that

So you are saying he would have won more rounds? Or maybe see the final bell? Or maybe he had more of a punchers chance? If you are not saying he would win, then maybe I missed the original point of this topic as written by beanflicker:

Apart from Joe Cortez, the biggest excuse for his loss was the weight they fought at. Both guys are the same height, Ricky started his career (and stayed) at 140, Floyd starts his career at 130. Ricky is known as the bigger fighter, a guy who balloons up between fights and kills himself to make weight.

So how would the fight have been any different if both men had to weight in at 140? People say Ricky isn't a WW. True, but neither is Mayweather. Mayweather is just a guy fighting in weight classes he has no business in because he's going where the money is.

So how would have 140 made the fight different? You'd think weighting at 147 would benefit Ricky more, because he's the guy who kills himself making weight. Would extra hours spent in the sauna cutting weight make Ricky better? Would making 140 be to PBF's detriment? Why? He's in shape 24/7, 365 and never has an issue making weight.

More of a punchers chance,and his activity rate would have been better,Ricky's activity rate seems to slow when he gets heavier,Floyd is not a fighter you can afford that against,because say what you wish about Floyd,his activity rate is top notch.
Every time Ive seen Ricky carrying a few extra pounds he looks sluggish,and not at all fast off the mark.
Against a guy with an S-y chin maybe it wouldnt have made an ounce of difference,but that isnt PBF

So you are saying he COULD have won?

[Trainer Monkey]

So you are saying he would have won more rounds? Or maybe see the final bell? Or maybe he had more of a punchers chance? If you are not saying he would win, then maybe I missed the original point of this topic as written by beanflicker:

More of a punchers chance,and his activity rate would have been better,Ricky's activity rate seems to slow when he gets heavier,Floyd is not a fighter you can afford that against,because say what you wish about Floyd,his activity rate is top notch.
Every time Ive seen Ricky carrying a few extra pounds he looks sluggish,and not at all fast off the mark.
Against a guy with an S-y chin maybe it wouldnt have made an ounce of difference,but that isnt PBF

So you are saying he COULD have won?

It would have been dumb luck,but you can improve your own luck,coming in at the shape was not a huge help to Hatton.
Hell if Manfreddy could have closed better he could have gotten Mayweather
If may only have two letters in it,but its a damned big word in boxing

[killersheep]

More of a punchers chance,and his activity rate would have been better,Ricky's activity rate seems to slow when he gets heavier,Floyd is not a fighter you can afford that against,because say what you wish about Floyd,his activity rate is top notch.
Every time Ive seen Ricky carrying a few extra pounds he looks sluggish,and not at all fast off the mark.
Against a guy with an S-y chin maybe it wouldnt have made an ounce of difference,but that isnt PBF

So you are saying he COULD have won?

It would have been dumb luck,but you can improve your own luck,coming in at the shape was not a huge help to Hatton.
Hell if Manfreddy could have closed better he could have gotten Mayweather
If may only have two letters in it,but its a damned big word in boxing

I don't believe Manfredy had hurt Mayweather enough to close the show even if he jumped on him, did he hurt Mayweather? Yes but not as bad as people have been claiming lately. But that has nothing to do with this argument.
At this point I am just trying to understand your argument. You are saying that by Hatton fighting Mayweather at 140 he would have better luck and that would potentially change the outcome of the fight. Is that correct?

[Trainer Monkey]

So you are saying he COULD have won?

It would have been dumb luck,but you can improve your own luck,coming in at the shape was not a huge help to Hatton.
Hell if Manfreddy could have closed better he could have gotten Mayweather
If may only have two letters in it,but its a damned big word in boxing

I don't believe Manfredy had hurt Mayweather enough to close the show even if he jumped on him, did he hurt Mayweather? Yes but not as bad as people have been claiming lately. But that has nothing to do with this argument.
At this point I am just trying to understand your argument. You are saying that by Hatton fighting Mayweather at 140 he would have better luck and that would potentially change the outcome of the fight. Is that correct?

What both of us are saying,is he would have taken his conditioning more seriously,Ricky is a crack the whip sort of fighter,and alot of that whip is holding his weight over his head. He bloats easy,and if you let him,he'll try to cheat down his weight using Sauna suits over training,he's more likely to train harder,if you need him in at a lighter weight then a greater one.

[killersheep]

It would have been dumb luck,but you can improve your own luck,coming in at the shape was not a huge help to Hatton.
Hell if Manfreddy could have closed better he could have gotten Mayweather
If may only have two letters in it,but its a damned big word in boxing

I don't believe Manfredy had hurt Mayweather enough to close the show even if he jumped on him, did he hurt Mayweather? Yes but not as bad as people have been claiming lately. But that has nothing to do with this argument.
At this point I am just trying to understand your argument. You are saying that by Hatton fighting Mayweather at 140 he would have better luck and that would potentially change the outcome of the fight. Is that correct?

What both of us are saying,is he would have taken his conditioning more seriously,Ricky is a crack the whip sort of fighter,and alot of that whip is holding his weight over his head. He bloats easy,and if you let him,he'll try to cheat down his weight using Sauna suits over training,he's more likely to train harder,if you need him in at a lighter weight then a greater one.

OK..........um...........again just trying to make sure I understand this argument and how it applies to the topic of the thread here, so bear with me. You are saying that he would have trained harder and been more conditioned and faster at 140, and that would have changed the outcome of the Mayweather fight because it would have improved his luck?

[bambamdaddio]

I don't believe Manfredy had hurt Mayweather enough to close the show even if he jumped on him, did he hurt Mayweather? Yes but not as bad as people have been claiming lately. But that has nothing to do with this argument.
At this point I am just trying to understand your argument. You are saying that by Hatton fighting Mayweather at 140 he would have better luck and that would potentially change the outcome of the fight. Is that correct?

What both of us are saying,is he would have taken his conditioning more seriously,Ricky is a crack the whip sort of fighter,and alot of that whip is holding his weight over his head. He bloats easy,and if you let him,he'll try to cheat down his weight using Sauna suits over training,he's more likely to train harder,if you need him in at a lighter weight then a greater one.

OK..........um...........again just trying to make sure I understand this argument and how it applies to the topic of the thread here, so bear with me. You are saying that he would have trained harder and been more conditioned and faster at 140, and that would have changed the outcome of the Mayweather fight because it would have improved his luck?

No he is saying its quite probable that Hatton gives a better account of himself at his best & more disciplined weight division... which is what the thread asked us to do just offer up an explanation .. one that Ive been plus repped for by the thread writer for offering a reasonable explanartion ...even if he dont agree ...

Who agrees or not dont matter all Im doing is trying to offer up a reasonable answer to the question asked..

Agree with me or dont ... I really dont care but Ive so far caused 5 pages of debate for bea\n flicker gainig loadsa view points some that agree with me some that dont ....

So to me its job done ...I aint gonna please you all with my posts all the time just like you all aint gonna please me ... thats life & thats debate

[Spicoli]

More of a punchers chance,and his activity rate would have been better,Ricky's activity rate seems to slow when he gets heavier,Floyd is not a fighter you can afford that against,because say what you wish about Floyd,his activity rate is top notch.
Every time Ive seen Ricky carrying a few extra pounds he looks sluggish,and not at all fast off the mark.
Against a guy with an S-y chin maybe it wouldnt have made an ounce of difference,but that isnt PBF

So you are saying he COULD have won?

It would have been dumb luck,but you can improve your own luck,coming in at the shape was not a huge help to Hatton.
Hell if Manfreddy could have closed better he could have gotten Mayweather
If may only have two letters in it,but its a damned big word in boxing

Really...you think

[bambamdaddio]

So you are saying he would have won more rounds? Or maybe see the final bell? Or maybe he had more of a punchers chance? If you are not saying he would win, then maybe I missed the original point of this topic as written by beanflicker:

More of a punchers chance,and his activity rate would have been better,Ricky's activity rate seems to slow when he gets heavier,Floyd is not a fighter you can afford that against,because say what you wish about Floyd,his activity rate is top notch.
Every time Ive seen Ricky carrying a few extra pounds he looks sluggish,and not at all fast off the mark.
Against a guy with an S-y chin maybe it wouldnt have made an ounce of difference,but that isnt PBF

So you are saying he COULD have won?

Personaly I dont thinks so, but then Im not God so who knows what fate holds...

[ono]

Ok i'll have a go.....

Let's get this out of the way first.....Hatton wouldn't beat Mayweather at any weight. And this might not apply directly to Hatton-Mayweather but....


Sometimes a fighter who starts off at a much lower weight can actually be malnutritioned. Not in the sense that millions of people are in third world countries....just in a boxing sense.

The amount of carbohydrates required to enable you to go through a training camp for a period of 10-12 weeks is extortionate. Now if a fighter is training for 3 hours a day and not consuming enough carbohydrates, he will lose a lot of muscle mass......or he will not develop much...if any muscle mass if he is very light to begin with. It could be that Mayweather never previously gave himself the chance to fill out at a more natural weight....because he was under-eating and comfortable at his existing weight. This is something that does happen to fighters....especially those who are very conscious about making weight.

What this fighter will find is, that when he comes to moving up in weight, he finds the transition really easy as an increase in carbohydrate and protein allows him to easily add muscle mass.

Now the advantage this fighter will now possess at is new found weight, will likely be core strength.....especially over a fighter who is definitely fighting above his natural weight. An example of this would be at how Mayweather was stronger than Hatton on the inside.

Now people are going to say that Hatton's natural weight is well over 147. That's correct but how much of that is lean mass? Hardly any. It's practically all fat. So he'll have no advantage.

Anybody remember how much bigger Mayweather looked at the weigh in?

Anyway this theory might not have applied to this fight....because we don't know the ins and outs of Mayweather's training camp/diet etc...

Anyway it comes down to core strength, and just because a fighter was successful at a much lower weight, it doesn't necessarily mean that was his natural weight.

Like i say, may not have been the case with Floyd Mayweather. I'm pretty sure it's the case with Manny though. Maybe we'll see on dec 6th.

[ono]

Sorry for the double post. Not sure why it did that.

[bambamdaddio]

Sorry for the double post. Not sure why it did that.

Its ok bud .. interesting post tho ... Ive worked in the fitness industry for the last 20 years or so as an adviser, presenter, course tutor, personal trainer, & Gym manager, used to box a little but did a lot of Judo competiton & suffered re the weight as I weighed 82 kgs, and I know who ever I fought in the under 86 kgs was always a lot harde than when I fought in the under 78 kgs wher I really had to work & train hard to make the weight but I was so much sharper and with so much more stamina as well as being less sluggish too

[ono]

Sorry for the double post. Not sure why it did that.

Its ok bud .. interesting post tho ... Ive worked in the fitness industry for the last 20 years or so as an adviser, presenter, course tutor, personal trainer, & Gym manager, used to box a little but did a lot of Judo competiton & suffered re the weight as I weighed 82 kgs, and I know who ever I fought in the under 86 kgs was always a lot harde than when I fought in the under 78 kgs wher I really had to work & train hard to make the weight but I was so much sharper and with so much more stamina as well as being less sluggish too

Cool, i'm halfway through getting my diploma in sports nutrition.

[Althugz]

Ok i'll have a go.....

Let's get this out of the way first.....Hatton wouldn't beat Mayweather at any weight. And this might not apply directly to Hatton-Mayweather but....


Sometimes a fighter who starts off at a much lower weight can actually be malnutritioned. Not in the sense that millions of people are in third world countries....just in a boxing sense.

The amount of carbohydrates required to enable you to go through a training camp for a period of 10-12 weeks is extortionate. Now if a fighter is training for 3 hours a day and not consuming enough carbohydrates, he will lose a lot of muscle mass......or he will not develop much...if any muscle mass if he is very light to begin with. It could be that Mayweather never previously gave himself the chance to fill out at a more natural weight....because he was under-eating and comfortable at his existing weight. This is something that does happen to fighters....especially those who are very conscious about making weight.

What this fighter will find is, that when he comes to moving up in weight, he finds the transition really easy as an increase in carbohydrate and protein allows him to easily add muscle mass.

Now the advantage this fighter will now possess at is new found weight, will likely be core strength.....especially over a fighter who is definitely fighting above his natural weight. An example of this would be at how Mayweather was stronger than Hatton on the inside.

Now people are going to say that Hatton's natural weight is well over 147. That's correct but how much of that is lean mass? Hardly any. It's practically all fat. So he'll have no advantage.

Anybody remember how much bigger Mayweather looked at the weigh in?

Anyway this theory might not have applied to this fight....because we don't know the ins and outs of Mayweather's training camp/diet etc...

Anyway it comes down to core strength, and just because a fighter was successful at a much lower weight, it doesn't necessarily mean that was his natural weight.

Like i say, may not have been the case with Floyd Mayweather. I'm pretty sure it's the case with Manny though. Maybe we'll see on dec 6th.

That is quite interesting, I agree.

Not sure that you'd develop core strength purely through eating a diet higher in protein and carbohydrates.

You'd have to factor in some core training as well which Floyds seems to be fantastic. Havn't seen much of Ricky's core regimen ( not to say it isn't good)

Also if you are draining yourself to be at a lower weight then all of your muscles will probably be weaker, including your core muscles, than they would be if you were at your optimum weight.

[ono]

Ok i'll have a go.....

Let's get this out of the way first.....Hatton wouldn't beat Mayweather at any weight. And this might not apply directly to Hatton-Mayweather but....


Sometimes a fighter who starts off at a much lower weight can actually be malnutritioned. Not in the sense that millions of people are in third world countries....just in a boxing sense.

The amount of carbohydrates required to enable you to go through a training camp for a period of 10-12 weeks is extortionate. Now if a fighter is training for 3 hours a day and not consuming enough carbohydrates, he will lose a lot of muscle mass......or he will not develop much...if any muscle mass if he is very light to begin with. It could be that Mayweather never previously gave himself the chance to fill out at a more natural weight....because he was under-eating and comfortable at his existing weight. This is something that does happen to fighters....especially those who are very conscious about making weight.

What this fighter will find is, that when he comes to moving up in weight, he finds the transition really easy as an increase in carbohydrate and protein allows him to easily add muscle mass.

Now the advantage this fighter will now possess at is new found weight, will likely be core strength.....especially over a fighter who is definitely fighting above his natural weight. An example of this would be at how Mayweather was stronger than Hatton on the inside.

Now people are going to say that Hatton's natural weight is well over 147. That's correct but how much of that is lean mass? Hardly any. It's practically all fat. So he'll have no advantage.

Anybody remember how much bigger Mayweather looked at the weigh in?

Anyway this theory might not have applied to this fight....because we don't know the ins and outs of Mayweather's training camp/diet etc...

Anyway it comes down to core strength, and just because a fighter was successful at a much lower weight, it doesn't necessarily mean that was his natural weight.

Like i say, may not have been the case with Floyd Mayweather. I'm pretty sure it's the case with Manny though. Maybe we'll see on dec 6th.

That is quite interesting, I agree.

Not sure that you'd develop core strength purely through eating a diet higher in protein and carbohydrates.

You'd have to factor in some core training as well which Floyds seems to be fantastic. Havn't seen much of Ricky's core regimen ( not to say it isn't good)

Also if you are draining yourself to be at a lower weight then all of your muscles will probably be weaker, including your core muscles, than they would be if you were at your optimum weight.

You don't. That's my point. It could be that he is naturally a lot bigger than what we all think. So once he fights at the heavier weights, his core stength is pretty much already there.....because he's fighting at a natural weight. Wheras Ricky has to consciously weight-train, specifically to add the 7lb of muscle.

What you've put in bold is pretty much what i'm thinking....altho i don't know how much Floyd drained himself at 130/135.