Question about a fighters "prime" / "past his best"

[Fenster]

i think many of the current p4p top 10 could be classed as past their best

however it all dpeneds when they get the big fights or even just recognition, look at calderon for example he is only just breaking into the top ten but i dont think you can argue that his at his best, his recent performances showing his is slowing down and is on the downslide of his career imo

If that's the case he must have looked incredible in his pomp? Yet he has ONLY just been P4P ranked.

Funny old game

[hitmanhatton]

well yes calderon was/is a great fighter, what i mean is look at the first fight with cazares (sp?) he slowed in the second half of the fight and got hit with shots he wouldnt have a few years earlier,

for a 108 lb fighter 33 is very old and its a testement to his skills that he is still going so strong

i really am just stretching out what 'past their best' actually means, for example Hatton will never have another tszyu type performance imo so he can be classed as past his best

Hopkins is the real star of the list though as you could argue that the pavlik fight was his best ever performance and even if not his other great performance (tito) was when he was about 36,37

[Fenster]

well yes calderon was/is a great fighter, what i mean is look at the first fight with cazares (sp?) he slowed in the second half of the fight and got hit with shots he wouldnt have a few years earlier,

for a 108 lb fighter 33 is very old and its a testement to his skills that he is still going so strong

i really am just stretching out what 'past their best' actually means, for example Hatton will never have another tszyu type performance imo so he can be classed as past his best

Hopkins is the real star of the list though as you could argue that the pavlik fight was his best ever performance and even if not his other great performance (tito) was when he was about 36,37

Can't it be Calderon struggled because Cazares is a naturally bigger, tougher fighter than what he was facing before?

At 33 he has more recognition from the boxing world than when he was younger. So was he REALLY that much better?

[hitmanhatton]

in the early rounds of the first fight and for pretty much all of the rematch calderon made cazares look silly had no trouble making him miss etc

so why in the first fight did calderon then get tagged and dropped in the later rounds?? could it be that age is simply catching up with him

he is still a very good techincal boxer, possibly the best pure boxer in the world today

however all though he may have not THAT much better in the past but he has been at least slightly better and that would be what i would consider as his BEST which he is now PAST

[Fenster]

in the early rounds of the first fight and for pretty much all of the rematch calderon made cazares look silly had no trouble making him miss etc

so why in the first fight did calderon then get tagged and dropped in the later rounds?? could it be that age is simply catching up with him

he is still a very good techincal boxer, possibly the best pure boxer in the world today

however all though he may have not THAT much better in the past but he has been at least slightly better and that would be what i would consider as his BEST which he is now PAST

"he is still a very good techincal boxer, possibly the best pure boxer in the world today"

This is the point. If the guy is STILL one of the BEST fighters today, should he LOSE next time, it is completely hypocritical to claim he was "past his best." His "best" shouldn't take credit from the man that betters him. Especially when it's virtually impossible to determine someones "best"

If you're rated as one of the BEST fighters in the world.. excuses shouldn't count

[hitmanhatton]

yes i agree you shouldnt take anything away from whoever beats them, but my argument is not that he is not one of the best in the world but he is not at HIS own personal best due to his age

[GAME]

yes i agree you shouldnt take anything away from whoever beats them, but my argument is not that he is not one of the best in the world but he is not at HIS own personal best due to his age

The problem is people arent conistant with it for example if they like a fighter he was past it when he lost but if they were glad to see him lose it had nothing to do with his prime

example

Nobody gave Berbick any credit for dominating Ali

[CGM]

well yes calderon was/is a great fighter, what i mean is look at the first fight with cazares (sp?) he slowed in the second half of the fight and got hit with shots he wouldnt have a few years earlier,

for a 108 lb fighter 33 is very old and its a testement to his skills that he is still going so strong

i really am just stretching out what 'past their best' actually means, for example Hatton will never have another tszyu type performance imo so he can be classed as past his best

Hopkins is the real star of the list though as you could argue that the pavlik fight was his best ever performance and even if not his other great performance (tito) was when he was about 36,37

IMO Hopkins ring savvy is what makes those two performances great. But if you look at some of his older fights, I don't think there is any denying that he had better physical tools when he fought guys like Glen Johnson in his early 30s.

[hitmanhatton]

yes you are right however i think he was more suited to 160 especially then and maybe that has something to do with it,

his physical peak has passed but his ring savvy lets him pull out these performances at the age he is, he is imo the cleverest man in boxing and it is as much a mental sport as it is physical especially at the top level