Mumbai

[CGM]

Sigh, these discussions go on forever.

We'll pu aside the England/Northern Ireland thing. If you don't want to recognize the nationalistic aspects of that dispute, then there is enough other stuff to waste our breath on.

Ok so call the WTC and AlQuaida crap if you want. Dismiss them as a few lunatics if you want, that is not at all helpful.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but WTC attack was directed at the US, not Christianity. And there is likely more of that to come. No one is asking you to crawl under the covers, just to recognize a few basic truths about your enemy. And you don't have to take my word for all this stuff, you can check with your own Department of Homeland Security, unless you think they are crap too?

TM, do you seriously honestly believe that the United States, and therefore you as a citizen, have as much to fear from white supremacists as you do from Al Quaida and others of their ilk? Give this question some serious thought, then answer directly.

Guess what, as your ally, we up here are also putiing ourselves at a certain amount of risk.

One more thing and I repeat for perhaps the 10th time: I never denied the existence of Christian Terrorists, got it? You can stop trying to rebut my points by telling me that they exist.

Again just recognize a few basic truths about your enemy.

Ahhh,aside from the unnecessary bold text your getting to the crux of the matter.
We have screwed with these people for their entire lives,and now they want a little payback.
It doesnt have thing to do with religion,it has alot to do with bad policy that involved bombs on our part.
We've bombed the snot out of these people,disrespected their customs, and propped up one dictator after another.
Who did you think they were going to blame for it,the Easter Bunny?
As ye reap,so shall ye sow
We've done alot of reaping over there in the last 50 years.

No you are incorrect. There has been no concerted effort on the part of the US or any significant part of the US to kill lots of Muslim civilians. Dude, do do you really honestly think that with all the bombing that the US has conducted, that it was really an attmpt to kill civilians, because by golly if that was the case then, as I have stated, there would be far far more dead muslims civilians. Why do you think the US is having so much trouble in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is due in large part to the lack of respect groups like ALQuaida have for civilian life, shit they have no problem killing Iraqis just to try and make us look bad. It's because the US is trying not to kill civilians. Although obviously they are not having 100% success.

Sorry about the bold, but you seem to be consistently ignoring the crux of my points. YOu speak of the evil US and their bombing and all, and a few white supremacists but you have consistently ignored the key issues about indiscriminate killing of civilians. As many as possible. No other group has taken this stated position. What do you think these guys mean when they walk down the street whacking themselves bloody with 2 by 4s, chanting "Death to the Great Satan"? Do you see White Supremacists obtaining nukes, and bioweapons? Are you prepared to say we are no better all the way to your grave?

[Kirkland Laing]

YOu speak of the evil US and their bombing and all, and a few white supremacists but you have consistently ignored the key issues about indiscriminate killing of civilians. As many as possible. No other group has taken this stated position. What do you think these guys mean when they walk down the street whacking themselves bloody with 2 by 4s, chanting "Death to the Great Satan"? Do you see White Supremacists obtaining nukes, and bioweapons? Are you prepared to say we are no better all the way to your grave?

Every terrorist group ends up indiscriminately killing civilians. This is true of Irish, Sri Lankan, Peruvian, Jewish, you name it terrorist groups. They generally call them collateral damage, AQ are just a bit more honest about things.

People chanting Death to America are generally people who lived decades under a dictator that America propped up and kept in power for those decades. An Iranian guy I went to university with told me that his father and grandfather had had boiling water poured up their arses by the US-trained Iranian secret police for information on a friend of theirs who the authorities were worried about. I don't know about you but if somebody poured boiling water up my arse I'd chant death to whoever it was too.

White supremacists have had half a century of unrivalled freedom, peace and prosperity. Right now the real nuts are confined to compounds in Michigan and similar places where they practice military drills in the woods every weekend so they're prepared when the United Nations invades America. If they'd been living under a puppet US dictator installed by a foreign Islamic superpower then they'd have started trying to get their hands on nukes and whatnot decades ago. Again, one set of human beings are pretty much exactly the same as another. Trying to claim that there's some sort of difference between them is abject hypocrisy.

[Trainer Monkey]

Sigh, these discussions go on forever.

We'll pu aside the England/Northern Ireland thing. If you don't want to recognize the nationalistic aspects of that dispute, then there is enough other stuff to waste our breath on.

Ok so call the WTC and AlQuaida crap if you want. Dismiss them as a few lunatics if you want, that is not at all helpful.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but WTC attack was directed at the US, not Christianity. And there is likely more of that to come. No one is asking you to crawl under the covers, just to recognize a few basic truths about your enemy. And you don't have to take my word for all this stuff, you can check with your own Department of Homeland Security, unless you think they are crap too?

TM, do you seriously honestly believe that the United States, and therefore you as a citizen, have as much to fear from white supremacists as you do from Al Quaida and others of their ilk? Give this question some serious thought, then answer directly.

Guess what, as your ally, we up here are also putiing ourselves at a certain amount of risk.

One more thing and I repeat for perhaps the 10th time: I never denied the existence of Christian Terrorists, got it? You can stop trying to rebut my points by telling me that they exist.

Again just recognize a few basic truths about your enemy.

Ahhh,aside from the unnecessary bold text your getting to the crux of the matter.
We have screwed with these people for their entire lives,and now they want a little payback.
It doesnt have thing to do with religion,it has alot to do with bad policy that involved bombs on our part.
We've bombed the snot out of these people,disrespected their customs, and propped up one dictator after another.
Who did you think they were going to blame for it,the Easter Bunny?
As ye reap,so shall ye sow
We've done alot of reaping over there in the last 50 years.

No you are incorrect. There has been no concerted effort on the part of the US or any significant part of the US to kill lots of Muslim civilians. Dude, do do you really honestly think that with all the bombing that the US has conducted, that it was really an attmpt to kill civilians, because by golly if that was the case then, as I have stated, there would be far far more dead muslims civilians. Why do you think the US is having so much trouble in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is due in large part to the lack of respect groups like ALQuaida have for civilian life, shit they have no problem killing Iraqis just to try and make us look bad. It's because the US is trying not to kill civilians. Although obviously they are not having 100% success.

Sorry about the bold, but you seem to be consistently ignoring the crux of my points. YOu speak of the evil US and their bombing and all, and a few white supremacists but you have consistently ignored the key issues about indiscriminate killing of civilians. As many as possible. No other group has taken this stated position. What do you think these guys mean when they walk down the street whacking themselves bloody with 2 by 4s, chanting "Death to the Great Satan"? Do you see White Supremacists obtaining nukes, and bioweapons? Are you prepared to say we are no better all the way to your grave?

Really?
We sent nerve gas to Sadaam,blew the snot out of Iraq twice,propped up the Shah in Iran,fed weapons to the Iranians and the Saudi's,trained the mujahadeen,propped up Israel no matter what atrocity they did,and trained the Lebanese Christian Militias(this is the short list by the way) in an effort of good will to our fellow man?
Heaven forbid we actually really disliked someone,I suppose that would involve nukes,or plagues of locusts or something

[Trainer Monkey]

And I'll save you some effort on figuring out why the dont like us
American buildings destroyed by middle eastern residents=2
Middle Eastern buildings destroyed by Americans since 1991=Too many to count
American civilians killed by arab citizens=3000+
Arab citizens killed by Americans=Too many to count
US bases on Middle Eastern Soil=Numerous
Arab military bases on American Soil=O
This kind of thing has a tendency to make people a wee grumpy

[CGM]

Ahhh,aside from the unnecessary bold text your getting to the crux of the matter.
We have screwed with these people for their entire lives,and now they want a little payback.
It doesnt have thing to do with religion,it has alot to do with bad policy that involved bombs on our part.
We've bombed the snot out of these people,disrespected their customs, and propped up one dictator after another.
Who did you think they were going to blame for it,the Easter Bunny?
As ye reap,so shall ye sow
We've done alot of reaping over there in the last 50 years.

No you are incorrect. There has been no concerted effort on the part of the US or any significant part of the US to kill lots of Muslim civilians. Dude, do do you really honestly think that with all the bombing that the US has conducted, that it was really an attmpt to kill civilians, because by golly if that was the case then, as I have stated, there would be far far more dead muslims civilians. Why do you think the US is having so much trouble in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is due in large part to the lack of respect groups like ALQuaida have for civilian life, shit they have no problem killing Iraqis just to try and make us look bad. It's because the US is trying not to kill civilians. Although obviously they are not having 100% success.

Sorry about the bold, but you seem to be consistently ignoring the crux of my points. YOu speak of the evil US and their bombing and all, and a few white supremacists but you have consistently ignored the key issues about indiscriminate killing of civilians. As many as possible. No other group has taken this stated position. What do you think these guys mean when they walk down the street whacking themselves bloody with 2 by 4s, chanting "Death to the Great Satan"? Do you see White Supremacists obtaining nukes, and bioweapons? Are you prepared to say we are no better all the way to your grave?

Really?
We sent nerve gas to Sadaam,blew the snot out of Iraq twice,propped up the Shah in Iran,fed weapons to the Iranians and the Saudi's,trained the mujahadeen,propped up Israel no matter what atrocity they did,and trained the Lebanese Christian Militias(this is the short list by the way) in an effort of good will to our fellow man?
Heaven forbid we actually really disliked someone,I suppose that would involve nukes,or plagues of locusts or something

OK guy I will take this to indicate that you really do believe that you (The US) are no better than Al Quaida, and that you are getting what you deserve. I will also take this to mean that you really do believe that the USA wants to kill lots of civilians. I say that because you obviously disagree with me when I say that the US doesn't want to kill as many civilians as possible.

[Kirkland Laing]

No you are incorrect. There has been no concerted effort on the part of the US or any significant part of the US to kill lots of Muslim civilians. Dude, do do you really honestly think that with all the bombing that the US has conducted, that it was really an attmpt to kill civilians, because by golly if that was the case then, as I have stated, there would be far far more dead muslims civilians. Why do you think the US is having so much trouble in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is due in large part to the lack of respect groups like ALQuaida have for civilian life, shit they have no problem killing Iraqis just to try and make us look bad. It's because the US is trying not to kill civilians. Although obviously they are not having 100% success.

Sorry about the bold, but you seem to be consistently ignoring the crux of my points. YOu speak of the evil US and their bombing and all, and a few white supremacists but you have consistently ignored the key issues about indiscriminate killing of civilians. As many as possible. No other group has taken this stated position. What do you think these guys mean when they walk down the street whacking themselves bloody with 2 by 4s, chanting "Death to the Great Satan"? Do you see White Supremacists obtaining nukes, and bioweapons? Are you prepared to say we are no better all the way to your grave?

Really?
We sent nerve gas to Sadaam,blew the snot out of Iraq twice,propped up the Shah in Iran,fed weapons to the Iranians and the Saudi's,trained the mujahadeen,propped up Israel no matter what atrocity they did,and trained the Lebanese Christian Militias(this is the short list by the way) in an effort of good will to our fellow man?
Heaven forbid we actually really disliked someone,I suppose that would involve nukes,or plagues of locusts or something

OK guy I will take this to indicate that you really do believe that you (The US) are no better than Al Quaida, and that you are getting what you deserve. I will also take this to mean that you really do believe that the USA wants to kill lots of civilians. I say that because you obviously disagree with me when I say that the US doesn't want to kill as many civilians as possible.

The US doesn't have to target civilians. They have the world's most advanced military. They can spot something on a satellite, press a button on an aircraft carrier somewhere in the world and fire a missile to take the thing they saw out. Nobody can compete with America militarily which is why nobody tries and uses terrorism instead. I'm sure if you gave AQ billions of dollars of F-16s and Stealth bombers, aircraft carriers, spy satellites and tanks and years of training then they'd fight us using those weapons. They'd be much more effective. But they don't have them so they use what they've got.

[CGM]

Really?
We sent nerve gas to Sadaam,blew the snot out of Iraq twice,propped up the Shah in Iran,fed weapons to the Iranians and the Saudi's,trained the mujahadeen,propped up Israel no matter what atrocity they did,and trained the Lebanese Christian Militias(this is the short list by the way) in an effort of good will to our fellow man?
Heaven forbid we actually really disliked someone,I suppose that would involve nukes,or plagues of locusts or something

OK guy I will take this to indicate that you really do believe that you (The US) are no better than Al Quaida, and that you are getting what you deserve. I will also take this to mean that you really do believe that the USA wants to kill lots of civilians. I say that because you obviously disagree with me when I say that the US doesn't want to kill as many civilians as possible.

The US doesn't have to target civilians. They have the world's most advanced military. They can spot something on a satellite, press a button on an aircraft carrier somewhere in the world and fire a missile to take the thing they saw out. Nobody can compete with America militarily which is why nobody tries and uses terrorism instead. I'm sure if you gave AQ billions of dollars of F-16s and Stealth bombers, aircraft carriers, spy satellites and tanks and years of training then they'd fight us using those weapons. They'd be much more effective. But they don't have them so they use what they've got.

Thank you.

Fight us? Hell, they'd pave us over.

Use what they got? yep, they'll continue to get more and use it too.

[Trainer Monkey]

No you are incorrect. There has been no concerted effort on the part of the US or any significant part of the US to kill lots of Muslim civilians. Dude, do do you really honestly think that with all the bombing that the US has conducted, that it was really an attmpt to kill civilians, because by golly if that was the case then, as I have stated, there would be far far more dead muslims civilians. Why do you think the US is having so much trouble in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is due in large part to the lack of respect groups like ALQuaida have for civilian life, shit they have no problem killing Iraqis just to try and make us look bad. It's because the US is trying not to kill civilians. Although obviously they are not having 100% success.

Sorry about the bold, but you seem to be consistently ignoring the crux of my points. YOu speak of the evil US and their bombing and all, and a few white supremacists but you have consistently ignored the key issues about indiscriminate killing of civilians. As many as possible. No other group has taken this stated position. What do you think these guys mean when they walk down the street whacking themselves bloody with 2 by 4s, chanting "Death to the Great Satan"? Do you see White Supremacists obtaining nukes, and bioweapons? Are you prepared to say we are no better all the way to your grave?

Really?
We sent nerve gas to Sadaam,blew the snot out of Iraq twice,propped up the Shah in Iran,fed weapons to the Iranians and the Saudi's,trained the mujahadeen,propped up Israel no matter what atrocity they did,and trained the Lebanese Christian Militias(this is the short list by the way) in an effort of good will to our fellow man?
Heaven forbid we actually really disliked someone,I suppose that would involve nukes,or plagues of locusts or something

OK guy I will take this to indicate that you really do believe that you (The US) are no better than Al Quaida, and that you are getting what you deserve. I will also take this to mean that you really do believe that the USA wants to kill lots of civilians. I say that because you obviously disagree with me when I say that the US doesn't want to kill as many civilians as possible.

No even worse,our military doesnt give a shit who we hit,ask the Cambodians about our carpet bombing efforts.
Doesnt exactly help to win hearts and minds, when the heart is over here, and the mind is over there

[CGM]

Really?
We sent nerve gas to Sadaam,blew the snot out of Iraq twice,propped up the Shah in Iran,fed weapons to the Iranians and the Saudi's,trained the mujahadeen,propped up Israel no matter what atrocity they did,and trained the Lebanese Christian Militias(this is the short list by the way) in an effort of good will to our fellow man?
Heaven forbid we actually really disliked someone,I suppose that would involve nukes,or plagues of locusts or something

OK guy I will take this to indicate that you really do believe that you (The US) are no better than Al Quaida, and that you are getting what you deserve. I will also take this to mean that you really do believe that the USA wants to kill lots of civilians. I say that because you obviously disagree with me when I say that the US doesn't want to kill as many civilians as possible.

No even worse,our military doesnt give a shit who we hit,ask the Cambodians about our carpet bombing efforts.
Doesnt exactly help to win hearts and minds, when the heart is over here, and the mind is over there

OK bud, at least I understand your position a little better. Can't say I agree, but what else is new. Time to bring this little subthread to a close.

cheers.

[Kirkland Laing]

OK guy I will take this to indicate that you really do believe that you (The US) are no better than Al Quaida, and that you are getting what you deserve. I will also take this to mean that you really do believe that the USA wants to kill lots of civilians. I say that because you obviously disagree with me when I say that the US doesn't want to kill as many civilians as possible.

The US doesn't have to target civilians. They have the world's most advanced military. They can spot something on a satellite, press a button on an aircraft carrier somewhere in the world and fire a missile to take the thing they saw out. Nobody can compete with America militarily which is why nobody tries and uses terrorism instead. I'm sure if you gave AQ billions of dollars of F-16s and Stealth bombers, aircraft carriers, spy satellites and tanks and years of training then they'd fight us using those weapons. They'd be much more effective. But they don't have them so they use what they've got.

Thank you.

Fight us? Hell, they'd pave us over.

Use what they got? yep, they'll continue to get more and use it too.

But it's really not worth wetting the bed over a bunch of terrorists, they're no real strategic threat at all. Certainly our governments don't think it's a serious problem or they'd stop causing terrorism worldwide.

[CGM]

The US doesn't have to target civilians. They have the world's most advanced military. They can spot something on a satellite, press a button on an aircraft carrier somewhere in the world and fire a missile to take the thing they saw out. Nobody can compete with America militarily which is why nobody tries and uses terrorism instead. I'm sure if you gave AQ billions of dollars of F-16s and Stealth bombers, aircraft carriers, spy satellites and tanks and years of training then they'd fight us using those weapons. They'd be much more effective. But they don't have them so they use what they've got.

Thank you.

Fight us? Hell, they'd pave us over.

Use what they got? yep, they'll continue to get more and use it too.

But it's really not worth wetting the bed over a bunch of terrorists, they're no real strategic threat at all. Certainly our governments don't think it's a serious problem or they'd stop causing terrorism worldwide.

OK, so you are saying our governments are actually causing terrorism to happen, and they obviously don't think it's a big problem, or else all they'd have to do is just stop causing it. Sure dude, whatever you say.

[Kirkland Laing]

Thank you.

Fight us? Hell, they'd pave us over.

Use what they got? yep, they'll continue to get more and use it too.

But it's really not worth wetting the bed over a bunch of terrorists, they're no real strategic threat at all. Certainly our governments don't think it's a serious problem or they'd stop causing terrorism worldwide.

OK, so you are saying our governments are actually causing terrorism to happen, and they obviously don't think it's a big problem, or else all they'd have to do is just stop causing it. Sure dude, whatever you say.

If you'd been living under occupation or a dictatorship for decades how would you react? Maybe you wouldn't feel courageous enough to fight back yourself but in any group of one thousand or one million human beings anywhere on the planet there will be people who will. And if you're going to deny them the right to fight back, something you would want for yourself should you ever live under repression, you're just a big fat hypocrite.

[Trainer Monkey]

Thank you.

Fight us? Hell, they'd pave us over.

Use what they got? yep, they'll continue to get more and use it too.

But it's really not worth wetting the bed over a bunch of terrorists, they're no real strategic threat at all. Certainly our governments don't think it's a serious problem or they'd stop causing terrorism worldwide.

OK, so you are saying our governments are actually causing terrorism to happen, and they obviously don't think it's a big problem, or else all they'd have to do is just stop causing it. Sure dude, whatever you say.

See this what your not seeing the big picture,we've allways taken a ham handed easy route in our dealing with the middle east,and now its biting us in the ass.
We've almost had only two goals in the middle east,fight off the Russian Bear,and maintain affordable oil. To do that we have gotten cosy in to bed with some real scum balls. And people notice things like that. And considering its our money and supplies propping said scumballs up,people REALLY notice that kind of thing.
Our foreign policy over the years can be best described as disjointed an incoherent.

[yvonne]

All i will mention about this crazy act is that one of the terrorist was from my local town of Hartlepool(north-east of england).I hope he is dead!!Fooking fruit cake!!

[CGM]

But it's really not worth wetting the bed over a bunch of terrorists, they're no real strategic threat at all. Certainly our governments don't think it's a serious problem or they'd stop causing terrorism worldwide.

OK, so you are saying our governments are actually causing terrorism to happen, and they obviously don't think it's a big problem, or else all they'd have to do is just stop causing it. Sure dude, whatever you say.

If you'd been living under occupation or a dictatorship for decades how would you react? Maybe you wouldn't feel courageous enough to fight back yourself but in any group of one thousand or one million human beings anywhere on the planet there will be people who will. And if you're going to deny them the right to fight back, something you would want for yourself should you ever live under repression, you're just a big fat hypocrite.

How the hell can you deny someone the right to fight you? The will fight you if they want. What the hell do you expect, maybe we should just sit back and let it happen? You know, you come accross as some kind of politicoeconomic guru, but your arguments while appearing logical on the surface, are really unsupportable. You seem to think that all of Western Society is one big repressive pile of shit. I think you just like to argue. Play the devil's advocate because it makes seem clever. You continue to ignore the key points I make. Sometimes I think you're just a big fat pompous ass. LOL. I think I'll let some else have these "discussions" with you. So long.