Why Does Hopkins Get Criticism But Hagler Does Not?

[kingfrnk]

hopkins should not get any criticism for beating trinidad. trinidad made his name at 160 by destroying joppy which neither bhop or jermain taylor couldnt do. they may have beat him but not like tito did. now as for as oscar goes i dont know but oscar was way out his league anyway. but he was the first to ko him.

[Kev]

Well I've said many times that Hagler's achievments are a little overratted. He was a great fighter for sure but to me Bernard is certainly on his level and has achieved every bit as much.

The reason Hagler is more praised has to do with the illustrious names of his opponents and the manner of his most famous victories imo.

His fight with Hearns was a war, one of the most famous fights ever and he did spectacular jobs on other fighters, destroying Alan Minter and busting his face comes to mind.

When you demonstrate an iron chin, a willingness to slug it out and the punch power that bowls over your opponents and cuts them up then the public will love you and historians will lavish praise on you.

It's like with Rocky Marciano, hailed as one of the alltime greats his resume has no big names on it at really, at least not when they would have meant anything. But he was in some barnburners and retired undefeated thus creating a legend. Having his own punch, the Suzy Q helped.

When you think of Hagler you can picture his ring wars, just like Marciano.

When you think of Hagler you can't picture a real rumble that he had, a toe to toe slug fest with another great fighter.

In order to be considered great you have to have a dancing partner, and the likes of Jones, Hopkins, Calzaghe and Mayweather have never had one.


That's why Floyd needs to come out of retirement and fight Manny Pacquaiuo imo.

If he fights Manny it becomes a legendary superfight like Hagler Hearns, Leonard Duran etc and his all time status will jump right up as people will have a superfight and a potential memorable fight to remember him by.

[Trainer Monkey]

Hagler had one of those careers,that got much better in peoples memory after he retired.
At the time a retired Sugar Ray had more endorsement deals then Hagler did.
10 years from now people will be looking at B-hops career and marveling at it.
You may not like his style,that mixed philly crab,Bernards defense stuff,but you cant argue with the results. And an even weirder part of Bernard,is he takes guys hearts. Nobody except Jones ever looked quite right after fighting Bernard. Taylor became a plodding defensive fighter,Trinidad became a balloon,Holmes became an afterthought,so did Tarver,Johnson went from an undefeated prospect of the highest caliber,to a journeyman.
At the time,nobody liked Hagler's style either,he was neither a bully like Duran or Hearns,neither did he have 5 tons of flash like SRL,but he was somewhere in the uninspiring middle. But he was effective.

[Mr140]

Hearns it a far better win then a Tito for this reason he was able to go all the way up to cruiserweight and still win belts Tito after a good win at middle weight got owned by Hopkins, Winkey and Jones he was not even in the fight for any of these he got owned and looked a lesser fighter.

[Scrap]

Hagler never Bored me, His best days were getting there. He beat good Fighters. He would have frightened Hopkins to death, Hopkins wouldnt even stand and have it with Wright .

[BlackRazor]

Boom Boom, you make a great point & that's why I'm surprised some people didn't think Ray beat Hagler. Hagler was tough no doubt but did beating guys like Hamsho (twice), Vito, Sibson, William Lee, etc. prepare Hagler for a boxer like Ray? None of Hagler's title defenses were against a master boxer like Ray. Hearns could have boxed but chose to slug. Duran was too small. The Mugabi win was impressive but he was another slugger.

[ICB]

Boom Boom, you make a great point & that's why I'm surprised some people didn't think Ray beat Hagler. Hagler was tough no doubt but did beating guys like Hamsho (twice), Vito, Sibson, William Lee, etc. prepare Hagler for a boxer like Ray? None of Hagler's title defenses were against a master boxer like Ray. Hearns could have boxed but chose to slug. Duran was too small. The Mugabi win was impressive but he was another slugger.

Don't forget Bennie Briscoe that was another very impressive win for Marvin Hagler, Bennie Briscoe probably come the closest to stopping the great Carlos Monzon.

[kingfrnk]

Boom Boom, you make a great point & that's why I'm surprised some people didn't think Ray beat Hagler. Hagler was tough no doubt but did beating guys like Hamsho (twice), Vito, Sibson, William Lee, etc. prepare Hagler for a boxer like Ray? None of Hagler's title defenses were against a master boxer like Ray. Hearns could have boxed but chose to slug. Duran was too small. The Mugabi win was impressive but he was another slugger.

i ALWAYS thought he beat Hagler clearly at that. it should have been a UD.

[Boom Boom]

Hagler had one of those careers,that got much better in peoples memory after he retired.
At the time a retired Sugar Ray had more endorsement deals then Hagler did.
10 years from now people will be looking at B-hops career and marveling at it.
You may not like his style,that mixed philly crab,Bernards defense stuff,but you cant argue with the results. And an even weirder part of Bernard,is he takes guys hearts. Nobody except Jones ever looked quite right after fighting Bernard. Taylor became a plodding defensive fighter,Trinidad became a balloon,Holmes became an afterthought,so did Tarver,Johnson went from an undefeated prospect of the highest caliber,to a journeyman.
At the time,nobody liked Hagler's style either,he was neither a bully like Duran or Hearns,neither did he have 5 tons of flash like SRL,but he was somewhere in the uninspiring middle. But he was effective.

Definately. Haglers legacy got better as the years went on, and even the Leonard fight became more contraversial in Haglers favor in peoples minds.

As for Bernard, I think that the history books may even rank Hopkins in the to 15 fighters of all time. Bernard has said it himself, he wont be appreciated till hes gone.

[Trainer Monkey]

Hagler had one of those careers,that got much better in peoples memory after he retired.
At the time a retired Sugar Ray had more endorsement deals then Hagler did.
10 years from now people will be looking at B-hops career and marveling at it.
You may not like his style,that mixed philly crab,Bernards defense stuff,but you cant argue with the results. And an even weirder part of Bernard,is he takes guys hearts. Nobody except Jones ever looked quite right after fighting Bernard. Taylor became a plodding defensive fighter,Trinidad became a balloon,Holmes became an afterthought,so did Tarver,Johnson went from an undefeated prospect of the highest caliber,to a journeyman.
At the time,nobody liked Hagler's style either,he was neither a bully like Duran or Hearns,neither did he have 5 tons of flash like SRL,but he was somewhere in the uninspiring middle. But he was effective.

Definately. Haglers legacy got better as the years went on, and even the Leonard fight became more contraversial in Haglers favor in peoples minds.

As for Bernard, I think that the history books may even rank Hopkins in the to 15 fighters of all time. Bernard has said it himself, he wont be appreciated till hes gone.

Hopkins is a technician.
For a fan of seeing an exciting fight,it doesnt inspire much.
If your a student of the game itself,you love watching him work,but if you arent,he seems almost boring.
I mean I can see it totally,I think most more casual fans get stunned when he gets KO's,but what their missing is,he's been breaking a guy slowly round by round. And he's also getting his opponents timing and rhythm down,so he can just deliver a one shot KO like he did to DLH.
Hop just sat on that punch,he was just waiting for it.
Just like Hagler,he doesnt excite the public mind,but he does win.

[Fenster]

Hopkins being BORING hurts him. Fair enough, as Ouma says, it's the latter part of his career, but that's when his most high profile fights occured.

NONE of them are memorable/special (to a non fan). The Tito and Oscar fights (these guys don't come close on all-time great lists to Leonard/Hearns) are not really competitive. Just a dominant performance by Hopkins.

Compare that with Hagler-Hearns.. which will ALWAYS be regarded as one of the greatest/thrilling fights ever. Hagler-Leonard is legendary for the "controversy."

I think you have to take into consideration Roy Jones clearly beat Hopkins at middleweight too.