B.J. Penn v. Renzo Gracie? Why?

[BABABOOEY]

Just read that these two are fighting at the next UFC. My question is, if Renzo , from what I hear, was arguably better than Royce, how is B.J. Penn going to beat him? Will this even be a competitive fight?

Or am I thinking of the wrong Gracie?

[War]

You may be thinking of Rickson Gracie. Renzo is good, but I don't think he is good enough to handle BJ Penn anymore. BJ beat his cousin Rodrigo Gracie and one of Renzo's training partners pretty handily. It should be a good fight, but BJ Penn is the man to beat. Is this fight in the UFC or Rumble on the Rock?

[BABABOOEY]

I'm not sure. If you go to fightnews.com, it's on the front page.

[War]

It will be in K-1 in Japan. By the way, Matt Serra (Renzo Black Belt) was also beaten by BJ Penn. Easy to bills as a teacher seeking revenge for his students. I like Renzo. He's a great guy (and promoted me to Blue Belt), but BJ is tough. Renzo lost to Carlos Newton in his last MMA fight. Unless he's improved his stand-up, I don't see him beating BJ. I'll go with BJ by decision.

[PunchDrunkHighOn_?]

I've never seen a good Gracie do they still exist?

All the ones I've seen in PRIDE have been shitbags
I doubt any of them can trouble BJ Penn

[BABABOOEY]

Well if Renzo lost to Carlos Newton, he might not be that good, cuz Newton never really impressed me.

And to that last post, if you've "never seen a good Gracie", I guess you never saw Royce in his early UFC days.

[Hulk]

First off isn't this a boxing forum not UFC forum. No matter I have watched plenty of UFC including the very first ones. The first ones were my favorite, you had guys like: Ken Shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Dan "the Beast" Severan, Kimo, and the best of them all Royce Gracie. Royce Gracie was an unbelieable fighter for his size. He could submit guys twice his size. He out powered that Monster Kimo and defeated him. He also was the first to make Ken tap out.

[ClydeB]

Just read that these two are fighting at the next UFC. My question is, if Renzo , from what I hear, was arguably better than Royce, how is B.J. Penn going to beat him? Will this even be a competitive fight?

Or am I thinking of the wrong Gracie?

Renzo is not better than Royce. You're thinking of Rickson.

[PunchDrunkHighOn_?]

Well if Renzo lost to Carlos Newton, he might not be that good, cuz Newton never really impressed me.

And to that last post, if you've "never seen a good Gracie", I guess you never saw Royce in his early UFC days.

NO
I've argued with Clydey about ity before I fail to see how any Gracie past or present could hang with any of the top guns today. They'd get their face caved in standing up and be overpowered on the ground

Which Gracies has Sakarabu fought I know hes beaten 3 Gracies and hes good but Wanderlei Silva beats on him on a regular basis

[Hulk]

Bah! Royce could hange with any of the guys out there today, he'd make TITO TAP! But since I rarely get to discuss UFC or mixed martial arts fighting with many people, I feel the need to comment on the best UFC type match I have ever seen. It was between James forgot his last name, he has lots of tats, is a heavy weight, has an anchor tattoo if that helps and this guy from Visalia, CA called "the Rhino". Also James had one match in the UFC that I know of with this black HW on the under card of Ortiz vs Belfort...and he got KO'd if that helps. But any way the fight was in a smaller circuit out fit on HDNET channel. I think it was Extreme Cage Fighting or something, James was the Champ and the 230 pound beast Rhino, the challenger. James beat this man's ass from pillar to post. Big time. We are talkin with leg kicks, lots of punches to the face, Muy Thai clinches with knees, ground and pound. My god what an ass kicking, Rhino took it all too until the fight was stopped in the second 5 min round. But it was awesome, the most exciting MMA fight I have ever seen period. That good!

[War]

Hideko Yoshida (sp?), an Olympic Judo medalist, has been doing well in MMA (even though some of his fights have been rumored to be works). He fought Silva and did well...still lost. He also fought Royce and got beaten from pillar to post. Royce has been doing well although he's gone the way of Rickson only taking big money fights. Can't say I blame him. Anyway, most of the older Gracies are over 38 years old. There are some young guns on the way up and one relative, Roger Gracie, just dominated at the ADCC submission championships and is looking to go into MMA. Time will tell if they have evolved with the sport. I think they will do fine.

[PunchDrunkHighOn_?]

When I see a Gracie beat a Silva, Liddel, Couture etc.

I'll change my tune if their so good why won't they touch any of the top guys?

[WHYHELLO]

yes i agree the gracies aint shit now. renzo is gonna get killed by penn just look what he did to Gomi which is the number one ranked lightweight fighter.

[War]

The only two gracies heavy enough to fight Silva, Liddell, or Couture are Royce and Rickson. Both seem to only be taking big money single elimination bouts. Rickson hasn't fought since his son died and Royce just fought some 300+ sumo guy named Akebono. I don't think either of them will face the likes of the above anytime soon. Maybe Royce, but he'll most likely price himself out of the fight. Pride could make it happen though.

Isn't lightweight around 155 in MMA? Renzo is a 170 pound fighter. Doesn't matter though. BJ beat Matt Hughes at 185. I don't think Renzo will get killed, but I don't think he'll win. After all, BJ didn't kill Matt Serra (Renzo Black Belt), Rodrigo Gracie (Renzo Black Belt), or a purple belt of Renzo's (can't remember his name). Although he did beat all three. Renzo will most likely be decisioned. Neither BJ or Renzo will get submitted on the ground.

[RedDevil]

Heres some facts on Renzo Gracie. Some of you out there seem to get things twisted.
Renzo is a fighter at 185lbs not 170...
Renzo is no Matt Hughes, (Renzo's ground work and stand-up is better).
Rodrigo Gracie(Renzo's Cousin) lost to BJ Penn on a decision not like Matt Hughes did(Hughes got tapped).
Renzo will do much better against Penn, Penn never fought the caliber of fighter Renzo Gracie is...
Penn will have a nightmare on his hands...
Royce is 170lbs and Rickson is about 185lbs, non of which can be in the same division in Pride as Wanderlei Silva...

Peace'
- Arthur "Red Devil" Renzo Gracie Jiu Jitsu NYC.