Kirkland perhaps you would care to explain...

[Mikkel_K]

Is going to help create jobs and "stimulate" the economy

Do you figure that maybe (just maybe), the, say, Department of Homeland Security headquarters isn't going to construct itself out of the blue, but that some actual human beings might have to get involved in construction? You know, with jobs and stuff?

Now whether or not these priorities are wise, I have no clue. But to say that it won't create any jobs would be silly.

[El Kabong]

So Trainer, Von, Mikkel....you do not see any of that as pork?

[El Kabong]

$1 billion for Amtrak, which hasn’t earned a profit in four decades.

$2 billion to help subsidize child care.

$400 million for research into global warming.

$2.4 billion for projects to demonstrate how carbon greenhouse gas can be safely removed from the atmosphere.

$650 million for coupons to help consumers convert their TV sets from analog to digital, part of the digital TV conversion.

$600 million to buy a new fleet of cars for federal employees and government departments.

$75 million to fund programs to help people quit smoking.

$21 million to re-sod the National Mall, which suffered heavy use during the Inauguration.

$2.25 billion for national parks. This item has sparked calls for an investigation, because the chief lobbyist of the National Parks Association is the son of Rep. David R. Obey, D-Wisc. The $2,25 billion is about equal to the National Park Service’s entire annual budget. The Washington Times reports it is a threefold increase over what was originally proposed for parks in the stimulus bill. Obey is chairman of the House Appropriations Committee.

$335 million for treatment and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases.

$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts. $4.19 billion to stave off foreclosures via the Neighborhood Stabilization Program. The bill allows nonprofits to compete with cities and states for $3.44 billion of the money, which means a substantial amount of it will be captured by ACORN, the controversial activist group currently under federal investigation for vote fraud. Another $750 million would be exclusively reserved for nonprofits such as ACORN – meaning cities and states are barred from receiving that money. Sen. David Vitter, R-La., charges the money could appear to be a “payoff” for the partisan political activities community groups in the last election cycle.

$44 million to renovate the headquarters building of the Agriculture Department.

$32 billion for a “smart electricity grid to minimize waste.

$87 billion of Medicaid funds, to aid states.

$53.4 billion for science facilities, high speed Internet, and miscellaneous energy and environmental programs.

$13 billion to repair and weatherize public housing, help the homeless, repair foreclosed homes.

$20 billion for quicker depreciation and write-offs for equipment.

$10.3 billion for tax credits to help families defray the cost of college tuition.

$20 billion over five years for an expanded food stamp program.

.....I don't think they can just throw money at the problem and expect it to go away especially when this bill doesn't come close to touching the toxic assets the banks still hold.

[JT Rock]

I personally would only like about 3 million for me... Thats certainly a hell of a lot cheaper than some of the shit on his list

[Kirkland Laing]

$1 billion for Amtrak, which hasn’t earned a profit in four decades.

$2 billion to help subsidize child care.

$400 million for research into global warming.

$2.4 billion for projects to demonstrate how carbon greenhouse gas can be safely removed from the atmosphere.

$650 million for coupons to help consumers convert their TV sets from analog to digital, part of the digital TV conversion.

$600 million to buy a new fleet of cars for federal employees and government departments.

$75 million to fund programs to help people quit smoking.

$21 million to re-sod the National Mall, which suffered heavy use during the Inauguration.

$2.25 billion for national parks. This item has sparked calls for an investigation, because the chief lobbyist of the National Parks Association is the son of Rep. David R. Obey, D-Wisc. The $2,25 billion is about equal to the National Park Service’s entire annual budget. The Washington Times reports it is a threefold increase over what was originally proposed for parks in the stimulus bill. Obey is chairman of the House Appropriations Committee.

$335 million for treatment and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases.

$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts. $4.19 billion to stave off foreclosures via the Neighborhood Stabilization Program. The bill allows nonprofits to compete with cities and states for $3.44 billion of the money, which means a substantial amount of it will be captured by ACORN, the controversial activist group currently under federal investigation for vote fraud. Another $750 million would be exclusively reserved for nonprofits such as ACORN – meaning cities and states are barred from receiving that money. Sen. David Vitter, R-La., charges the money could appear to be a “payoff” for the partisan political activities community groups in the last election cycle.

$44 million to renovate the headquarters building of the Agriculture Department.

$32 billion for a “smart electricity grid to minimize waste.

$87 billion of Medicaid funds, to aid states.

$53.4 billion for science facilities, high speed Internet, and miscellaneous energy and environmental programs.

$13 billion to repair and weatherize public housing, help the homeless, repair foreclosed homes.

$20 billion for quicker depreciation and write-offs for equipment.

$10.3 billion for tax credits to help families defray the cost of college tuition.

$20 billion over five years for an expanded food stamp program.

.....I don't think they can just throw money at the problem and expect it to go away especially when this bill doesn't come close to touching the toxic assets the banks still hold.

All these things create jobs. They put money into people's pockets, who then spend the money on goods and services. The people who supply the goods and services then spend/invest the money and it continues on. The good old Keynesian "multiplier". We 're back to using keynesian economics because monetary policy, the preferred government method of stimulating/slowing the economy of the past thirty years, no longer works anymore due to the collapse of the financial system. It'd be great if we could just fuck around with the interest rate (monetary policy) and fix this but due to the system being so fucked that even zero interest rates (currently) are having zero effect the only policy option left to stimulate the economy is for the government to spend money. Which they're doing.

Take food stamps. Food stamps actually supply the biggest bang for a buck that you can buy with your stimulus dollars, because they're spent immediately by the recipient, pumping the money straight into the economy. Here's a table that shows the most effective ways of spending stimulus money :




So you can see almost all of the things on your list have a positive effect after they're initially spent, apart from all the things the GOP are trying to force onto the stimulus bill like various types of tax cuts.


What Obama is doing wrong however is the bank bailout thing. He's just extending and massively increasing the corporate socialist Bush response to the current crisis. It looks like he's as bought and paid for by Wall Street as Bush was. I'll have more to say about the bailout side of things (which will total trillions eventually, far in excess of the piddling $850 billion stimulus bill) when they announce it officially.

So in a nutshell : the stimulus bill is a separate thing from the bank bailout programs. It's being spent to arrest the plunge of the American economy into deflation and depression, which is where it's headed if no stimulus happens. These things may still happen but the stimulus bill is an attempt to prevent them.

[Kirkland Laing]

Please ask questions about economic stuff you don't follow and they will be answered. Infallibly.

[El Kabong]

"Unfortunately in this world there is no tooth fairy. And the government doesn’t create anything; it just redistributes. Whenever the government bails someone out of trouble, they always put someone into trouble, plus of course a toll for the troll. Every $100 billion in bailout requires at least $130 billion in taxes, where the $30 billion extra is the cost of getting government involved." - Arthur Laffer


All food stamps do is addict people to that entitlement program....in the real world, the one where I live and everyone else besides you live this magic money doesn't appear out of thin air it's taken from people who WORK for a living that doesn't help the economy

[Trainer Monkey]

"Unfortunately in this world there is no tooth fairy. And the government doesn’t create anything; it just redistributes. Whenever the government bails someone out of trouble, they always put someone into trouble, plus of course a toll for the troll. Every $100 billion in bailout requires at least $130 billion in taxes, where the $30 billion extra is the cost of getting government involved." - Arthur Laffer


All food stamps do is addict people to that entitlement program....in the real world, the one where I live and everyone else besides you live this magic money doesn't appear out of thin air it's taken from people who WORK for a living that doesn't help the economy

Laffer,the man who wrote the thrice failed theory of supply side economics on the back of a cocktail napkin at a party
Good source

[killersheep]

"Unfortunately in this world there is no tooth fairy. And the government doesn’t create anything; it just redistributes. Whenever the government bails someone out of trouble, they always put someone into trouble, plus of course a toll for the troll. Every $100 billion in bailout requires at least $130 billion in taxes, where the $30 billion extra is the cost of getting government involved." - Arthur Laffer


All food stamps do is addict people to that entitlement program....in the real world, the one where I live and everyone else besides you live this magic money doesn't appear out of thin air it's taken from people who WORK for a living that doesn't help the economy

On August 28, 2006, Art Laffer appeared on Kudlow & Company[4] to debate Peter Schiff, president of Euro Pacific Capital. Laffer made a bet with Schiff that there wouldn't be a recession, and that the housing bubble wouldn't bust in the next year or two. Both agreed to put their credibility on the line and the winner would receive a penny.
Laffer appeared almost two years after that interview, on "Real Time with Bill Maher", on October 24, 2008. Maher asked him, "Have you paid off that bet?" Laffer replied that he had not.

Arthur Laffer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry about the cut and paste........................

[Kirkland Laing]

"Unfortunately in this world there is no tooth fairy. And the government doesn’t create anything; it just redistributes. Whenever the government bails someone out of trouble, they always put someone into trouble, plus of course a toll for the troll. Every $100 billion in bailout requires at least $130 billion in taxes, where the $30 billion extra is the cost of getting government involved." - Arthur Laffer


All food stamps do is addict people to that entitlement program....in the real world, the one where I live and everyone else besides you live this magic money doesn't appear out of thin air it's taken from people who WORK for a living that doesn't help the economy

I don't understand why posting a quote from a guy now regarded as a discredited joke answers my post. I know it hurts when you see money handed to black people Lyle but it's actually the best way you can spend stimulus money, as proven by economist who've been proved consistently correct over generations. You'd better hope it works too otherwise things look very grim indeed for anybody starting out in the world.

[boozeboxer]

So Trainer, Von, Mikkel....you do not see any of that as pork?

I never understood what was ever wrong with pork. BOth sides use it and I think it is just a way to allocate money.

Most of that stimulus appears awesome. COnstruction jobs, public transportation, environmental concerns, education, infrastructure.........

Although I agree that the wallstreet boys should have more accountability....and this doesn't solve that. But baby steps Lyle.......your boy has us so fucked that it can't be fixed all at once.

[Trainer Monkey]

If they fix a park,they have to pay someone to do it.
Jobs,and income put back in to the economy,plus an improved park system for the public to enjoy.
Im outraged,this might actually be stimulus to the economy