Jermain Taylor v. Allan Green

[CFH]

what is the justification of not fighting Froch? Froch is the champion not Taylor and I think hes forgetting that. Why cant they just fight I really dont understand

There is a difference between being a champion and being a belt holder. Froch won that belt by default. Dam he still hasnt even fought a top ten guy. He did not beat a champ. He doesnt deserve it.

I couldn't agree more. Even Allan Green is better than anyone Froch has fought. Hell, he might even be better than Froch (I don't actually think he is, but Froch certainly hasn't proven otherwise).

[Tam Seddon]

what is the justification of not fighting Froch? Froch is the champion not Taylor and I think hes forgetting that. Why cant they just fight I really dont understand

There is a difference between being a champion and being a belt holder. Froch won that belt by default. Dam he still hasnt even fought a top ten guy. He did not beat a champ. He doesnt deserve it.

I couldn't agree more. Even Allan Green is better than anyone Froch has fought. Hell, he might even be better than Froch (I don't actually think he is, but Froch certainly hasn't proven otherwise).

well its hard for carl to fight top 10 fighters when they keep on being pussies and not wanting to fight him. Pascal IMO was in the top 10 at 168, carl did the business on him and he wants the big names. They dont want him though

[Rantcatrat]

There is a difference between being a champion and being a belt holder. Froch won that belt by default. Dam he still hasnt even fought a top ten guy. He did not beat a champ. He doesnt deserve it.

I couldn't agree more. Even Allan Green is better than anyone Froch has fought. Hell, he might even be better than Froch (I don't actually think he is, but Froch certainly hasn't proven otherwise).

well its hard for carl to fight top 10 fighters when they keep on being pussies and not wanting to fight him. Pascal IMO was in the top 10 at 168, carl did the business on him and he wants the big names. They dont want him though

Tom, I respect that you are a fan of Froch's, but if he really wanted to fight top ten fighters - he would fight top ten fighters for less money and in unfriendly environments, like the US or Canada. Has he ever even fought outside of Nottingham? Let alone the UK? Has he ever accepted the raw end of the stick to get a bigger fight?

For a good example, look to Timothy Bradley. No one outside of California had even heard of Tim Bradley. What did Tim Bradley do? He flew to London to fight a top five junior welter weight (Junior Witter) for low pay. Now he is a top contender who everyone is forced to pay attention to at junior welterweight.

With that being said, it looks like the Taylor fight is happening after all, and Froch is actually taking the lower pay and unfriendly environment:

Sky Sports | Boxing | News | Froch close to Taylor bout

Good move Froch. Win or lose, he gains a ton in notoriety.

I may have to eat my words

[Fenster]

I couldn't agree more. Even Allan Green is better than anyone Froch has fought. Hell, he might even be better than Froch (I don't actually think he is, but Froch certainly hasn't proven otherwise).

well its hard for carl to fight top 10 fighters when they keep on being pussies and not wanting to fight him. Pascal IMO was in the top 10 at 168, carl did the business on him and he wants the big names. They dont want him though

Tom, I respect that you are a fan of Froch's, but if he really wanted to fight top ten fighters - he would fight top ten fighters for less money and in unfriendly environments, like the US or Canada. Has he ever even fought outside of Nottingham? Let alone the UK? Has he ever accepted the raw end of the stick to get a bigger fight?

For a good example, look to Timothy Bradley. No one outside of California had even heard of Tim Bradley. What did Tim Bradley do? He flew to London to fight a top five junior welter weight (Junior Witter) for low pay. Now he is a top contender who everyone is forced to pay attention to at junior welterweight.

With that being said, it looks like the Taylor fight is happening after all, and Froch is actually taking the lower pay and unfriendly environment:

Sky Sports | Boxing | News | Froch close to Taylor bout

Good move Froch. Win or lose, he gains a ton in notoriety.

I may have to eat my words

Froch has fought in America before.

Tim Bradley was the number one contender to Witter's WBC title. It's understandable he travelled.

Carl Froch is the champion, Taylor the challenger, yet Froch is still willing to travel to make the fight.

Taylor has never fought outside the states. He would rather NOT fight the champion than travel.

Froch's crime is clearly being a NON American based fighter.

[Rantcatrat]

well its hard for carl to fight top 10 fighters when they keep on being pussies and not wanting to fight him. Pascal IMO was in the top 10 at 168, carl did the business on him and he wants the big names. They dont want him though

Tom, I respect that you are a fan of Froch's, but if he really wanted to fight top ten fighters - he would fight top ten fighters for less money and in unfriendly environments, like the US or Canada. Has he ever even fought outside of Nottingham? Let alone the UK? Has he ever accepted the raw end of the stick to get a bigger fight?

For a good example, look to Timothy Bradley. No one outside of California had even heard of Tim Bradley. What did Tim Bradley do? He flew to London to fight a top five junior welter weight (Junior Witter) for low pay. Now he is a top contender who everyone is forced to pay attention to at junior welterweight.

With that being said, it looks like the Taylor fight is happening after all, and Froch is actually taking the lower pay and unfriendly environment:

Sky Sports | Boxing | News | Froch close to Taylor bout

Good move Froch. Win or lose, he gains a ton in notoriety.

I may have to eat my words

Froch has fought in America before.

Tim Bradley was the number one contender to Witter's WBC title. It's understandable he travelled.

Carl Froch is the champion, Taylor the challenger, yet Froch is still willing to travel to make the fight.

Taylor has never fought outside the states. He would rather NOT fight the champion than travel.

Froch's crime is clearly being a NON American based fighter.

We can agree to disagree.

Basically, it comes down to name recognition and notoriety versus having a belt (which I may add, was not taken from a champion, but won after it was vacated). You feel the belt should compel fighters to travel to you; I feel name recognition and notoriety are more important (At least given that the belt was just recently won and it was a belt vacated, not taken from a champion).

Take the current Calzaghe situation. Presently, he has people lined up to travel to Wales (Chad Dawson, Glen Johnson, and Bernard Hopkins have offered to travel there), let alone the UK, to fight him after he thoroughly dominated Roy Jones and beat Bernard Hopkins in the US. Because he has name recognition. Speaking of Calzaghe, why hasn't he fought Froch? Because even with a belt who the Froch is Froch?

However, my point wasn't Froch's need to travel outside the UK. Winning in fights outside your home country may be overrated. Froch can fight in the UK, without any criticism, as long as he has the draw and the leverage to compel big-names and worthy challengers to travel to the UK to fight him. More power to him if he can be a champion and compel everyone to come to him.

Would I expect him to travel to the US for an Allan Green or an Andre Ward fight? No way. Like you said he has the belt. But, in terms of notoriety, Jermain Taylor ain't no Allan Green or Andre Ward.

I don't think Froch's status as a NON american is the reason he has to travel. It is a lack of name recognition.

[Fenster]

Tom, I respect that you are a fan of Froch's, but if he really wanted to fight top ten fighters - he would fight top ten fighters for less money and in unfriendly environments, like the US or Canada. Has he ever even fought outside of Nottingham? Let alone the UK? Has he ever accepted the raw end of the stick to get a bigger fight?

For a good example, look to Timothy Bradley. No one outside of California had even heard of Tim Bradley. What did Tim Bradley do? He flew to London to fight a top five junior welter weight (Junior Witter) for low pay. Now he is a top contender who everyone is forced to pay attention to at junior welterweight.

With that being said, it looks like the Taylor fight is happening after all, and Froch is actually taking the lower pay and unfriendly environment:

Sky Sports | Boxing | News | Froch close to Taylor bout

Good move Froch. Win or lose, he gains a ton in notoriety.

I may have to eat my words

Froch has fought in America before.

Tim Bradley was the number one contender to Witter's WBC title. It's understandable he travelled.

Carl Froch is the champion, Taylor the challenger, yet Froch is still willing to travel to make the fight.

Taylor has never fought outside the states. He would rather NOT fight the champion than travel.

Froch's crime is clearly being a NON American based fighter.

We can agree to disagree.

Basically, it comes down to name recognition and notoriety versus having a belt (which I may add, was not taken from a champion, but won after it was vacated). You feel the belt should compel fighters to travel to you; I feel name recognition and notoriety are more important (At least given that the belt was just recently won and it was a belt vacated, not taken from a champion).

Take the current Calzaghe situation. Presently, he has people lined up to travel to Wales (Chad Dawson, Glen Johnson, and Bernard Hopkins have offered to travel there), let alone the UK, to fight him after he thoroughly dominated Roy Jones and beat Bernard Hopkins in the US. Because he has name recognition. Speaking of Calzaghe, why hasn't he fought Froch? Because even with a belt who the Froch is Froch?

However, my point wasn't Froch's need to travel outside the UK. Winning in fights outside your home country may be overrated. Froch can fight in the UK, without any criticism, as long as he has the draw and the leverage to compel big-names and worthy challengers to travel to the UK to fight him. More power to him if he can be a champion and compel everyone to come to him.

Would I expect him to travel to the US for an Allan Green or an Andre Ward fight? No way. Like you said he has the belt. But, in terms of notoriety, Jermain Taylor ain't no Allan Green or Andre Ward.

I don't think Froch's status as a NON american is the reason he has to travel. It is a lack of name recognition.

You never said that earlier -

Froch should travel to the US to fight the Allan Green's/Andre Ward's of the 68' division for less money and build his franchise.

I never said Froch shouldn't travel because he's champion. But give me some examples of the champion travelling to the challengers backyard?

Taylor is the bigger name. That's why he will get a significantly bigger purse. The problem is he REFUSES to travel whatever the circumstances. It takes two to tango.

Looks like it's happening now anyway

[Rantcatrat]

Froch has fought in America before.

Tim Bradley was the number one contender to Witter's WBC title. It's understandable he travelled.

Carl Froch is the champion, Taylor the challenger, yet Froch is still willing to travel to make the fight.

Taylor has never fought outside the states. He would rather NOT fight the champion than travel.

Froch's crime is clearly being a NON American based fighter.

We can agree to disagree.

Basically, it comes down to name recognition and notoriety versus having a belt (which I may add, was not taken from a champion, but won after it was vacated). You feel the belt should compel fighters to travel to you; I feel name recognition and notoriety are more important (At least given that the belt was just recently won and it was a belt vacated, not taken from a champion).

Take the current Calzaghe situation. Presently, he has people lined up to travel to Wales (Chad Dawson, Glen Johnson, and Bernard Hopkins have offered to travel there), let alone the UK, to fight him after he thoroughly dominated Roy Jones and beat Bernard Hopkins in the US. Because he has name recognition. Speaking of Calzaghe, why hasn't he fought Froch? Because even with a belt who the Froch is Froch?

However, my point wasn't Froch's need to travel outside the UK. Winning in fights outside your home country may be overrated. Froch can fight in the UK, without any criticism, as long as he has the draw and the leverage to compel big-names and worthy challengers to travel to the UK to fight him. More power to him if he can be a champion and compel everyone to come to him.

Would I expect him to travel to the US for an Allan Green or an Andre Ward fight? No way. Like you said he has the belt. But, in terms of notoriety, Jermain Taylor ain't no Allan Green or Andre Ward.

I don't think Froch's status as a NON american is the reason he has to travel. It is a lack of name recognition.

You never said that earlier -

Froch should travel to the US to fight the Allan Green's/Andre Ward's of the 68' division for less money and build his franchise.

I never said Froch shouldn't travel because he's champion. But give me some examples of the champion travelling to the challengers backyard?

Taylor is the bigger name. That's why he will get a significantly bigger purse. The problem is he REFUSES to travel whatever the circumstances. It takes two to tango.

Looks like it's happening now anyway

But I was coming from different angles. The second angle was, should Froch be compelled to have to travel to the US to fight the Green's of the division? No way. With a belt he has the leverage.

The first angle was if I was Froch and wanted the name recognition, what I would do for my career.

My point was that, if I were Froch and I wanted to increase name recognition, I'd suck it up and go to the states and fight whomever so people would recognize me as the man at 68'. After winning a couple of tough fights, I'd fly back to Nottingham and let people come to me because I'd have the leverage.

Why the Froch defense anyway?