Pound for pound list

[JimC]

Ok guys, now that you're used to this format and I hope you'll all remember to make a trip here every once in a while to check out the topics and add your opinions because I will be running a lot of these and they will be going out on the news main page after perhaps two days before they are collcted and broadcast to the world.

This time i'm simply going to ask the question, wait for your responses and add a paragraph or two to the main page when you've contributed.

We want to know what your top ten pound for pound list looks like with a short 3-4 sentence explanation for each fighter.

Go for it guys!

[taansend]

Firstly, we know that P4P is subjective. Do you reward someone on achievement or potential or a balance of both? Do you go for punch power or skill, longevity or last fight. Most of all, do you like they way they carry themselves? I think that all of this is relevant. Only one of my fighters has lost in his last three fights (a close decision) and that was revenged with a devastating 2nd round KO next time out. Here’s my P4P Top Ten and it’s correct (as far as I’m concerned).

1 - Bernard Hopkins
19 defenses of the Middleweight title, first fighter to hold all four major belts, only 1 loss in the last 16 years - and that was to a speedy Roy Jones, Champ for almost 10 years, only man to KO De La Hoya, only man to beat (and KO) Tito and he still looks great in his 40th year.

2 - Floyd Mayweather
Undefeated in 32 fights, 13 of them ‘world’ title fights. Hardly ever loses a round. Can box, punch, move, dance, stay in the pocket, make the other guy miss then counter with pin point accuracy. Look at how many of his opponents have done well since losing to Pretty Boy and then look at how easily he beat them.

3 - Eric Morales
First won the title just days after his 21st birthday against the great Daniel Zaragoza. Beaten every man he’s faced. Destroyed Junior Jones and Kevin Kelly, and has beaten McCulloch, Barrera, Chi, Ayala, Espadas, Chavez and Hernandez - all of them ‘world’ champs. Won titles in three weights.

4 - Manny Pacquiao
Unbeaten in over five years (weight contributed towards last loss), won titles in three weights, KO’d Julio, Lucero and Barrera. Controversial draw with Marquez. Arguably, the most exciting fighter around.

5 - Juan Manuel Márquez
Many thought he won against Pac-Man, many thought he lost. Even without that fight has only lost once in the last 11 years (to the very able Freddy Norwood - on points). In the last two years has KO’d Peden (top contender), Medina (went on to beat Harrison) and Gainer (run Forrest run).

6 - Veeraphol Sahaprom
Bantamweight Champ for six years. Only one loss in 48 fights and that was to Nana Konadu - an excellent African fighter. Made around 14 defenses. Only fights at home, but so did Roy Jones.

7 - Rafael Marquez
Burst onto the scene with two wins over Mark Johnson, the 2nd one by KO - and Johnson hadn’t lost in 11 year and was considered P4P by many. Brutally KO’d an undefeated Tim Austin and is up there with Pacquiao as most exciting champ around.

8 - Diego Corrales
Has rebounded well after loss to Mayweather and personal problems. Can punch or box and lost only twice in 41 fights. Avenged cut loss to Casamayor, now looking to unify Lightweight division before seeking rematch against Mayweather.

9 - Antonio Tarver
Has beaten most of the top fighters in a weak Light Heavy division. Avenged a close points loss by destroying RJJ but needs to fights more often. 36 next month so not many fights left.

10 - Winky Wright
Should be ranked higher but has lost all momentum of Mosley loss. Easily beat Shane but Sugar hasn’t chalked up a convincing win in 40 months. Old school skills, a rematch with Mosley looms, if he can get past that should look for Hopkins. Needs to be more loyal to his staff.


Anyone wondering why Trinidad isn't on my list, he will be if he wins another fight. One fight in three years ain't enough for me.

[ClydeB]

1. Erik Morales

Wins over Junior Jones, Barrera, a prime Ayala, Chi and Hernandez all proved, at one time or another, that Morales is the best out there, in my opinion. On top of his undoubted boxing skills, he has a chin to match the likes of Wayne McCullough, and he can mix it up if the occasion calls for it.

2. Bernard Hopkins

Not just wins over two of the best boxers of the modern era, in Trinidad and De La Hoya, but KO wins combined with his remarkable consistency make him number 1 with the majority. He's just eged out by Morales in my list, though.

3. Floyd Mayweather

Has such variety in his game that the number 1 spot is virtually guaranteed at some point. With the Light Welter division heating up like no other, a career defining fight is on the cards in the near future.

4. Winky Wright

You can argue all you like about Mosley and how he hasn't been the same for a while, but this should not take away from Wright, who utterly destroyed Mosley in a very one-sided fight. He also got a raw deal against Vargas, in my opinion. On paper, he perhaps shouldn't be so high on the list; however, things are not always clear cut in boxing. The man simply oozes class.

5. Juan Manuel Marquez

In my opinion, he won the fight against Pac. Had he won without having suffered that nightmare first round, it would have been a wonderful scalp to hang from his belt. The fact that he clawed his way back after the aforementioned first round makes his performance that much more remarkable. His performance against Medina is further evidence that this man belongs in any top 10. Add to that his enviable record and I had to put him in my top 5.

[ClydeB]

6. Manny Pacqiuao

Edged out by Marquez due to the boxing lesson he endured post 1st round. Win over Barrera cemented his reputation as a very dangerous, hard hitting and, up until that point, underrated fighter. His record is marred only by two losses earlier in his career to fighters not fit to lace his boots. Also, he is one of the most energetic fighters out there, maintaining a pace most opponents simply can't handle.

7. Felix Trinidad

His lack of ring activity should not take away from his undoubted ability. He was, at the very least, top 5 before his 'retirement', and his fight against Mayorga proved that he had lost none of the old magic. Thus, he has to be in the top 10.

8. Rafael Marquez

Explosive fighter dominating a lacklustre division. That is not his fault; therefore, he should not be overlooked. He has destroyed any real contenders in his division. Destined to move up and on to greater things.

9. Diego Corrales

Fantasic year for 'chico' as he first defeated the world class Casamyor and then pummelled the undefeated Freitas into submission. A candidate for fighter of the year.

10. Marco Antoni Barrera

Just as Roy Jones loss to Tarver didn't immediately knock him out of the top 10, Barrera should not be dimissed on the basis of one off night. He bounced back to stop Paulie Ayala. Although Ayala is definetely on the slide, he is far from a mug and Barrera was the first man to stop him. Barrera's other achievements are common knowledge.

[JimC]

Absolutely Taansend, it would also be of interest to know how everyone arrives at their pound for pound conclusions.

[SimonH]

1: Bernard Hopkins; The best Middleweight in the world since 1994. World Champ since victory over Trinidad; and with the win over DLH establishes himself in the top 10 Middleweights of all time.

2: Erik Morales; Amazing numbers, who seems to be at the peak of his powers. Has an uncanny knack of rebounding from perceived poor performances with a superb one, as the teat tough Hernandez recently found out.

3: Floyd Mayweather; The most talented individual in boxing at the moment. And now he is a 140lber, he has the opposition to show he can top this list in due course.

4: Ronald Wright; Never liked him, always underrated him, but finally clocked on to what a superb fighter he was, after the masterful job he did on Mosley.

5: Antonio Tarver; unfortunately because he turned pro late, we perhaps will never find out how good he could have been. But the two performances against RJJ, showed glimpses of what great skills he processes.

6: Kostya Tszyu; A world class fighter for over a decade; has proven time again he is the #1 fighter in one boxings best divisions. But with the Cottos, Hatton’s and Mayweathers snapping at his heels, time will tell if he still has it, and that’s only if he manages to beat Mitchell again! What a division.

7: Oscar de la Hoya; Perhaps we will never see him in a ring again, but while he still has not officially retired, the great man deserves a place on this list.

8: Manny Pacquiao; although I believe Marquez is probably better. Pacquiaos resume is far more impressive, so he gets the slot on the list.

9: Cory Spinks; Just continues to improve with every fight. Does not have anything great, but has no big weaknesses.

10: James Toney; although I believe he will get blown away when if he faces any of the so called ‘Super’ Heavyweights around today. Pound for pound he still deserves a place on this list. Has been world class since 1991, and has met in that time virtually everyone that matters. And victories over Holyfield and Jirov, show Toney can still put the lights out on decent opposition.

[taansend]

Absolutely Taansend, it would also be of interest to know how everyone arrives at their pound for pound conclusions.

I put 20 names in a bag and the cat picked them out.

[miron_lang]

#1 Bernard Hopkins - KO wins over DLH and Trinidad cemented his claim as the best Middleweight of his time. Victories over respected champions Keith Holmes and william Joppy makes his resume a lot more impressive.

#2 Floyd Mayweather - Performances againts Corrales and Ndou deserves the # 1 spot but his failure to dominate jose luis castillo gave Hopkins that spot. Soon to be No. 1 if he hurdles any of the ff. Harris, Tzyu, Mitchell and Hatton.

# 3 Erik Morales - Jr Jones, Barrera, Ayala, C. Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, In jin Chi, McCullogh. BIG names and Morales slew them. Victories over PACMAN below or Corrales above defending on performances of #1 and #2 might give morales a chance at the top.

# 4 Emmauel Pacquiao - Easily the Hardest hitter in his weight class plus a blinding speed that seems also unrivaled @ his division. Looks one dimensional againt his 'Victory' againts Marquez. but didnt anybody remember his 2 previous performances againts Barrera & lucero ??

# 5 Juan Manuel Marquez - His classic 'rise from the dead performance' againts PACMAN catapults him to this position. Notable victim : Speedy Gainer and former Champ Manuel Medina.

#6 Winky Wright - Convincing victory over Mosley is enough to land this spot. Also good performance againts vargas that many felt he won

#7 Cory Spinks - Beats mayorga who beat Forrest twice who beat Mosley twice who beat dela Hoya twice who beat Julio Cesar Chavez twice!!

#8 Diego Corrales - Impressive againts the previously undefeated Freitas. he can go up a few spots with a victory againts an Erik Morales or Jose Luis Castillo.

#9 Rafael Marquez - Exactly the opposite of His Brother. Rafael goes for the Kill and initiate exchanges. Notable performances are againts Austin and Johnson.

#10 Jose Luis Castillo - His performance againts Juan Lazcano is pretty hard to ignore. plus his first fight with mayweather attracted many Floyd unbeliever to make an issue out it.

[gunjack21]

1.bernard hopkins- undisputed king of middleweights. this guy is absolutely the best fighter right now. he beat two of the best pound for pond in dela hoya and tito trinidad... his only loss came in the hands of great roy jones.

2.floyd mayweather- they say he has not face enough competition in his division but who can blame him the guy is an elite fighter nobody in his division came close in beating him so he deserves to be #2.

3. eric morales- definitely a good all aroubd fighter a champion in 122,126 and now at 130 he is almost unstoppable right now... a fight with pac or mayweather is definitely a mouth-watering....

4. manny pacquiao- undisputedly the hardest hitting in his division pacman is definitely an exciting fighter and a prospect to be the next #1 pound for pound...a natural bantamweight he is a former flyweight and bantamweight champion. now he is considered as people's featherweight champion because fight fans love his no fear attitude.

5. winky wright- he was never seriously regarded as a good champion but he proved them wrong he beat mosley convincingly. with this big win he deserves to be in this list.

6.cory spinks- the next big thing in this profession.. he is definitely proving his worth... he will definitely stay here in the list for a long period.

7.diego corrales- a power puncher and has a good reach advantage diego will be another force to reckon in his division. he beat the unbeaten prospect in acelio freitas.

8.juan manuel marquez- a counter- punching technician he was impressive when he resurrected after suffering 3 knock downs in round 1 against pacman this guy is one tough fighter.. but his fight against salido was forgettable...

9.rafael marquez- another hard hitting puncher this guy is totally impressive he will remain here in the list for a long time.. a truly exciting fighter.

10. james toney - a fat man but definitely a good boxer . with the current heavyweights right now . i will not be surprised if he sweeps this division....

[Greig]

1) Floyd Mayweather Jr - Quite simply, the best there is. Don't know how he'll fare at 140, but prior to that, was the most complete fighter in the game. Try to muscle him, he'll outslick you. Try to outslick him and he'll muscle you.

2)Erik Morales - Great chin, great heart, great tools, great fights = great fighter.

3) Juan Manuel Marquez - Only recently achieved long overdue recognition, but has quietly beat up on every decent featherweight (who would fight him)in the world for the last 7 years.

4) Great performances against Casamayor (both fights) and Frietas have confirmed that he is the real deal. Now that he has put his personal troubles behind him, would love to see a rematch at 140 with Floyd.

5) Oscar De La Hoya - The beautiful thing about pound for pound lists is that weight doesn't matter - and weight is precisely the reason he lost to Hopkins. If Hopkins was a natural 147 pounder, I don't think he could live with DLH's hand and foot speed, or power at that weight.

6) Felix Trinidad - Blistering display against Mayorga confirmed one thing : Tito is back. Devastating combinations, awesome hand speed, and great heart make Felix one of the best in the business. Would be much better suited at 154. No one could live with him there.

7) Pac-Man - Manny's display in that first round against Marquez showed how awesome a puncher he is, evenly though he was clearly outfought for the rest of the fight. The destruction of Barrera was masterly.

Kostya Tszyu - He's in here more on reputation than anything else at the moment. After November 6 it could be a different story. But, the facts remain - Tszyu has beaten every decent 140 pound fighter in the last 7 years.

9) Bernard Hopkins - A freak of nature who gets better with age and has ruled the middleweights for a decade. Would be rated higher if a) the middleweights of the last 10 years not been so god-awful and b) his most notable wins were against smaller guys moving up. Hopkins could have guaranteed his legacy by moving up and fighting the Benn's, Jones (again) and Calzaghes..... But he never did.

10) Miguel Cotto - Premature I know. But this kid is boxings future, and I think, at this moment in time, he's beat any Junior Welterweight on the planet, aside from Tszyu. Again, my perception of Tszyu may be changed drastically after his next fight.

[JimC]

Excellent stuff guys, great response to this piece, keep it coming and don't forget to check back as there will be more where this came from.

In fact, if anyone has any suggestions for a topic they'd like to debate please feel free to post it here and i'll add a paragraph or so to it as an introduction before it goes online with all your opinions.

[JimC]

Ok guys, great stuff here, this is going to the front page now so i'm sorry if anyone was in the middle of their thing and missed but these things are going to be happening several at a time so keep checking back here and see what's happening, all suggestions are welcome as usual.

Keep them coming.

[metpt176]

#1 = Bernard Hopkins: He's been on top for 10 years now in his division...that's why. He totally fucked up Trinidad & KO'd Oscar with a body shot. Hopkins. Always Hopkins, even if he get's defeated soon...he will have had all of the belts & time on his side.

#2 = Floyd Mayweather: Mayweather always puts on a good show & he is still undefeated. I think Floyd is going to stay the king of his hill for many years to come.

#3 = Erik Morales: As much as I have talked about Morales & as much excitement as Morales brings...that's an easy call...ranking him below Mayweather was hard for me...but...Mayweather is the man.

#4 = Miguel Cotto: Awesome...I like him as much as I do Morales...but he is just coming up.

#5 = Howard Eastman & Calzaghe: Two in the same spot? Not enough press or fights in the U.S. for me to decide on who I think should be tops in this spot. They are both great fighters that I would love to see step up.

#6 = Winky Wright: In his weight...he's tops. He should have tried for a Tito fight though.

#7 = Tito Trinidad: If Tito looks as good against everyone as he did against Mayorga...Tito will move up the list & fast!

#8 = Oscar de La Hoya: Even though he has lost to Hopkins & Mosley...Oscar is still good for the sport & I think that he is the best in his proper division which is several drops down. Take your lumps, swallow your pride, & move back down.

#9 = Manny Pacquiao: Fiery & exciting. Good for the sport if he can back up what he is pressing. JMM might be able to beat him next go around.

#10 = Diego Corrales: He's got a good record & he is #1 in his division...I'm not totally sold on him yet due to his lack of skills...but he's got power & can throw a punch. Time will tell.

[Saddo]

Great work guys see the finished work via the front page or here...

http://www.saddoboxing.com/74-p4p-debate.html

[Wacko3205]

1) Erik "El Terrible" Morales - My choice for P4P Super Featherweight & Soon to be Light Welter Weight candidate: He has soundly defeated everyone that he has faced & he is totally explosive when pressed. He has 1 loss on a 47 fight record with 34 knock outs. He's won titles in every division as he moves up & he is just a full blown muthafookingmindblowing warrior! Honestly, after I post this list it will be hard for me to decide on who is in the number one slot...but I think that I am sound in my judgement due to the difference in the record & the fact that Erik has faced ruffer opposition & has had more of a "show stopping" track record.

2) Bernard Hopkins - My choice for P4P Middle Weight candidate: In my opinion...nobody...I mean nobody works as hard as Bernard, nobody except Erik Morales. Bernard's middleweight title defense number is as impressive as his age is. Also the fact that he just defeated Oscar by way of a knock out and has only 2 losses on a record of 45 fights aint bad either. It was a hard call to move the man to the number two spot who has been number one in my eye's & heart for so long...but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

3) Floyd Mayweather - My #1 choice for P4P Light Welterweight candidate: This fool is unbelieveable!! He has 32 fights under his trunks & they are all wins...convincing wins. No draws or anything like that...Floyd is awesome. He makes me think of a light version of Ali the way that he moves around the ring. Everyone pretty much looks unskilled compared to him. Time will tell who will unthrone the man...I say either Cotto (if Arum allows) or Morales (if he carries the weight) will be the most likely candidates.

4) Winky Wright - My choice for P4P Light Middle Weight candidate: I say pretty much the same for Winky as I do Mayweather...unbelieveable & technically sound. People say that Winky is boring...he's just that skilled as a boxer. Winky is a trouble spot for everyone in his division & no matter what anyone says...he is the most dodge & feared fighter out there. Again, everyone pretty much looks unskilled compared to him. He really, in my opinion, should have gone for some other opponent besides Mosley after he easily starched him...but I suppose that old "word is bond" deal came into play & who can fault a man for being respectful.

5) Miguel Cotto - My #2 choice for P4P Light Welterweight candidate: Cotto still needs to develop, but he is fast becoming one of my most favorites of all time. He is marvelous in the ring. Good defense, good power, good posture...good everything. But there is some hard seasoned fighters for him to get past...& I am unsure as to whether or not he can do it. Kostya & Mayweather would be his "impossibles", with Sharmba & Hatton being his tuffies but I think that he could do it. He has looked impressive against everyone that he has fought...but they all seem to be a bit...smaller than he is.

6) Kostya Tszyu - My #3 choice for P4P Light Welterweight candidate: By now you should all be seeing a pattern...Light Welter is my favorite spot!! That being said...this man is so good that it's scarey. The beating he gave Judah was impressive & I just can't forget him staggering across the ring waving his gloving looking so stoopified. Kostya is the second best fighter of his division...the best in my opinion being Mayweather or Cotto (snapping @ each other's necks for #1). I think that he will defeat Sharmba & go to Mayweather next...I hope not Cotto...because...well...like I said, Cotto still needs to develop...although he is one of my most favorites of all time.

7) Vitali Klitschko - My choice for P4P Heavy Weight: Yeah, yeah, I know everyone is going to shat a kidney over this...but it's my list & I base my list on the current best & my favorite fighters...that being said...Vitali has never been KO'd or even knocked down to the canvas. His only losses come from stoppages, he retired Lewis, and he is the best heavy weight out there right now...P4P. So bitch on my chaps...bitch on!!

Jeff Lacy - My choice for #1 P4P Super Middle Weight: What the fook can I say...he's very impressive for an early starter. He's taken on tuff sound opposition & out of his 17 wins, 14 of them are knock outs. I think that there is a lot more to come of this cat and I think that he can take out everyone in his division...as much as I hate to say it...even Eastman & Calzaghe, who were my favs @ this weight.

9) Manny Pacquiao - My choice for P4P Feather Weight candidate: Another impressive upstart. He has an impressive record against good opposition and he worked Barrera's ass off before stopping him. Same goes for the JMM fight...and these were two of the best in that weight class at the time. I think that once he get's to Morales...all roads will end...that being said if Morales can get back to the weight limit & if Pac can make it past a more determined Marquez this time.

10) Jermain Taylor - My 2nd choice for P4P Super Middle Weight candidate: Come get some muthafookahz!! I know everyone is shatting themselves now that I have him on my list...but Taylor is another fighter that still needs to develop and is fast becoming one of my favorites. Like Cotto he is sound in the ring and has lots of skill and power...but...BUT...everyone that he fights is smaller than he is. We will see how fast he moves up after the Joppy fight.

This list is probably going to seem wack to many of you readers...but hey...it's my list & it is who I consider the best out of the weights that interest me. Atleast I don't have Tarver on here...but then...I don't like him anyways...so why should he be on my P4P fav list?