Even if it only till the outcome of Pac/Hatton JMM is PFP#1

[XaduBoxer]

I think people are getting a little carried way here. It was a fantastic fight and Marquez did brilliantly to fight his way back into the fight and get the knockout but it doesn't jump him above the man who beat him just three fights or so ago.

Plus apart from knocking him out didn't Nate Campbell beat Juan Diaz more convincingly than Marquez?

The knockout was stunning but Marquez was getting pummeled in those early rounds whereas Nate just dominated Juan Diaz from the get go.

And Juan Diaz wasn't even in the top 10 p4p so how can Marquez become number 1 now?

Margarito's win over Cotto was bigger, as was in turn, Mosely's win over Margarito, why isn't Mosely number 1? (And no I don't think Mosely is p4p number 1 just making a point, Mosely's KO over Margarito was a far bigger shock than Marquez beating Diaz)

Marquez was I believe at least, the betting favourite over Diaz and he won in fine style after being dominated.

But he didn't look unbeatable at least not early and I don't see how that destruction was better than the slaughter Pacquaio put on Oscar.

And if you are going to try and take away Manny's credit by saying Oscar was weight drained then what about B Hop? Both his biggest wins in recent times over Pavlik and Tarver coincided with his opponents putting on career worst performances yet nobody takes his credit away.

Manny is number 1 going into his fight with Hatton.

Thank you Master Bilbo for enlightening the hordes of delusional Mighty Mike bandwagoners... You're the real MASTER...
.

[Addicted to_boxing]

I think people are getting a little carried way here. It was a fantastic fight and Marquez did brilliantly to fight his way back into the fight and get the knockout but it doesn't jump him above the man who beat him just three fights or so ago.

Plus apart from knocking him out didn't Nate Campbell beat Juan Diaz more convincingly than Marquez?

The knockout was stunning but Marquez was getting pummeled in those early rounds whereas Nate just dominated Juan Diaz from the get go.

And Juan Diaz wasn't even in the top 10 p4p so how can Marquez become number 1 now?

Margarito's win over Cotto was bigger, as was in turn, Mosely's win over Margarito, why isn't Mosely number 1? (And no I don't think Mosely is p4p number 1 just making a point, Mosely's KO over Margarito was a far bigger shock than Marquez beating Diaz)

Marquez was I believe at least, the betting favourite over Diaz and he won in fine style after being dominated.

But he didn't look unbeatable at least not early and I don't see how that destruction was better than the slaughter Pacquaio put on Oscar.

And if you are going to try and take away Manny's credit by saying Oscar was weight drained then what about B Hop? Both his biggest wins in recent times over Pavlik and Tarver coincided with his opponents putting on career worst performances yet nobody takes his credit away.

Manny is number 1 going into his fight with Hatton.

Thank you Master Bilbo for enlightening the hordes of delusional Mighty Mike bandwagoners... You're the real MASTER...
.

Very nice how you fail to admit how shot a boxer ODLH was/is in order to solidify your Pac hugging. Bhop also benefited in similar fashion by choosing plodding stylistic fighters and fighting them after they either exited the buffet line or liposuction treatment (lol)

[XaduBoxer]

I think people are getting a little carried way here. It was a fantastic fight and Marquez did brilliantly to fight his way back into the fight and get the knockout but it doesn't jump him above the man who beat him just three fights or so ago.

Plus apart from knocking him out didn't Nate Campbell beat Juan Diaz more convincingly than Marquez?

The knockout was stunning but Marquez was getting pummeled in those early rounds whereas Nate just dominated Juan Diaz from the get go.

And Juan Diaz wasn't even in the top 10 p4p so how can Marquez become number 1 now?

Margarito's win over Cotto was bigger, as was in turn, Mosely's win over Margarito, why isn't Mosely number 1? (And no I don't think Mosely is p4p number 1 just making a point, Mosely's KO over Margarito was a far bigger shock than Marquez beating Diaz)

Marquez was I believe at least, the betting favourite over Diaz and he won in fine style after being dominated.

But he didn't look unbeatable at least not early and I don't see how that destruction was better than the slaughter Pacquaio put on Oscar.

And if you are going to try and take away Manny's credit by saying Oscar was weight drained then what about B Hop? Both his biggest wins in recent times over Pavlik and Tarver coincided with his opponents putting on career worst performances yet nobody takes his credit away.

Manny is number 1 going into his fight with Hatton.

Thank you Master Bilbo for enlightening the hordes of delusional Mighty Mike bandwagoners... You're the real MASTER...
.

Very nice how you fail to admit how shot a boxer ODLH was/is in order to solidify your Pac hugging. Bhop also benefited in similar fashion by choosing plodding stylistic fighters and fighting them after they either exited the buffet line or liposuction treatment (lol)

What? Before that fight I reasoned out that PAC has a chance to defeat Hoya coz PAC has speed, quickness, youth, stamina and heart in his favor and adding Hoya is old and partially shot... But many laughed and totally write off Manny coz they said Hoya is just too big for PAC... They're saying PAC only accepted the fight because of the huge money... That's my story before that fight...

[killersheep]

Thank you Master Bilbo for enlightening the hordes of delusional Mighty Mike bandwagoners... You're the real MASTER...
.

Very nice how you fail to admit how shot a boxer ODLH was/is in order to solidify your Pac hugging. Bhop also benefited in similar fashion by choosing plodding stylistic fighters and fighting them after they either exited the buffet line or liposuction treatment (lol)

What? Before that fight I reasoned out that PAC has a chance to defeat Hoya coz PAC has speed, quickness, youth, stamina and heart in his favor and adding Hoya is old and partially shot... But many laughed and totally write off Manny coz they said Hoya is just too big for PAC... They're saying PAC only accepted the fight because of the huge money... That's my story before that fight...

To be fair, before the fight I said it was pointless because if ODLH won it would be because he was just too big, and if PAC won it was because ODLH was too old. Guess what, PAC weighed more on fight night.

[Kev]

I think people are getting a little carried way here. It was a fantastic fight and Marquez did brilliantly to fight his way back into the fight and get the knockout but it doesn't jump him above the man who beat him just three fights or so ago.

Plus apart from knocking him out didn't Nate Campbell beat Juan Diaz more convincingly than Marquez?

The knockout was stunning but Marquez was getting pummeled in those early rounds whereas Nate just dominated Juan Diaz from the get go.

And Juan Diaz wasn't even in the top 10 p4p so how can Marquez become number 1 now?

Margarito's win over Cotto was bigger, as was in turn, Mosely's win over Margarito, why isn't Mosely number 1? (And no I don't think Mosely is p4p number 1 just making a point, Mosely's KO over Margarito was a far bigger shock than Marquez beating Diaz)

Marquez was I believe at least, the betting favourite over Diaz and he won in fine style after being dominated.

But he didn't look unbeatable at least not early and I don't see how that destruction was better than the slaughter Pacquaio put on Oscar.

And if you are going to try and take away Manny's credit by saying Oscar was weight drained then what about B Hop? Both his biggest wins in recent times over Pavlik and Tarver coincided with his opponents putting on career worst performances yet nobody takes his credit away.

Manny is number 1 going into his fight with Hatton.

Thank you Master Bilbo for enlightening the hordes of delusional Mighty Mike bandwagoners... You're the real MASTER...
.

Very nice how you fail to admit how shot a boxer ODLH was/is in order to solidify your Pac hugging. Bhop also benefited in similar fashion by choosing plodding stylistic fighters and fighting them after they either exited the buffet line or liposuction treatment (lol)

I'm not a nut hugger of any fighter. You can argue how shot Oscar was all you like but he had a better recent resume than both Casamayor and Juan Diaz going into the Pacquaio fight.

Oscar's previous 3 fights were a dominating brutal beatdown of Ricardo Mayorga who gave Shane Mosely 10 times more trouble than Margarito did, a split decision loss to the world's greatest p4p and undefeated fighter and an easy routine win over Steve Forbes.

Casamayor had lost virtually every single round to Santa Cruz in possible the worst robbery of the last decade, and had then been battered about the ring by Michael Katsidis before finally pulling out a stoppage. He hadn't looked good in about 5 years.

Juan Diaz had already been completely beaten down and dominated by veteran Nate Campbell prior to coming in to the Marquez fight.

So there's no question of saying Oscar was more 'shot' going into the fight with Pacquaio as his recent performances had been better than both Casa and Juan Diaz.

Furthermore whether you like it or not Pacquaio was given the victory of Juan Manuel Marquez last year, who also has a loss recorded against him over Chris John.

Therefore it's simply impossible to make a claim that Marquez should be the p4p number 1 fighter in the world unless you think your own subjective opinion on who wins a very close fight means more than an officially sanctioned result.

Anyone who tries to argue that the Ring Magazine should have Marquez as number 1 in the world I just cannot take seriously.

[Gandalf]

Marquez is the P4P No 1 as far as I'm concerned. He has proven himself as good as Manny Pac and he has cleaned out 135 the way it should be done.

[JT Rock]

I'm sorry Bilbo but I dont agree with your logic... JMM is a 35 year old fighter with 16 years experience and many of wars, he just absolutely crushed in brutal fashion a peak prime 135 pound relentless pressure fighting whirlwind who 3 fights ago was considered toast of the division even though Casamayor got a XMAS present against Santa Cruz...

a year ago 99% considered Diaz the Champ of the division, Marquez beat him at his own game knocked him down 2x and sparked him out cold... Diaz has never been stopped before.

Against Casamoyar a 1st ballot Hall Of Famer and can argue his resume is as good as Delahoya's in terms of who he's fought and beat... JMM stopped him, 1st man ever to do that too...

So JMM moves up in weight like Pac, Beats the ring #1 champ, Pac fought a pathetic title holder, Pac fights a zombie version of Delahoya, JMM beats the former #1-2 fighter at 135 in Diaz.

The proof is in the puddind

JMM is the real McCoy, no doubt about it#1 unless Pac can beat Hatton, if not JMM stays #1

[Kev]

I'm sorry Bilbo but I dont agree with your logic... JMM is a 35 year old fighter with 16 years experience and many of wars, he just absolutely crushed in brutal fashion a peak prime 135 pound relentless pressure fighting whirlwind who 3 fights ago was considered toast of the division even though Casamayor got a XMAS present against Santa Cruz...

a year ago 99% considered Diaz the Champ of the division, Marquez beat him at his own game knocked him down 2x and sparked him out cold... Diaz has never been stopped before.

Against Casamoyar a 1st ballot Hall Of Famer and can argue his resume is as good as Delahoya's in terms of who he's fought and beat... JMM stopped him, 1st man ever to do that too...

So JMM moves up in weight like Pac, Beats the ring #1 champ, Pac fought a pathetic title holder, Pac fights a zombie version of Delahoya, JMM beats the former #1-2 fighter at 135 in Diaz.

The proof is in the puddind

JMM is the real McCoy, no doubt about it#1 unless Pac can beat Hatton, if not JMM stays #1

I completely agree that JMM is the real McCoy he is an awesome fighter no doubt, but you can't put him at number 1 in the p4p rankings off the back of that win in place of the guy who holds a win over him just a couple fights ago.

And everything you said about Diaz applies pretty much to De La Hoya. Oscar had never been beaten up, only stopped once bymiddleweight king B Hop and had just lost a split decision to the p4p's best.

Marquez knocked Diaz out but he wasn't the first to beat him, Nate Campbell dominated Juan Diaz from the first bell and beat him far easier than Marquez did.

Unless you believe Nate is a top 10 p4p fighter your argument holds no logic to me.

Yes Marquez is great, yes he's unquestionably number 2 in the world but he can't leapfrog a man who beat him a year ago and then leapt not one, not two, but three weight classes and dominated and destroyed a living legend in De La Hoya.

Imo you are only detracting from Marquez's brilliant acomplishments by trying to make claims that cannot be backed up.

Marquez lost to Pacquaio in an extremely close fight hence he cannot be p4p number 1 in the world until he either avenges that defeat or Manny loses.

That's just the way boxing works. Manny defeated a fighter in Oscar that no boxing expert in the world expected him to do, whilst Marquez won a fight with Juan Diaz in which he was the slight favourite going in anyway seeing as Diaz had already been completely manhandled by a 36 veteran only two fights before.

If Manny loses to Hatton I'd have no problem putting Marquez as number 1 in the world but until then Manny is still the man.

[Kev]

I should add here that imo it's emotion that is causing people to react like this.

MArquez was getting overwhelmed in the early rounds by Diaz and so it made his comeback and subsuequent destruction of Diaz that much sweeter, it also happened to be a hugely competitive and exciting fight.

Pacquaio on the other hand completely outclassed and dominated Oscar from the very first bell so people are less impressed and just conclude that Oscar was weight drained and shot.

That's not fair imo, what more could Manny have done? He totally owned Oscar, beat him down and made him quit on his stool, there's simply nothing more he could have done to win more impressively hence how in the world can he drop DOWN from number one in the world?

[:::PSL:::]

I'm sorry Bilbo but I dont agree with your logic... JMM is a 35 year old fighter with 16 years experience and many of wars, he just absolutely crushed in brutal fashion a peak prime 135 pound relentless pressure fighting whirlwind who 3 fights ago was considered toast of the division even though Casamayor got a XMAS present against Santa Cruz...

a year ago 99% considered Diaz the Champ of the division, Marquez beat him at his own game knocked him down 2x and sparked him out cold... Diaz has never been stopped before.

Against Casamoyar a 1st ballot Hall Of Famer and can argue his resume is as good as Delahoya's in terms of who he's fought and beat... JMM stopped him, 1st man ever to do that too...

So JMM moves up in weight like Pac, Beats the ring #1 champ, Pac fought a pathetic title holder, Pac fights a zombie version of Delahoya, JMM beats the former #1-2 fighter at 135 in Diaz.

The proof is in the puddind

JMM is the real McCoy, no doubt about it#1 unless Pac can beat Hatton, if not JMM stays #1

I completely agree that JMM is the real McCoy he is an awesome fighter no doubt, but you can't put him at number 1 in the p4p rankings off the back of that win in place of the guy who holds a win over him just a couple fights ago.

And everything you said about Diaz applies pretty much to De La Hoya. Oscar had never been beaten up, only stopped once bymiddleweight king B Hop and had just lost a split decision to the p4p's best.

Marquez knocked Diaz out but he wasn't the first to beat him, Nate Campbell dominated Juan Diaz from the first bell and beat him far easier than Marquez did.

Unless you believe Nate is a top 10 p4p fighter your argument holds no logic to me.

Yes Marquez is great, yes he's unquestionably number 2 in the world but he can't leapfrog a man who beat him a year ago and then leapt not one, not two, but three weight classes and dominated and destroyed a living legend in De La Hoya.

Imo you are only detracting from Marquez's brilliant acomplishments by trying to make claims that cannot be backed up.

Marquez lost to Pacquaio in an extremely close fight hence he cannot be p4p number 1 in the world until he either avenges that defeat or Manny loses.

That's just the way boxing works. Manny defeated a fighter in Oscar that no boxing expert in the world expected him to do, whilst Marquez won a fight with Juan Diaz in which he was the slight favourite going in anyway seeing as Diaz had already been completely manhandled by a 36 veteran only two fights before.

If Manny loses to Hatton I'd have no problem putting Marquez as number 1 in the world but until then Manny is still the man.

Bilbo pretty much summed it all up on why MP should remain as #1 p4p.

But JT Rock,

Are saying Hatton is just a mediocre B-level fighter and Pacquiao won't gain anything by beating him?