Today in the economy

[Kirkland Laing]

Kirk if I am following you, than the overall price of medical care won't really fall so I our brightest minds will still spend 8-12 years in school so that deals with one of my concerns. Will we have health care rationing though? I don't really want the federal govt telling people when and what type of health care they can receive. I also feel that an "everyone pays the same, everyone gets the same" program takes personal accountability out of the equation. If I don't use tobacco, drink heavily, use drugs or have multiple sex partners and I eat a balanced diet and exercise why should I have to pay the same as someone who isn't as healthy? I don't think there is any question that the insurance companies are the issue and we need to dramatically decrease the cost of health care. I think there has to be a middle ground between the system we have and a single payer system

Healthcare costs would fall by 30% if you cut out the huge bureauocracy that runs the system now and created one national single payer system. Doctors will still get paid the market price for their work, nobody would see any change to their healthcare apart from less form filling and no denial of coverage. Uninsured/unhealthy peoples' healthcare is already paid for by insured active healthy people, it would just get much cheaper to pay for with this system. Most of the things you hear about how a single payer system is one step from socialism are not true. It just means that a buyer representing 300 million people negotiates costs and benefits for everyone versus one guy/firm trying to buy individual healthcare for himself/employees. This makes everything much cheaper. The single payer then aggregates those costs and divides by 300 million without adding another layer of profit. It's not entirely fair on healthy versus unhealthy people although if a healthy person is in a car wreck or gets some disabling disease and needs decade of healthcare then they're going to get it and not have to worry about denial of coverage etc. so it's all good in the end and much cheaper than the current system. For a few years now CEO's like GM's CEO have been calling for such a system because the US system makes building cars in America versus abroad uncompetitive. America spends vast quantities more per person than other countries for often crappier results.

[VictorCharlie]

Whats different about your system versus what Canada has? B/C I've never met a Canadian that liked their health care system. And how do you choose the insurance company to negotiate the price with? I also don't see how this forces doctors/hospitals to compete against one another and conversely their prices. Obviously we would then do away with medicare/medicaid but whats the real cost to the taxpayer? How much does a guy like me on $50,000 a year pay in taxes so myself and everyone else gets it?

[CFH]

Whats different about your system versus what Canada has? B/C I've never met a Canadian that liked their health care system. And how do you choose the insurance company to negotiate the price with? I also don't see how this forces doctors/hospitals to compete against one another and conversely their prices. Obviously we would then do away with medicare/medicaid but whats the real cost to the taxpayer? How much does a guy like me on $50,000 a year pay in taxes so myself and everyone else gets it?

I like our health care system. It's far (very, very far) from perfect, but it is one of the proudest accomplishments as a nation. From what I know of the U.S. system, I much prefer the Canadian way. However, with the aging baby-boomer generation and changing demography, it might be in peril in the not too distant future.

[VictorCharlie]

At yalls leisure check out this series..Vids 1-6 and let me know what you think

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[VictorCharlie]

Whats different about your system versus what Canada has? B/C I've never met a Canadian that liked their health care system. And how do you choose the insurance company to negotiate the price with? I also don't see how this forces doctors/hospitals to compete against one another and conversely their prices. Obviously we would then do away with medicare/medicaid but whats the real cost to the taxpayer? How much does a guy like me on $50,000 a year pay in taxes so myself and everyone else gets it?

I like our health care system. It's far (very, very far) from perfect, but it is one of the proudest accomplishments as a nation. From what I know of the U.S. system, I much prefer the Canadian way. However, with the aging baby-boomer generation and changing demography, it might be in peril in the not too distant future.

Okay so I've met one Canadian who likes it

[CFH]

Whats different about your system versus what Canada has? B/C I've never met a Canadian that liked their health care system. And how do you choose the insurance company to negotiate the price with? I also don't see how this forces doctors/hospitals to compete against one another and conversely their prices. Obviously we would then do away with medicare/medicaid but whats the real cost to the taxpayer? How much does a guy like me on $50,000 a year pay in taxes so myself and everyone else gets it?

I like our health care system. It's far (very, very far) from perfect, but it is one of the proudest accomplishments as a nation. From what I know of the U.S. system, I much prefer the Canadian way. However, with the aging baby-boomer generation and changing demography, it might be in peril in the not too distant future.

Okay so I've met one Canadian who likes it

I wasn't trying to stir shit up or anything, just giving my opinion. Most of the people I know take great pride in our system and laud it as one of Canada's few great accomplishments. However, it is very true that there are plenty of other people here who feel differently.

[Kirkland Laing]

Whats different about your system versus what Canada has? B/C I've never met a Canadian that liked their health care system. And how do you choose the insurance company to negotiate the price with? I also don't see how this forces doctors/hospitals to compete against one another and conversely their prices. Obviously we would then do away with medicare/medicaid but whats the real cost to the taxpayer? How much does a guy like me on $50,000 a year pay in taxes so myself and everyone else gets it?

The insurance companies go out of business. There's only one company and that deals with all the hospitals and doctors. Doctors and hospitals don't compete against each other, they just do what they're doing now except with infinitely less paperwork, so they save time and money. The number one complainr of doctors is that they spend all their time and their staff do too filling in forms that the insurance companies use to try and cut/deny healthcare to people. The whole thing works out vastly cheaper than the current system, not more expensive. It would cut yearly costs by hundreds of billions and extend care to everyone. Here's the doctors themselves to explain it :

What is Single Payer? | Physicians for a National Health Program

Why the US Needs a Single Payer Health System | Physicians for a National Health Program

[Kirkland Laing]

“The invisible hand of free markets has succeeded beyond anyone’s wildest expectations."

George W Bush
October 18th, 2006





March 31 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. government and the Federal Reserve have spent, lent or committed $12.8 trillion, an amount that approaches the value of everything produced in the country last year, to stem the longest recession since the 1930s.
New pledges from the Fed, the Treasury Department and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. include $1 trillion for the Public-Private Investment Program, designed to help investors buy distressed loans and other assets from U.S. banks. The money works out to $42,105 for every man, woman and child in the U.S. and 14 times the $899.8 billion of currency in circulation. The nation’s gross domestic product was $14.2 trillion in 2008.






http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...CA4&refer=home

[VictorCharlie]

I feel pretty positive that we are well on the way to a single payer system and it sounds great in theory. I'm just not sure it will work as perfect in practice as described. Guess we will just have to wait and see.

[Kirkland Laing]

I feel pretty positive that we are well on the way to a single payer system and it sounds great in theory. I'm just not sure it will work as perfect in practice as described. Guess we will just have to wait and see.

Whatever they come up with it'll be corrupt and not work nearly as well as it could do. Finland usually ranks as the least corrupt government on earth. Their healthcare, education, general state system works really well and they only have a small fraction of the wealth of the United States. I'd like to see what a bunch of Finnish advisors could do for the US government. And the British one too.

[VictorCharlie]

Ever the optimist Kirk...We can only hope that if Obama does it that he puts together a really good study of the nations who do it well and who dont