Capitalism

[Kirkland Laing]

I think considering the possible death toll any attack or military action against N. Korea must be initiated by the South Koreans first. If NKR decided to roll south or just fire their thousand artillery pieces there would be thousands of US deaths but that pails in comparison to the SKR deaths. I think its in China's best interest not to have a ground war on its border. They will let Kim Jong Il saber rattle but in the end I think they will yank his chain and put him back in line.

South Korea don't want to fight a war with NK and don't want us stirring trouble in the region and hyping a "threat" just so our war industry can claim trillions more dollars for a missile defence system that doesn't work. Nobody in the region wants us to do anything militarily, they all want us to back off and resolve the situation peacefully.

[VictorCharlie]

I think considering the possible death toll any attack or military action against N. Korea must be initiated by the South Koreans first. If NKR decided to roll south or just fire their thousand artillery pieces there would be thousands of US deaths but that pails in comparison to the SKR deaths. I think its in China's best interest not to have a ground war on its border. They will let Kim Jong Il saber rattle but in the end I think they will yank his chain and put him back in line.

South Korea don't want to fight a war with NK and don't want us stirring trouble in the region and hyping a "threat" just so our war industry can claim trillions more dollars for a missile defence system that doesn't work. Nobody in the region wants us to do anything militarily, they all want us to back off and resolve the situation peacefully.

isn't that what I pretty much said

[Kirkland Laing]

I think considering the possible death toll any attack or military action against N. Korea must be initiated by the South Koreans first. If NKR decided to roll south or just fire their thousand artillery pieces there would be thousands of US deaths but that pails in comparison to the SKR deaths. I think its in China's best interest not to have a ground war on its border. They will let Kim Jong Il saber rattle but in the end I think they will yank his chain and put him back in line.

South Korea don't want to fight a war with NK and don't want us stirring trouble in the region and hyping a "threat" just so our war industry can claim trillions more dollars for a missile defence system that doesn't work. Nobody in the region wants us to do anything militarily, they all want us to back off and resolve the situation peacefully.

isn't that what I pretty much said

It sounded to me like you were keen to start a war or were thinking one was likely. Now I know you're not that's good.

[VictorCharlie]

My point is that unless the South explicitly says to use military action no one has any business attacking the North. And that I think China will ultimately keep North Korea in line. I massive land war in Asia is not what they need right now.

[Kirkland Laing]

My point is that unless the South explicitly says to use military action no one has any business attacking the North. And that I think China will ultimately keep North Korea in line. I massive land war in Asia is not what they need right now.

Yep, they don't want millions of refugees flooding over their border. The whole thing will be resolved peacefully at some point. I could point out the history of negotiations over the last ten years but you'd only accuse me of hating Bush and ridiculing him by pointing out what he actually did re. North Korea while he was in office.

[VictorCharlie]

Now now dont get salty Kirk Agree or disagree I am always interested in your posts. I only pointed out your bias b/c it takes away from the objectivity of your usually impeccable research. You rib Lyle pretty good about not providing good stats for his posts but I think a lot of your posts would be stronger if the constant damnation of Bush/GOP were left out. Why not just let the facts speak for themselves? In regards to the other post I've never heard Lyle blame Obama for the crisis. Drastic times call for drastic measures. And drastic measure are always debatable.

[Kirkland Laing]

Now now dont get salty Kirk Agree or disagree I am always interested in your posts. I only pointed out your bias b/c it takes away from the objectivity of your usually impeccable research. You rib Lyle pretty good about not providing good stats for his posts but I think a lot of your posts would be stronger if the constant damnation of Bush/GOP were left out. Why not just let the facts speak for themselves? In regards to the other post I've never heard Lyle blame Obama for the crisis. Drastic times call for drastic measures. And drastic measure are always debatable.

Well I let the facts speak for themselves on the financial crisis but in a day or so you'll be back to blaming both sides equally for it, not that you're biased or anything. And I didn't let the facts speak for themselves over North Korea because I'd either be accused of being a Bush hater or discover that Bush's disastrous NK policy was actually Obama's fault now. If you want to debate either issue then debate away, answer what I already posted.

[El Kabong]

Say what you will about George W. Bush but I tend to think his words meant a bit more to other leaders because of what we did to Iraq...and perhaps the leaders are trying to test Barry right now and when he's in Europe just slamming his own country for policies etc...I don't think they take him as serious as W. On the other hand it may be that China is feeling a little bit bolder these days.

And Kirk all I have ever done is get after Barry for how he has dealt with this crisis.

Also with North Korea it's not that they will use the missles but maybe they will sell them to some country that will use them. Is that not a legitimate worry? Didn't North Korea sell nuclear material to Syria and maybe missles to Iran...those countries aren't friendly to us or to our allies.

http://images.smh.com.au/2009/04/03/...w420-420x0.jpg

...all W did was dance with the dude

[Gandalf]

North Korea is a threat to nobody really. They have had their launch and the party is over. No war, no issues.

North Korea has a right to launch satellites, and no country can tell them no. That would just be hypocritical and they will do it regardless. And so they should.

Of course, they could be a threat. But in isolation and left to their own devices, they won't be.

[Gandalf]

Say what you will about George W. Bush but I tend to think his words meant a bit more to other leaders because of what we did to Iraq...and perhaps the leaders are trying to test Barry right now and when he's in Europe just slamming his own country for policies etc...I don't think they take him as serious as W. On the other hand it may be that China is feeling a little bit bolder these days.

And Kirk all I have ever done is get after Barry for how he has dealt with this crisis.

Also with North Korea it's not that they will use the missles but maybe they will sell them to some country that will use them. Is that not a legitimate worry? Didn't North Korea sell nuclear material to Syria and maybe missles to Iran...those countries aren't friendly to us or to our allies.

http://images.smh.com.au/2009/04/03/...w420-420x0.jpg
...all W did was dance with the dude

Doesn't your ridiculous country sell weapons to numerous other countries? Doesn't the US supply Isael with too much?? All of that shit should stop, but until arms trade is outlawed then you reap what you deserve. If you say no to North Korea then you are being rather bullshitty. You deserve to be on the receiving end, no use in being a hypocrite.

[Kirkland Laing]

Say what you will about George W. Bush but I tend to think his words meant a bit more to other leaders because of what we did to Iraq...and perhaps the leaders are trying to test Barry right now and when he's in Europe just slamming his own country for policies etc...I don't think they take him as serious as W. On the other hand it may be that China is feeling a little bit bolder these days.

And Kirk all I have ever done is get after Barry for how he has dealt with this crisis.

Also with North Korea it's not that they will use the missles but maybe they will sell them to some country that will use them. Is that not a legitimate worry? Didn't North Korea sell nuclear material to Syria and maybe missles to Iran...those countries aren't friendly to us or to our allies.

http://images.smh.com.au/2009/04/03/...w420-420x0.jpg...all W did was dance with the dude

George Bush became a laughing stock because he talked tough then ran away. His signature policy, Iraq, cost the US 4000 lives, tens of thousands so badly wounded they'll need lifelong medical care, three trillion dollars, and handed Iraq, the world's second-biggest oil reserve over to the Iranians. America showed the world the limits of its military capability in Iraq and greatlry reduced the credibility of the president and his ability to get anything else done.

And you keep talking about how Obama is "blaming America", but you can't back it up with facts, and that's because the facts don't exist and you're just parroting some rightwing crackhead as usual. Do you honestly think foreign leaders took Bush seriously? Over what exatly? All the man ever did was talk tough then run away. When he screwed something up he went begging to the UN to get him out of the mess he'd got himself into. Bush was a joke internationally.

What difference does it make how bold China is? Can you explain that one? Define "bold."

NK don't have any missiles to sell to anybody. Nobody wants to buy something that demonstrably doesn't work. And they don't have anything to put on the end of any missile. They don't have anywhere near the technological capability to build an effective missile, nuclear warhead or warhead re-entry capability. If you knew the facts you'd have no reason to wet the bed over this.