The Thrilla in Manilla Documentary

[El Kabong]

Oh I am certainly pissed off about it too...Ali does all this EVIL stuff, he never got called on it, nobody ever said "this is wrong" not even Jesse Jackson who if I'm not mistaken has always been opposed to racism, Bryant Gumbel even WILLINGLY participated in the racism against Joe Frazier with the article "Is Joe Frazier a white champion in black skin"

And yet after doing all this crap Ali makes the money, Ali is the icon, Ali is "The Greatest of All-Time"....and all Joe has is his gym and his comparative good health.

Also guys like Gumbel and Jackson are still around spouting their views on race....you already gave us your views and they were fucking wrong 30 years ago and they are wrong right now!

This documentary described in detail why I have a hard time respecting Muhammed Ali as a person.

[Nameless]

I like Ali as a boxer, hate him as a person and I am unfortunate enough to not have access to HBO at the moment, hopefully it'll be uploaded somewhere eventually so I can see it and give my opinion about the documentary.

[BoomBoom]

Id love to see the documentary. Ill be completely honest, ive always been a fan of Ali and respected him as a person, but I wasnt around during that era so all Ive heard about Ali is the good. Unfortunately, like everything else the media puts its spin on things and ultimately we get cheated out of the ablity to develop our own opinions based on facts.

[:::PSL:::]

Lots of hate and politics with their rivalry. And wtf, Ali fired 3 gun shots outside the hotel balcony that they were staying?

[Majesty]

I think its ignorant for people to watch the documentary and then say they hate Ali as a person.

Ali has already apologized and said he was hyping a fight, he holds no remorse towards Frazier and even apologized to his son. Frazier to this day is proud of what he has done to Ali and won't let it go nor be forgiving. How someone can praise Frazier for that and yet hate Ali for manning up and apologizing and saying he was wrong is beyond my understanding. Frazier even has it on his ring tone what he has done to Ali, yet people praise him and put Ali all in the wrong here? It was 30 years ago, and Ali has since apologized a long time ago, Frazier still holds onto it and is happy about what he did. How can you defend a man that says Ali "deserved to be thrown into the fire" at the Olympics?

And how can you throw out the 60 million he put into a Center that focuses on peace respect and responsibility in Louisville, thats also a non profit organization. Just throw out, throw out his humanitarian efforts through his global travels since his retirement, and throw out the 20 million plus meals he's provided for the hungry more then 200 days a year, throw out all the great things he's done since his retirement becoming a greater person then some people could wish to be, just throw all that out because of him hyping the fight with Joe Frazier which he apologized for, fuck any fan that says he hates Ali as a person. And thats from the bottom of my heart, and it may seem harsh but fuck whoever judges Ali as a person because of his actions in that one part of his life which he has apologized for. Keep praising Frazier for holding onto it and not accepting apologies and putting his love for what he's done to Ali in his ringtone almost 30 years later and praise him for nearly making Ali cry when at a personal appearance Joe got on a speaker saying "I guess we know who won those fights now don't we."

I don't get where people come from so times or how fast boxing fans can switch sides because of a documentary while ignoring all the things someone has done in their life since. Fuck any boxing fan who turns their back on Ali all because of one documentary thats not even relevant to what he is doing now.

[RozzySean]

I think its ignorant for people to watch the documentary and then say they hate Ali as a person.

Ali has already apologized and said he was hyping a fight, he holds no remorse towards Frazier and even apologized to his son. Frazier to this day is proud of what he has done to Ali and won't let it go nor be forgiving. How someone can praise Frazier for that and yet hate Ali for manning up and apologizing and saying he was wrong is beyond my understanding. Frazier even has it on his ring tone what he has done to Ali, yet people praise him and put Ali all in the wrong here? It was 30 years ago, and Ali has since apologized a long time ago, Frazier still holds onto it and is happy about what he did. How can you defend a man that says Ali "deserved to be thrown into the fire" at the Olympics?

And how can you throw out the 60 million he put into a Center that focuses on peace respect and responsibility in Louisville, thats also a non profit organization. Just throw out, throw out his humanitarian efforts through his global travels since his retirement, and throw out the 20 million plus meals he's provided for the hungry more then 200 days a year, throw out all the great things he's done since his retirement becoming a greater person then some people could wish to be, just throw all that out because of him hyping the fight with Joe Frazier which he apologized for, fuck any fan that says he hates Ali as a person. And thats from the bottom of my heart, and it may seem harsh but fuck whoever judges Ali as a person because of his actions in that one part of his life which he has apologized for. Keep praising Frazier for holding onto it and not accepting apologies and putting his love for what he's done to Ali in his ringtone almost 30 years later and praise him for nearly making Ali cry when at a personal appearance Joe got on a speaker saying "I guess we know who won those fights now don't we."

I don't get where people come from so times or how fast boxing fans can switch sides because of a documentary while ignoring all the things someone has done in their life since. Fuck any boxing fan who turns their back on Ali all because of one documentary thats not even relevant to what he is doing now.

You have a point that at some point, it's time to grow up and forgive. I think a lot of why Frazier won't let it go is because he was so supportive of Ali when the chips were down for him, and then he turned on him. Combine this with the Ali's legacy and the fact the he was never held accountable by the public for being so horrible, it's a bitter pill to swallow. Ali should have apologized to Frazier man to man.

Like any other person, Ali did things that were both positive and negative. Ali certainly did many positive things with this fame and fortune. If not for those things, he would be remembered very differently. But there is no denying that for most of his career, Ali was an egotistical, hypocritical, self serving jerk. And there's no denying Frazier got the short end of the stick.

[Majesty]

You have a point that at some point, it's time to grow up and forgive. I think a lot of why Frazier won't let it go is because he was so supportive of Ali when the chips were down for him, and then he turned on him. Combine this with the Ali's legacy and the fact the he was never held accountable by the public for being so horrible, it's a bitter pill to swallow. Ali should have apologized to Frazier man to man.

Like any other person, Ali did things that were both positive and negative. Ali certainly did many positive things with this fame and fortune. If not for those things, he would be remembered very differently. But there is no denying that for most of his career, Ali was an egotistical, hypocritical, self serving jerk. And there's no denying Frazier got the short end of the stick.

In boxing hype always gets out of control, I don't see anyone saying Larry Holmes is a bad guy for playing the race card in the Gerry Cooney fight and turning it into something huge in which Jesse Jackson actually HAD to interfere.

One thing about Ali that everyone knew is that he hyped every fight the same way he talked a lot of trash during the hype, did a lot of egotistical things before and during it, but Bert Sugar said it best when he said that Ali did it in a playful way and always showed respect afterwards, I believe he said it when he was comparing the way Floyd Mayweather talked trash and the way Ali did.

Ali is looked at as the greatest for more then just his boxing career but what he has done afterwards. It's not like Ali gets the credit for being the greatest for nothing, Ali went and did something positive in his life and in attempts to help make others lives better. Ali got his reputation as the greatest for what he has done after boxing and all the effort he put into helping others. So to say Joe got the short end of the stick is bullshit in my opinion, because its not like Ali retired, did nothing, and got the credit. Know what I mean?

And let's not forget that Ali WAS held horrible in the account of the public for his antics and got death threats and things as well, and you can bet your ass Joe Frazier wasn't the only person who suffered.

My whole thing is, it's not always what someone does, but what they do after.

After all was said and done, Ali called Frazier great, gave him the credit he deserved, and apologized for all he has done. And even to this day has tried to reconcile with Frazier and Joe decides not to, to this day.

People want to say that Ali is an egotistical hypocrite and such, but then they go and ignore that on the first documentary of these two(on the first fight) Frazier said near the end of it that he has swallowed many razor blades in his career and that they cut inside and that if he has said anything thats hurt Ali he just wanted to say, hey man, he was sorry.

And then he turns around in this documentary and completely goes back on that. Why is no one talking about that? Why is everyone ONLY talking about what Ali's done? Thats as unfair as people are saying Ali gets the treatment as the greatest, in my opinion.

But like i said, I try to look at how people end these feuds, Ali has gone on to do great things as a person and in the community and tried to reconcile with Frazier, Frazier still chooses not to. And that's not Ali's fault. You cannot fault a man for trying and Ali has tried time and time again to make things right with Frazier who keeps refusing. If Ali had done nothing and just went "screw frazier i beat him i don't care" then I understand people saying they don't respect him. But Ali has apologized to his son, apologized, and tried to this day to make things right with Frazier who still refuses. So how can Joe say "why didn't he come to me and apologize" when to this day Ali has tried and Frazier doesn't accept it. How can you blame Ali for trying?

[rjj tszyu]

Oh I am certainly pissed off about it too...Ali does all this EVIL stuff, he never got called on it, nobody ever said "this is wrong" not even Jesse Jackson who if I'm not mistaken has always been opposed to racism, Bryant Gumbel even WILLINGLY participated in the racism against Joe Frazier with the article "Is Joe Frazier a white champion in black skin"

And yet after doing all this crap Ali makes the money, Ali is the icon, Ali is "The Greatest of All-Time"....and all Joe has is his gym and his comparative good health.

Also guys like Gumbel and Jackson are still around spouting their views on race....you already gave us your views and they were fucking wrong 30 years ago and they are wrong right now!

This documentary described in detail why I have a hard time respecting Muhammed Ali as a person.

It was all gimmicks to sell the fight though. If you watch champions forever you can see that they have a lot of respect for each other.

Also you talk about Ali being beat up in all 3 fights with Joe. Well Joe is a certain top 10 all time great HW. He beat up on everyone he ever fought barring Foreman and that was only because he was tailor made for Foreman. There is no shame at all in being beat up by Smokin' Joe!

[match]

Oh I am certainly pissed off about it too...Ali does all this EVIL stuff, he never got called on it, nobody ever said "this is wrong" not even Jesse Jackson who if I'm not mistaken has always been opposed to racism, Bryant Gumbel even WILLINGLY participated in the racism against Joe Frazier with the article "Is Joe Frazier a white champion in black skin"

And yet after doing all this crap Ali makes the money, Ali is the icon, Ali is "The Greatest of All-Time"....and all Joe has is his gym and his comparative good health.

Also guys like Gumbel and Jackson are still around spouting their views on race....you already gave us your views and they were fucking wrong 30 years ago and they are wrong right now!

This documentary described in detail why I have a hard time respecting Muhammed Ali as a person.

"I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong...They never called me n!gger."--Muhammad Ali

If you're smart enough to understand this quote, you should be smart enough to realize why Ali (as well as millions of Black people) were pissed off and why this thread is so asinine.

[Lance Uppercut]

Oh I am certainly pissed off about it too...Ali does all this EVIL stuff, he never got called on it, nobody ever said "this is wrong" not even Jesse Jackson who if I'm not mistaken has always been opposed to racism, Bryant Gumbel even WILLINGLY participated in the racism against Joe Frazier with the article "Is Joe Frazier a white champion in black skin"

And yet after doing all this crap Ali makes the money, Ali is the icon, Ali is "The Greatest of All-Time"....and all Joe has is his gym and his comparative good health.

Also guys like Gumbel and Jackson are still around spouting their views on race....you already gave us your views and they were fucking wrong 30 years ago and they are wrong right now!

This documentary described in detail why I have a hard time respecting Muhammed Ali as a person.

"I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong...They never called me n!gger."--Muhammad Ali

If you're smart enough to understand this quote, you should be smart enough to realize why Ali (as well as millions of Black people) were pissed off and why this thread is so asinine.

Yea, a thread about a boxing documentary, on a boxing forum, where people have different opinions. That is "so asinine."

[match]

His opinion on Ali isn't asinine, the fact that he can't see why Muhammad Ali was so bitter is.

[Mr140]

Well also what i did not know is that Joe Fraizer was blind in one eye which gotta be a hell of a problem in boxing yet he still went on atg.

[Killa From Manila]

I love it when they booed Ali during introduction. The majority of the crowd was pro Frazier.