With Both Now "Retired," Who Had The Better Legacy, Oscar or Floyd

[jon09]

Good thread but I might argue that Floyd is not 36 years old and not officially retired yet. Oscar has had more controversy in losses and in wins. Floyd has 1 controversy in Castillo which he beat him easier in a rematch and has not lost yet. Oscar has controversy with and no rematches with Pernell, Sturm, Quartey and I still think he took a dive in the Hopkins fight and had that marathon with Tito. I think a gold medal would have probably helped Pretty Boy Floyd alot more in the professionals like it did for Oscar. I think if Cotto would have beaten Margarito then I think Floyd would have fought him because it would have been a mega showdown that could have brought in alot of money. Oscar could have fought Margarito also but he chose to fight a smaller fighter in Pacman instead, which backfired on him in the worst way. I think as of now Floyd has a better legacy then Oscar.

[fan johnny]

I'll to go with Oscar on this one. Oscar got a statue!

[Kev]

Im gonna try to break this one down. Floyd is an unbelievably talented fighter, but his overall competition doesnt quite stack up to Oscars. Both men have 39 wins. Both were multi-division champions. Yes, Floyd has no loses and Oscar has 6. But I give Oscar a lot of credit for his loses because they were ALL to future HOFers and he did fight them. Floyd hasnt fought 6 Hall of Fame caliber fighters in his career. Oscar did lose those fights but my rational is to take them off his record and put them on a shelf for now.

Now, we have 39 wins per fighters so Im going to select their 15 biggest wins. Again, this is my opinion, but there is not much to argue here and these are in no particular order.

Oscar De La Hoya:
Julio Ceasar Chavez
Pernell Whittaker
Miguel Angel Gonzales
Ike Quartey
Fernando Vargas
Jorge Paez
John John Molina
Rafael Ruelas
Arturo Gatti
Genaro Hernandez
Hector Camacho
Jesse James Lieja
Oba Carr
Ricardo Mayorga
Javier Castillejo

Floyd Mayweather:
Oscar De La Hoya
Ricky Hatton
Diego Corrales
Jose Luis Castillo
Zab Judah
Arturo Gatti
Carlos Manuel Baldomir
Angel Manfredy
Sharmba Mitchell
Jesus Chavez
Carlos Hernandez
Phillip N'dou
Victoriano Sosa
DeMarcus Corley
Genaro Hernandez

Now, going back to Oscars loses. 3 of them are current champions and all top p4p fighters in the world (Hopkins, Pac, Mosley). The two others are Felix Trinidad and Floyd himself.

Floyd has never lost a fight. Is that a testement to his greatness or lack of worthy opposition? You be the judge. Both guys are undeniably among the best of recent times and it will be interesting to see how history remembers them.

I think Floyd's resume surpasses Oscars clearly. It's one thing fighting the best its another matter to beat them all.

And Floyd is hardly short of Hall of Fame fighters on his resume, Oscar, Hatton, Castillo and Coralles are all pretty much shoe ins and with the exception of Oscar Floyd fought them all in their primes.

I mean if its just about facing the best and being competitive then Tony Tucker must be an all time great heavyweight for taking both a prime Tyson and a prime Lennox Lewis the distance, he almost managed to hang until the final bell against a prime John Ruiz as well

[Nameless]

I think we will clearly be able to answer that question once Floyd retires once and for all, the date is incomplete for the moment but I think that if Floyd would beat 2-3 other top fighters in his prime or like Oscar did, win in a sixth weight category he has (unfortunately) the potential to bypass Oscar without a doubt (and I say without a doubt because for the moment it is not clear).

[Mr140]

Even with Oscars loses i think that his wins look better then Mayweather and for the people saying he had wins that were close. For ever close fight he won there was a fight he lost that could of gone his way to. One thing about Oscars career are his big wins and loses some of them should of gone the other way so its hard to really judge it sometimes i think.

[leftylee]

First off, I congratulate you on a very good post. In my opinion Oscar had the better legacy, though they both had good opposition, Oscar's was just a bit better. Furthermore, Oscar, took on all comers while, Mayweather dodged some good fights. For example; Cotto, Margarito, Mosely. De La Hoya, though he lost some of his fights, never avoided the tough opposition. In my opinion to be a great fighter, you have to take on the best, win or, and Mayweather retired before fully fullfilling his legacy.

Not really sure how you work that part out about the dodging, Floyd Mayweather did offer Shane Mosley a fight at one point. But declined it and made an excuse i can't remember what it was. But they were always mostly at different weightclasses.

Antonio Margarito was a nobody when he offered Floyd Mayweather a fight, and secondly since Antonio Margarito has been found out as a cheater. Does it really matter now ?

The only one i agree on is Miguel Cotto, but has Miguel Cotto ever really called out Floyd Mayweather ? and lastly to the topic creator's orignal question, yes ODLH clearly has the better resume at this moment in time.

And who the hell are you ?

[BoomBoom]

Im gonna try to break this one down. Floyd is an unbelievably talented fighter, but his overall competition doesnt quite stack up to Oscars. Both men have 39 wins. Both were multi-division champions. Yes, Floyd has no loses and Oscar has 6. But I give Oscar a lot of credit for his loses because they were ALL to future HOFers and he did fight them. Floyd hasnt fought 6 Hall of Fame caliber fighters in his career. Oscar did lose those fights but my rational is to take them off his record and put them on a shelf for now.

Now, we have 39 wins per fighters so Im going to select their 15 biggest wins. Again, this is my opinion, but there is not much to argue here and these are in no particular order.

Oscar De La Hoya:
Julio Ceasar Chavez
Pernell Whittaker
Miguel Angel Gonzales
Ike Quartey
Fernando Vargas
Jorge Paez
John John Molina
Rafael Ruelas
Arturo Gatti
Genaro Hernandez
Hector Camacho
Jesse James Lieja
Oba Carr
Ricardo Mayorga
Javier Castillejo

Floyd Mayweather:
Oscar De La Hoya
Ricky Hatton
Diego Corrales
Jose Luis Castillo
Zab Judah
Arturo Gatti
Carlos Manuel Baldomir
Angel Manfredy
Sharmba Mitchell
Jesus Chavez
Carlos Hernandez
Phillip N'dou
Victoriano Sosa
DeMarcus Corley
Genaro Hernandez

Now, going back to Oscars loses. 3 of them are current champions and all top p4p fighters in the world (Hopkins, Pac, Mosley). The two others are Felix Trinidad and Floyd himself.

Floyd has never lost a fight. Is that a testement to his greatness or lack of worthy opposition? You be the judge. Both guys are undeniably among the best of recent times and it will be interesting to see how history remembers them.

I think Floyd's resume surpasses Oscars clearly. It's one thing fighting the best its another matter to beat them all.

And Floyd is hardly short of Hall of Fame fighters on his resume, Oscar, Hatton, Castillo and Coralles are all pretty much shoe ins and with the exception of Oscar Floyd fought them all in their primes.

I mean if its just about facing the best and being competitive then Tony Tucker must be an all time great heavyweight for taking both a prime Tyson and a prime Lennox Lewis the distance, he almost managed to hang until the final bell against a prime John Ruiz as well

Let me ask you this, If Floyd fought all of Oscars opposition under similar circumstances, do you think he would be 45-0? Or if Floyd had lost the decision to Castillo, a B+/A-fighter imo, wouldnt that loss be worse than any of Oscars loses with the exception of Pac? After all Oscar loses were all to the best of the best. The numbers dont mean much to me, undefeated, defeated 6 times, its about the substance behind the numbers for me. Also I dont think Castillo or Corrales are a shoe in for the hall at all, if it were up to me they would be though.

[JazMerkin]

Im gonna try to break this one down. Floyd is an unbelievably talented fighter, but his overall competition doesnt quite stack up to Oscars. Both men have 39 wins. Both were multi-division champions. Yes, Floyd has no loses and Oscar has 6. But I give Oscar a lot of credit for his loses because they were ALL to future HOFers and he did fight them. Floyd hasnt fought 6 Hall of Fame caliber fighters in his career. Oscar did lose those fights but my rational is to take them off his record and put them on a shelf for now.

Now, we have 39 wins per fighters so Im going to select their 15 biggest wins. Again, this is my opinion, but there is not much to argue here and these are in no particular order.

Oscar De La Hoya:
Julio Ceasar Chavez
Pernell Whittaker
Miguel Angel Gonzales
Ike Quartey
Fernando Vargas
Jorge Paez
John John Molina
Rafael Ruelas
Arturo Gatti
Genaro Hernandez
Hector Camacho
Jesse James Lieja
Oba Carr
Ricardo Mayorga
Javier Castillejo

Floyd Mayweather:
Oscar De La Hoya
Ricky Hatton
Diego Corrales
Jose Luis Castillo
Zab Judah
Arturo Gatti
Carlos Manuel Baldomir
Angel Manfredy
Sharmba Mitchell
Jesus Chavez
Carlos Hernandez
Phillip N'dou
Victoriano Sosa
DeMarcus Corley
Genaro Hernandez

Now, going back to Oscars loses. 3 of them are current champions and all top p4p fighters in the world (Hopkins, Pac, Mosley). The two others are Felix Trinidad and Floyd himself.

Floyd has never lost a fight. Is that a testement to his greatness or lack of worthy opposition? You be the judge. Both guys are undeniably among the best of recent times and it will be interesting to see how history remembers them.

I think Floyd's resume surpasses Oscars clearly. It's one thing fighting the best its another matter to beat them all.

And Floyd is hardly short of Hall of Fame fighters on his resume, Oscar, Hatton, Castillo and Coralles are all pretty much shoe ins and with the exception of Oscar Floyd fought them all in their primes.

I mean if its just about facing the best and being competitive then Tony Tucker must be an all time great heavyweight for taking both a prime Tyson and a prime Lennox Lewis the distance, he almost managed to hang until the final bell against a prime John Ruiz as well

Let me ask you this, If Floyd fought all of Oscars opposition under similar circumstances, do you think he would be 45-0? Or if Floyd had lost the decision to Castillo, a B+/A-fighter imo, wouldnt that loss be worse than any of Oscars loses with the exception of Pac? After all Oscar loses were all to the best of the best. The numbers dont mean much to me, undefeated, defeated 6 times, its about the substance behind the numbers for me. Also I dont think Castillo or Corrales are a shoe in for the hall at all, if it were up to me they would be though.

You could much more easily argue the same if Oscar had dropped a decision to either Quartey or Sturm. If you look at it in terms of fights that you might feel they should have won our lost, then to me Oscar falls more convincingly behind Floyd. If you're going off official decisions than you have to accept that Floyd beat Castillo, just as Oscar beat Whitaker, Quartey and Sturm. If we do it off our own interpretation of fight results we would have to write out our own lists. Also saying if Floyd fought all of his opposition in similar circumstances is deceptive because of their differing sizes. If Floyd was the size to fight guys like Trinidad, Sturm and Hopkins than I think he would be able to beat them (although I'm not saying he definitely would). The simple fact of how much bigger Oscar looked against Floyd negates arguments about the size of their opposition. Floyd wasn't even a huge super-featherweight, let alone a huge light-welter like Oscar was whilst he was at the weight.

[BoomBoom]

I know Floyd was a smaller man than Oscar throughout most of his career but I think your missing my point. He obviously wouldnt have fought Tito in 1999 or whenever Oscar fought him at Welter, but since most people agree that Floyd wasnt past his prime when he did fight at Welter, match them prime for prime. Or a prime Floyd at 135 against the guys Oscar fought at lightweight. Its all hypothetical, but any way you look at it Floyd would not be undefeated imo. If Oscar fought Floyds competition, in form, hypothetically, I wouldnt be surprised if he was undefeated either.

[BoomBoom]

And if Oscar had dropped a decision to Sturm or Quartey, it wouldnt be a bad loss given that Sturm was a undefeated and talented middleweight, and Quartey was an undefeated prime fighter. And I believe that Quartey at that time was a phenomenal fighter. Had Oscar beat Floyd, I would give him the benefit of the doubt in saying that Oscar was probably too big for him and not held that loss against him either.

[JazMerkin]

I know Floyd was a smaller man than Oscar throughout most of his career but I think your missing my point. He obviously wouldnt have fought Tito in 1999 or whenever Oscar fought him at Welter, but since most people agree that Floyd wasnt past his prime when he did fight at Welter, match them prime for prime. Or a prime Floyd at 135 against the guys Oscar fought at lightweight. Its all hypothetical, but any way you look at it Floyd would not be undefeated imo. If Oscar fought Floyds competition, in form, hypothetically, I wouldnt be surprised if he was undefeated either.

I think it's a bit much to say 'any way you look at it Floyd would not be undefeated'. I personally think Floyd could have outpointed Trinidad, by outboxing him similar to Hopkins did. Am I convinced that if Oscar faced the same height & reach disadvantages that Floyd did against Corrales, that he would have beaten him, no I'm not. But, its all hypothetical. If someone feels that Oscar has the better legacy fair enough, but when you start doing hypothetical fights it becomes hard to compare.

Also tbh, I think if you only look at fights below 147, apart from JCC who was old, I think Floyd has a significantly better legacy. Most of the great names on Oscar's resume come at 147 & above. Don't get me wrong, Oscar has a great legacy & he gets a really hard time from posters on here, but the fact is you can't pick and choose what to take into account in one form and not in the other (ie the Castillo/Quartey decisions).

[BoomBoom]

I agree with that, Its really impossible to say how either guy would have faired against someone they never fought conclusively. I just dont see more than a few great wins on Floyd resume. I dont rate Castillo or Corrales that high even thogh I liked them as fighters and were among my favorites. Though Coralles was an undefeated powerhouse at the time so that wa definately was a very good win. Id say Hatton and Oscar are probably his biggest wins. I have no problem that you think Floyd has a better legacy, thats your opinion and others feel the same way. Im just curious what your reasoning is. He is a multi division champion and he did beat every man in front of him, thats in the books. But did he fight the best in those divisions? I will say this, he was one of the greatest Super Featherweights ive ever seen, one of the best. A very good lightweight, a good light welterweight, and a good welterweight.

[JazMerkin]

I agree with that, Its really impossible to say how either guy would have faired against someone they never fought conclusively. I just dont see more than a few great wins on Floyd resume. I dont rate Castillo or Corrales that high even thogh I liked them as fighters and were among my favorites. Though Coralles was an undefeated powerhouse at the time so that wa definately was a very good win. Id say Hatton and Oscar are probably his biggest wins. I have no problem that you think Floyd has a better legacy, thats your opinion and others feel the same way. Im just curious what your reasoning is. He is a multi division champion and he did beat every man in front of him, thats in the books. But did he fight the best in those divisions? I will say this, he was one of the greatest Super Featherweights ive ever seen, one of the best. A very good lightweight, a good light welterweight, and a good welterweight.

I agree, for me his the best Super Feather there has been, but I can fully understand why people criticize him at higher weights, although to be honest, I think at lightweight and light-welter he can't be blamed for that. At lightweight he chased Mosley who wanted $10m, and the other guys who were at the top in the division, Castillo & Corrales he had already beaten, whilst at light-welter a fight was being set between him and Tszyu, only for Hatton to upset all that. I think at welter he fought all the guys who were at the top when he first got there, but then retired too quickly for some. Personally I would never criticize any fighter retiring, it's their prerogative. I think that he is only one fight away from having one of the greatest legacies, and whether that name is Marquez, Mosley or Cotto it doesn't matter to me.

With Oscar, the problem for me is he that before he got to welterweight, most of the guys he was fighting were blown up from lower weights, Ruelas excepted. Once he got to 147, I've got no criticisms, and he was possibly a great 140lber, but to me he couldn't physically stick around at the weights to prove it. His welterweight opposition and above is great though. I would have trouble pinpointing him as a legend at one particular weight though.

[richard (mossley)]

It has to be oscar, for christs sake, he beat Forbes. We never saw PBF do that.