Pac v Morales or Barrera - in their primes

[miron_lang]

This thread is tricky.

Let's define prime first. I thought barrera was in his prime when he first met pac. It was just after he schooled Naz.

It was about 2 and a half years later wasn't it?

Maybe but he's coming of dominating performances off Kevin Kelley and Johny Tapia. He was ranked #3 pound for pound the best in the world. You cant get anymore prime than that.

[BIG H]

Pac looks better than ever now. He had yet to reach his prime when this topic was started.

If he can score wins against them when not in his own prime then you'd have to say pomp-for-pomp Pac would beat both.

It's still really hard for me to say. I think MAB and Morales are the 2 closest matched fighters in history, I just can't split them.

The Morales that beat Pac was probably past his best, but the Pac that first fought Morales had nowhere reach his best and was just a one dimensional, one gameplan fighter.

I really don't know no who would win prime for prime btween Pac and either of those two. When I look at Morales v Barrera I, I wonder if Pac could live with that, but when I look at Pac v Barerra I, I think Pac probably just had his number - I dunno

[Fenster]

Pac looks better than ever now. He had yet to reach his prime when this topic was started.

If he can score wins against them when not in his own prime then you'd have to say pomp-for-pomp Pac would beat both.

It's still really hard for me to say. I think MAB and Morales are the 2 closest matched fighters in history, I just can't split them.

The Morales that beat Pac was probably past his best, but the Pac that first fought Morales had nowhere reach his best and was just a one dimensional, one gameplan fighter.

I really don't know no who would win prime for prime btween Pac and either of those two. When I look at Morales v Barrera I, I wonder if Pac could live with that, but when I look at Pac v Barerra I, I think Pac probably just had his number - I dunno

That's why i would definitely pick him now. He looks to have massively improved over the last couple of years. He clearly wasn't in his pomp back then. And the Morales loss was a close competitive one.

He has four wins from five fights and was yet to reach his prime. He has to be rated the better fighter.

[BIG H]

Pac looks better than ever now. He had yet to reach his prime when this topic was started.

If he can score wins against them when not in his own prime then you'd have to say pomp-for-pomp Pac would beat both.

It's still really hard for me to say. I think MAB and Morales are the 2 closest matched fighters in history, I just can't split them.

The Morales that beat Pac was probably past his best, but the Pac that first fought Morales had nowhere reach his best and was just a one dimensional, one gameplan fighter.

I really don't know no who would win prime for prime btween Pac and either of those two. When I look at Morales v Barrera I, I wonder if Pac could live with that, but when I look at Pac v Barerra I, I think Pac probably just had his number - I dunno

That's why i would definitely pick him now. He looks to have massively improved over the last couple of years. He clearly wasn't in his pomp back then. And the Morales loss was a close competitive one.

He has four wins from five fights and was yet to reach his prime. He has to be rated the better fighter.

You're probably right mate

[GAME]

Do you think Pac would've beaten either or both, had they been prime at the time of the fights.

I think Pac is p4p number on merit, but I don't think he would've beaten either MAB or EM in their primes

You can see how Morales dictated the fight in their first encounter, when he still had something left, I think both would've probably 'outboxed' him. WHADDAYOURECKON?

Nor do I

I think Pac is well matched it Marquez but Juan just edged both fights IMO.

[OumaFan]

As great as MAB was Pacquaio was just all wrong for him, he's already demolished a prime MAB, or at least a very close to prime MAB. I actually think MAB was closer to his prime in the first fight than Manny was as Manny's made a ton of improvements whereas MAB had already refined his style.

Morales might be a different thing. I don't think either of them were prime really for the first fight, or any of their fights. Granted this "prime" stuff is all a subjective thing and it can be twisted to suit anybody's agenda. But I think its a tougher matchup for Manny.

But out of the four Manny will go down as clearly the greatest in a historical sense unless JMM does something crazy in the next year or two. Pretty amazing what he's accomplished.

[Master]

1. EM
2. MAB
3. Manny Pac
4. JMM

[ICB]

Amazingly enough and work this one out, i know MAB was closer to his prime against Manny Pacquiao in there 1st fight. But he did have distractions which obviously affected him.

Because in there rematch when MAB was past his prime, he was able to frustrate Manny Pacquiao at times and i thought the fight was reasonably close after 9 rounds. And he did much better in the rematch against a prime Manny Pacquiao than he did against the one dimensional version.

So work that one out folks and i thought MAB fought the right fight against Manny Pacquiao, he just didn't make him pay enough with counters. Now lets put a prime MAB in that fight and i think the fight becomes pretty close.

As for Erik Morales i think its hard to tell IMO, Erik Morales clearly beat Manny Pacquiao in there 1st fight, when Erik Morales was past his prime and Manny Pacquiao hadn't reached his peak.

By the time the rematches come along Manny Pacquiao was improving, but Erik Morales was completely shot. Maybe not completely shot in the 2nd fight, but he was coming off a bad loss to Zahir Raheem, and i would say he wasn't far off from being completely shot.

So its hard to tell Manny Pacquiao never fought Erik Morales in his prime, and when Erik Morales did beat Manny Pacquiao he wasn't in his prime either. The smart money would say Manny Pacquiao by decision, but i don't know i think both of these fights are closer than people think.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Very harsh on Pac considering he beat them 4 out of 5 times.

I tend to agree though. The first Morales fight was a truer reflection of how they compare than the all of a sudden shot Morales of the rematch.

And Barrera showed enough second time to suggest, in his pomp, with a better preparation, the first Pac fight may well have been different.

Although i want to agree, i have to concede that Pacquiao is a much better fighter NOW than in the 1st Morales fight.

Alos, i don't think Barerra showed ANYTHING but over caution appropriately masked by a stoney façade