Haye vs Wlad Klitschko

[El Kabong]

Adam, you may not have questioned whether or not Haye touched the canvas BUT you definently questioned whether or not it was a knockdown and that is the crux of my argument it WAS a knockdown yes because Haye was off balance but moreso because he got hit, had Barrett missed that punch would Haye have been on the canvas? DOUBTFUL!

Wladimir has been able to learn from his mistakes because #1 he's a smart fighter it has been proven, he has learned from his mistakes because he has been put into similar situations and the outcomes have been different since his losses #2 he's got a Hall of Fame trainer and #3 Wladimir has a ton of experience boxing. Wladimir has had more fights than David Haye has ROUNDS when you compare their professional careers. Has David Haye learned anything from his wins over Maccarinelli or Barrett or Bonin Has he learned anything from his loss to Carl Thompson We simply don't know because he hasn't been tested that many times.

David Haye is impressive LOOKING, I can't say one way or the other if he's "the goods" or not simply because he has 23 total fights, 22 wins, 21 KO's, 1 loss by KO/TKO and very few of those fights were on the very highest level of boxing at cruiserweight and 0 of those 23 fights took place at a high level in the heavyweight division. Can David Haye win vs Wladimir? Sure he can, I don't doubt it for a second but take the time and look at David Haye as a total fighter and see the gap in experience....

Q: Can Haye box and win on points at a high level?

A: We don't know, we've never seen it, he's never been pushed to do that, and he has rarely had an opponent that could take him the distance.

Q: Can Wladimir Klitschko box and win on points at a high level?

A: Yes, Wladimir has only had to do that 6 times but vs: Prime Sam Peter, Prime Sultan Ibragimov, Prime Chris Byrd, Everett Martin in 1998, and Wlad has 2 Technical Decisions vs DaVarryl Williamson and Mark Young.

Q: Can David Haye KO a big skilled heavyweight?

A: We don't know, we've never seen him do that, he has never fought a big skilled heavyweight who hadn't already been KO'd by a questionable puncher.

Q: Can Wladimir Klitschko KO a big skilled heavyweight?

A: Yes there are a couple of guys Wlad KO'd who are big, skilled, and hadn't been KO'd before. Tony Thompson and Jameel McCline are two that come to mind and at the time they were very skilled.

Q: Can David Haye take a punch at heavyweight?

A: We don't know, he's never had to, and he hasn't been in with a heavyweight with decent punching power.

Q: Can Wladimir Klitschko take a punch at heavyweight?

A: If it's from a smaller heavyweight with less power perhaps, he has been hurt by: Sam Peter, Corrie Sanders, and Lamon Brewster all well respected power punchers. However, he has never been KO'd by just 1 punch, a fighter MUST follow up on Wladimir to stop him (of course his 3 losses show that very thing)

Q: Can David Haye handle adversity in the ring?

A: I sure as hell don't know, I've never seen him cut, I've rarely seen him fouled and he hasn't really shown much other than he CAN get up off the canvas and win a fight as he did vs: Mormeck and Barrett.

Q: Can Wladimir Klitschko handle adversity in the ring?

A: Yes, he has been cut before and has dealt with it with no issues and he has been knocked down before and not been bothered as much as he had been earlier in his career.

There's a lot about Haye that no one can answer until the actual fight. Wladimir has experience, size, strength, experience, and power over David Haye...that's not me bragging those are just the facts bro

[AdamGB]

Of course it's a lot less likely he would of been knocked off balance if nothing had knocked him whilst he was off balance!?...

my point is that it doesn't mean anything, I keep going over this...

It was a balance issue... technically it was a knockdown but not effectively. Your original post seemed to generalised it as if it was the same as the knockdowns Hatton recently suffered etc and that is what I took issue with.

You don't need to go off on a tangent about relevant experience/attributed of Wlad mate, I am talking about nothing more than this 'knockdown'. I've stated several times that I have Haye as an underdog in this fight for reasons similar to your own but with enough attributes (speed, mobility etc) to at least have a good fighting chance.

[El Kabong]

I am saying a lack of skill (balance/footwork) not the lack of a physical attribute (chin/ability to take a punch[which he has shown a lack of before]) led to Barrett hitting Haye and David Haye landing on his ass and I am saying that this lack of skill is not good when you are fighting a fighter with Wladimir's talent.

[pacman79]

Haye training to combat Wlad's weapons (video) | Setanta

[El Kabong]

I am not really impressed with what they showed with Haye's training. I mean sure Wlad has a long jab and it's good and all but it's him hooking off the jab that should worry Haye and his trainer.

What's the story with Adam Booth anyway? Is Haye his first big time fighter or has he worked with other fighters who have had good success??

[skel1983]

I am not really impressed with what they showed with Haye's training. I mean sure Wlad has a long jab and it's good and all but it's him hooking off the jab that should worry Haye and his trainer.

What's the story with Adam Booth anyway? Is Haye his first big time fighter or has he worked with other fighters who have had good success??

I think Booths background is all to do with physical training and nutrition, please someone correct me if im wrong, he might of had some sort of dealings with martial arts aswell. But he has been with Haye since he picked him up as an am when he was 16 years old. But im pretty certain Haye was his first project as a boxing trainor.

[JazMerkin]

The long jab on a stick is something that's been used at my gym Fitzroy Lodge for a while. Both Booth & Haye came out of here so I'm guessing someone's picked 'em up on it. It actually is surprisingly painful when you get caught in the face with, seen bloody noses & badly split lips from it, although ours is on the end of a thick wooden stick

[skel1983]

I seriously see Haye getting blasted out in this fight.

[leftylee]

Adam, you may not have questioned whether or not Haye touched the canvas BUT you definently questioned whether or not it was a knockdown and that is the crux of my argument it WAS a knockdown yes because Haye was off balance but moreso because he got hit, had Barrett missed that punch would Haye have been on the canvas? DOUBTFUL!

Wladimir has been able to learn from his mistakes because #1 he's a smart fighter it has been proven, he has learned from his mistakes because he has been put into similar situations and the outcomes have been different since his losses #2 he's got a Hall of Fame trainer and #3 Wladimir has a ton of experience boxing. Wladimir has had more fights than David Haye has ROUNDS when you compare their professional careers. Has David Haye learned anything from his wins over Maccarinelli or Barrett or Bonin Has he learned anything from his loss to Carl Thompson We simply don't know because he hasn't been tested that many times.

David Haye is impressive LOOKING, I can't say one way or the other if he's "the goods" or not simply because he has 23 total fights, 22 wins, 21 KO's, 1 loss by KO/TKO and very few of those fights were on the very highest level of boxing at cruiserweight and 0 of those 23 fights took place at a high level in the heavyweight division. Can David Haye win vs Wladimir? Sure he can, I don't doubt it for a second but take the time and look at David Haye as a total fighter and see the gap in experience....

Q: Can Haye box and win on points at a high level?

A: We don't know, we've never seen it, he's never been pushed to do that, and he has rarely had an opponent that could take him the distance.

Q: Can Wladimir Klitschko box and win on points at a high level?

A: Yes, Wladimir has only had to do that 6 times but vs: Prime Sam Peter, Prime Sultan Ibragimov, Prime Chris Byrd, Everett Martin in 1998, and Wlad has 2 Technical Decisions vs DaVarryl Williamson and Mark Young.

Q: Can David Haye KO a big skilled heavyweight?

A: We don't know, we've never seen him do that, he has never fought a big skilled heavyweight who hadn't already been KO'd by a questionable puncher.

Q: Can Wladimir Klitschko KO a big skilled heavyweight?

A: Yes there are a couple of guys Wlad KO'd who are big, skilled, and hadn't been KO'd before. Tony Thompson and Jameel McCline are two that come to mind and at the time they were very skilled.

Q: Can David Haye take a punch at heavyweight?

A: We don't know, he's never had to, and he hasn't been in with a heavyweight with decent punching power.

Q: Can Wladimir Klitschko take a punch at heavyweight?

A: If it's from a smaller heavyweight with less power perhaps, he has been hurt by: Sam Peter, Corrie Sanders, and Lamon Brewster all well respected power punchers. However, he has never been KO'd by just 1 punch, a fighter MUST follow up on Wladimir to stop him (of course his 3 losses show that very thing)

Q: Can David Haye handle adversity in the ring?

A: I sure as hell don't know, I've never seen him cut, I've rarely seen him fouled and he hasn't really shown much other than he CAN get up off the canvas and win a fight as he did vs: Mormeck and Barrett.

Q: Can Wladimir Klitschko handle adversity in the ring?

A: Yes, he has been cut before and has dealt with it with no issues and he has been knocked down before and not been bothered as much as he had been earlier in his career.

There's a lot about Haye that no one can answer until the actual fight. Wladimir has experience, size, strength, experience, and power over David Haye...that's not me bragging those are just the facts bro

I stopped reading when you said "I have never seen David Haye cut". Watch the Maccarinelli fight for one.

Also labeling Tony Thompson as a skilled fighter is an insult to boxing.

[El Kabong]

I stopped reading when you said "I have never seen David Haye cut". Watch the Maccarinelli fight for one.

Also labeling Tony Thompson as a skilled fighter is an insult to boxing.

Oh, I'm sorry I forgot Haye got cut in the Maccarinelli fight, it must have really had a chance to bother him as the fight went TWO FUCKING ROUNDS!!!! Be serious.

Tony Thompson IS a skilled fighter, he isn't powerful with his punches but IMO he's skilled enough to beat any number of top rated heavyweights. He battered Luan Krasniqi and that's decent, he outboxed Guinn and Timor Ibragimov, but the reason Thompson isn't able to really make a name for himself is because he's 6'6 about 250 pounds and he's a southpaw....nobody wants to fight that. Who out there right now (bar Wladimir) would you give a chance to beat Thompson David Haye? We don't know much about Haye or how he'd handle that style, sure you can say he'd do well but Haye hasn't been in with a guy that big with that good of a chin and yeah he has a very good chin. Sam Peter, Cris Arreola, Ruslan Chagaev, Nicolay Valuev, Alexander Povetkin, Alexander Dimitrenko...I think Thompson could beat at least half of those guys.

I wish David Haye fought an elimination bout vs Alexander Povetkin before fighting Wladimir...I mean if Wladimir KO's him in 1 round then everyone will say "He's a nobody, he hasn't beaten anyone, he only had 2 heavyweight fights, he's only beaten Monte Barrett and Tomaz Bonin" had Haye actually beaten a "live body" instead of some tomato can then MAYBE I'd feel better about his chances....that's not me being a Klitschko fan, that's me being a boxing fan.