Lyle sets the heavyweight division straight

[leftylee]

David Haye is the saviour. Nothing more, nothing less.

....OK we get it you love David Haye, enough already.

I'm talking about the WHOLE division, what good is David Haye if he has nobody to fight? Sure I feel Haye is going to get KO'd but if he was to win would the division be better off? Would it be different? Only if he beat Valuev or Chagaev who have shown no intrest in fighting anyone good. The WBA fighters are in a seperate division unto themselves, it is ridiculous. But David Haye on his own is nothing, he represents no change, no excitement worldwide (excitement perhaps for the UK but not for anyone else), and if he just continues to do what the rest of the division does then he's about as handy as Audley Harrison.

David Haye is at least in shape and he is a KO fighter...but he's not American (which would really help out the division as far as broad appeal), he's not undefeated, and really he hasn't proven he's a true heavyweight yet either.

And I know I'll catch shit about talking about America and how America needs a top heavyweight who can punch, but hey there are 300 million people in America vs maybe like 50 million in England.

Of course it would be better if Haye beat Bitchsko. Haye wouldn't be booed out of the arena and send people to sleep. He would add charisma, power and speed to the divison and get it more talked about. Nobody wants to see Wladimir Klitchsko throwing that jab with the occasional right every few rounds en route to a boring win. David Haye will come out swinging and will get people on the edge of the seats. He won't mess around in there.

And why would it help if Haye was American ? All American fighters are useless and fat. Look at Arreola. He must be carrying at least 30 pounds of excess fat. Tony Thompson ? The pussy cat who went down like a sack of shiit against Klitchsko. Eddie Chambers ? He calls himself fast ? please.

[ono]

You'd think a few more fighters would have the intelligence to think 'hey if i show up in shape i could really give this division a good go!'

It's not that tough a division, it's the most prestigous division in the sport but it seems nobody wants to put the work in to fully claim it other than the Clits and Haye. Makes no sense.

[Wayne]

Boxing has slit its own throat in some respects. MMA has enjoyed its (re)surgence simply because boxing hasn't been what it could have for many of the reasons Lyle has mentioned. The powers that be are the main ones who are corrupt and they would never want a boxing league. That would require them to be transparent in many respects and be accountable for their actions. As it stands the alphabet titles can make anyone a #1 contender, hell, they can strip the champ and give the belt to anyone they feel like. Their rules aren't reinforced by law. You can sue them if they screw you, but even if you win, but they'll only screw you again by erasing you from the rankings if you ever lose the belt. A boxing league would mean a paycheck for everybody who was in it, but it would also spread out the fights. Think about weekly fights on ABC, NBC, Versus and the bigger fights bumping up to HBO. Sound nice? Never happen. It would require HBO and Showtime to swallow some fights they wouldn't want, regardless of them winding up being good fights.

The best idea I think would be to follow UFC's foot steps. A promoter created league on a channel just aching for programming. Sign some guys to exclusively fight for you in this league on this channel. As guys see these fighters get more exposure (partly because they fight more often) and have their PPV fights do actual numbers even more guys will jump on board. It could blow up in the promoter's face as most of these fighters would probably suck considering the good fighters don't need to hem themselves up, but if it worked the good fighters would come because they wouldn't have to pay a sanctioning body to eventually fight for a title. There could be rankings that made actual sense and was fair to everyone involved.

I would love to see an Emmanuel Steward trained Travis Walker. The guys got everything exciting about a fighter. Great power, physique and a crackable chin. If Steward could teach him to be somewhat of a chess player like Lewis he could go far.

[HattonTheHammer]

Boxing has slit its own throat in some respects. MMA has enjoyed its (re)surgence simply because boxing hasn't been what it could have for many of the reasons Lyle has mentioned. The powers that be are the main ones who are corrupt and they would never want a boxing league. That would require them to be transparent in many respects and be accountable for their actions. As it stands the alphabet titles can make anyone a #1 contender, hell, they can strip the champ and give the belt to anyone they feel like. Their rules aren't reinforced by law. You can sue them if they screw you, but even if you win, but they'll only screw you again by erasing you from the rankings if you ever lose the belt. A boxing league would mean a paycheck for everybody who was in it, but it would also spread out the fights. Think about weekly fights on ABC, NBC, Versus and the bigger fights bumping up to HBO. Sound nice? Never happen. It would require HBO and Showtime to swallow some fights they wouldn't want, regardless of them winding up being good fights.

The best idea I think would be to follow UFC's foot steps. A promoter created league on a channel just aching for programming. Sign some guys to exclusively fight for you in this league on this channel. As guys see these fighters get more exposure (partly because they fight more often) and have their PPV fights do actual numbers even more guys will jump on board. It could blow up in the promoter's face as most of these fighters would probably suck considering the good fighters don't need to hem themselves up, but if it worked the good fighters would come because they wouldn't have to pay a sanctioning body to eventually fight for a title. There could be rankings that made actual sense and was fair to everyone involved.

I would love to see an Emmanuel Steward trained Travis Walker. The guys got everything exciting about a fighter. Great power, physique and a crackable chin. If Steward could teach him to be somewhat of a chess player like Lewis he could go far.

To be fair with every one success steward has had ie:lewis he has gone on to have another 7-8 failures.

The training of heavyweight fighters is no different to every other division.

As ive already said boxing needs a resurgent of american heavyweights if the division is to make a rise from the ashes.

[Wayne]

Boxing has slit its own throat in some respects. MMA has enjoyed its (re)surgence simply because boxing hasn't been what it could have for many of the reasons Lyle has mentioned. The powers that be are the main ones who are corrupt and they would never want a boxing league. That would require them to be transparent in many respects and be accountable for their actions. As it stands the alphabet titles can make anyone a #1 contender, hell, they can strip the champ and give the belt to anyone they feel like. Their rules aren't reinforced by law. You can sue them if they screw you, but even if you win, but they'll only screw you again by erasing you from the rankings if you ever lose the belt. A boxing league would mean a paycheck for everybody who was in it, but it would also spread out the fights. Think about weekly fights on ABC, NBC, Versus and the bigger fights bumping up to HBO. Sound nice? Never happen. It would require HBO and Showtime to swallow some fights they wouldn't want, regardless of them winding up being good fights.

The best idea I think would be to follow UFC's foot steps. A promoter created league on a channel just aching for programming. Sign some guys to exclusively fight for you in this league on this channel. As guys see these fighters get more exposure (partly because they fight more often) and have their PPV fights do actual numbers even more guys will jump on board. It could blow up in the promoter's face as most of these fighters would probably suck considering the good fighters don't need to hem themselves up, but if it worked the good fighters would come because they wouldn't have to pay a sanctioning body to eventually fight for a title. There could be rankings that made actual sense and was fair to everyone involved.

I would love to see an Emmanuel Steward trained Travis Walker. The guys got everything exciting about a fighter. Great power, physique and a crackable chin. If Steward could teach him to be somewhat of a chess player like Lewis he could go far.

To be fair with every one success steward has had ie:lewis he has gone on to have another 7-8 failures.

The training of heavyweight fighters is no different to every other division.

As ive already said boxing needs a resurgent of american heavyweights if the division is to make a rise from the ashes.

Very true, but to be fairest, most guys who lace them up quit. And also some guys just don't mesh (Taylor-Steward, Cintron-Steward, Dawson-Mayweather). I mean that if a fighter has 'it' inside him, a trainer of Steward's caliber can bring it out if they have the right cynergy. And Manny isn't the only guy who could do it, he just so happens to be the trainer that came to mind who has a proven track record with heavyweight fighters. Steward knows how to play to a fighter's strengths. I remember he even trained Tye Fields for a time and the first time I saw him I thought the guy was studly-looking, but he was awfully awkward. But Steward had him do the right things for him to win (ie, jab all night until the end of the last round).

[HattonTheHammer]

Boxing has slit its own throat in some respects. MMA has enjoyed its (re)surgence simply because boxing hasn't been what it could have for many of the reasons Lyle has mentioned. The powers that be are the main ones who are corrupt and they would never want a boxing league. That would require them to be transparent in many respects and be accountable for their actions. As it stands the alphabet titles can make anyone a #1 contender, hell, they can strip the champ and give the belt to anyone they feel like. Their rules aren't reinforced by law. You can sue them if they screw you, but even if you win, but they'll only screw you again by erasing you from the rankings if you ever lose the belt. A boxing league would mean a paycheck for everybody who was in it, but it would also spread out the fights. Think about weekly fights on ABC, NBC, Versus and the bigger fights bumping up to HBO. Sound nice? Never happen. It would require HBO and Showtime to swallow some fights they wouldn't want, regardless of them winding up being good fights.

The best idea I think would be to follow UFC's foot steps. A promoter created league on a channel just aching for programming. Sign some guys to exclusively fight for you in this league on this channel. As guys see these fighters get more exposure (partly because they fight more often) and have their PPV fights do actual numbers even more guys will jump on board. It could blow up in the promoter's face as most of these fighters would probably suck considering the good fighters don't need to hem themselves up, but if it worked the good fighters would come because they wouldn't have to pay a sanctioning body to eventually fight for a title. There could be rankings that made actual sense and was fair to everyone involved.

I would love to see an Emmanuel Steward trained Travis Walker. The guys got everything exciting about a fighter. Great power, physique and a crackable chin. If Steward could teach him to be somewhat of a chess player like Lewis he could go far.

To be fair with every one success steward has had ie:lewis he has gone on to have another 7-8 failures.

The training of heavyweight fighters is no different to every other division.

As ive already said boxing needs a resurgent of american heavyweights if the division is to make a rise from the ashes.

Very true, but to be fairest, most guys who lace them up quit. And also some guys just don't mesh (Taylor-Steward, Cintron-Steward, Dawson-Mayweather). I mean that if a fighter has 'it' inside him, a trainer of Steward's caliber can bring it out if they have the right cynergy. And Manny isn't the only guy who could do it, he just so happens to be the trainer that came to mind who has a proven track record with heavyweight fighters. Steward knows how to play to a fighter's strengths. I remember he even trained Tye Fields for a time and the first time I saw him I thought the guy was studly-looking, but he was awfully awkward. But Steward had him do the right things for him to win (ie, jab all night until the end of the last round).

A perfect trainer/fighter relationship can strike gold ive always believed that.

Hatton came a croper the second he left graham a completely unastablished trainer before hatton as i suspect pavlik will the second he leaves loew.

[Drago]

this looks like an interesting thread, promise will read all when get chance

[ono]

Boxing has slit its own throat in some respects. MMA has enjoyed its (re)surgence simply because boxing hasn't been what it could have for many of the reasons Lyle has mentioned. The powers that be are the main ones who are corrupt and they would never want a boxing league. That would require them to be transparent in many respects and be accountable for their actions. As it stands the alphabet titles can make anyone a #1 contender, hell, they can strip the champ and give the belt to anyone they feel like. Their rules aren't reinforced by law. You can sue them if they screw you, but even if you win, but they'll only screw you again by erasing you from the rankings if you ever lose the belt. A boxing league would mean a paycheck for everybody who was in it, but it would also spread out the fights. Think about weekly fights on ABC, NBC, Versus and the bigger fights bumping up to HBO. Sound nice? Never happen. It would require HBO and Showtime to swallow some fights they wouldn't want, regardless of them winding up being good fights.

The best idea I think would be to follow UFC's foot steps. A promoter created league on a channel just aching for programming. Sign some guys to exclusively fight for you in this league on this channel. As guys see these fighters get more exposure (partly because they fight more often) and have their PPV fights do actual numbers even more guys will jump on board. It could blow up in the promoter's face as most of these fighters would probably suck considering the good fighters don't need to hem themselves up, but if it worked the good fighters would come because they wouldn't have to pay a sanctioning body to eventually fight for a title. There could be rankings that made actual sense and was fair to everyone involved.

I would love to see an Emmanuel Steward trained Travis Walker. The guys got everything exciting about a fighter. Great power, physique and a crackable chin. If Steward could teach him to be somewhat of a chess player like Lewis he could go far.

To be fair with every one success steward has had ie:lewis he has gone on to have another 7-8 failures.

The training of heavyweight fighters is no different to every other division.

As ive already said boxing needs a resurgent of american heavyweights if the division is to make a rise from the ashes.

Hmm i only think they have to be American if you actually live in America. Like i live in the UK so to me it doesn't matter personally where a fighter is from...and the UFC idea won't really take off unless the fighters actually get into shape. It's been said before, nobody wants to see Arreola and his titties fighting a journeyman with even bigger titties. Even then you're basically running an extended version of the contender and these fighter will still get found out at the top by the eastern block fighters. It's a nice idea on paper to have a boxing league but we all know who would dominate - it would be the same fighters who dominate now. The guys who are the better schooled, take less risks and show up in much better shape.

I understand about capturing the publics attention but David Haye is quite capable of doing if he gets to fight in the states. He won't by the way because he won't get past both Clits. I'd be surprised if he gets past Wlad to be honest.

Point is so long as the fighter gets to show his skills and charisma on the biggest stage...wherever that may be, it doesn't matter what nationality he is. The thing is, it needs more than just one fighter. One dominant US heavyweight will not capture public attention if all his possible opponents are stiffs.

The heavyweight division might not appear to thriving outside of europe but i reckon if you asked a few eastern europeans they would struggle to say anything bad about it. With David Haye willing to travel across Europe and the Cubans signing wtih Arena (i think it is) we might just have to accept that if the heavyweight scene is going to thrive in the future, it will thrive in Europe...mainly Germany.

[Gandalf]

You have all lost your minds. James Toney is clearly the future of the heavyweight division. A fight against Monte Barrett and he can then take his pick of any of the champions.

[Dark Lord Al]

You have all lost your minds. James Toney is clearly the future of the heavyweight division. A fight against Monte Barrett and he can then take his pick of any of the champions.

OH YOU BITCH MILES LOL , PUT DOWN THAT WOODEN SPOON

[The Fightfan]

Jesus Christ people a decent talk about the heavies turn into how much of a bitch the Klitschko's are and Haye the Saviour will save it all. After Klitschko knock's Haye out we will get an even more clearer picture on who the master of the division is. Only when these two retire will we respect them and realize they were the best of this era. I believe there will be a big up and comer soon in heavies it's just a down period now. Someone will step-up and it sure as shit won't be no Haye.

[El Kabong]

Of course it would be better if Haye beat Bitchsko. Haye wouldn't be booed out of the arena and send people to sleep. He would add charisma, power and speed to the divison and get it more talked about. Nobody wants to see Wladimir Klitchsko throwing that jab with the occasional right every few rounds en route to a boring win. David Haye will come out swinging and will get people on the edge of the seats. He won't mess around in there.

And why would it help if Haye was American ? All American fighters are useless and fat. Look at Arreola. He must be carrying at least 30 pounds of excess fat. Tony Thompson ? The pussy cat who went down like a sack of shiit against Klitchsko. Eddie Chambers ? He calls himself fast ? please.

Listen, lefty...EVERYONE on Saddoboxing knows that you love some David Haye and that you think he's the greatest fighter ever but this thread is about the ENTIRE heavyweight division and not just one fighter and the point I am trying to make to you but you are too dense to understand it is that if Haye does the impossible and wins and he doesn't have anyone new or in shape to fight then the division as a whole will continue to suck and sure you would be happy Haye won and would be champ but it would get old after a couple title defenses vs the likes of Eddie Chambers, Oleg Maskaev, and Denis Boytsov.

Also lefty, if you make one more post that is ONLY about David Haye and how he's the greatest, I will neg rep the shit out of you, and ask the Mods to remove you from this thread (hopefully they will heed my call). You hunt me down where ever I post and no matter what it's about (music, movies, politics) you bring up David fucking Haye...I don't give a fuck about David Haye and the fact you keep bringing him up all the God damn time just makes me want to see Haye repeatedly KO'd in the worst manner possible....and the sad thing is, if you weren't such a twat about it maybe I could appreciate David Haye, but thanks to you that is out of the question.

But back to the topic at hand, I think there are lots of exciting matchups to be made in the division, but the lack of "brand name" fighters has really hurt the heavyweights more than any other division. The loss of Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, and Bowe at the top of the heap have really left the division reeling. The other weight classes constantly have fighters shuffling in and out and since there is a constant flow of new fighters or fighters new to a weight class, you don't get the stagnant feel of the heavyweight division where the only guys that come up are cruiserweights and light heavyweights and RARELY do they ever have an impact on the division and you have guys like John Ruiz, Andrew Golota, and Oleg Maskaev getting multiple title shots when fresher heavyweights (Dimitrenko, Povetkin, Arreola, et al) could more than likely beat the shit out of those old guys. The fact that the division is the proverbial "end of the line" and cruiserweight is soooooo bad (we have had good cruiserweight fighters in the heavyweight division but the cruiserweight division as a whole constantly sucks) hurts the division.

[leftylee]

Of course it would be better if Haye beat Bitchsko. Haye wouldn't be booed out of the arena and send people to sleep. He would add charisma, power and speed to the divison and get it more talked about. Nobody wants to see Wladimir Klitchsko throwing that jab with the occasional right every few rounds en route to a boring win. David Haye will come out swinging and will get people on the edge of the seats. He won't mess around in there.

And why would it help if Haye was American ? All American fighters are useless and fat. Look at Arreola. He must be carrying at least 30 pounds of excess fat. Tony Thompson ? The pussy cat who went down like a sack of shiit against Klitchsko. Eddie Chambers ? He calls himself fast ? please.

Listen, lefty...EVERYONE on Saddoboxing knows that you love some David Haye and that you think he's the greatest fighter ever but this thread is about the ENTIRE heavyweight division and not just one fighter and the point I am trying to make to you but you are too dense to understand it is that if Haye does the impossible and wins and he doesn't have anyone new or in shape to fight then the division as a whole will continue to suck and sure you would be happy Haye won and would be champ but it would get old after a couple title defenses vs the likes of Eddie Chambers, Oleg Maskaev, and Denis Boytsov.

Also lefty, if you make one more post that is ONLY about David Haye and how he's the greatest, I will neg rep the shit out of you, and ask the Mods to remove you from this thread (hopefully they will heed my call). You hunt me down where ever I post and no matter what it's about (music, movies, politics) you bring up David fucking Haye...I don't give a fuck about David Haye and the fact you keep bringing him up all the God damn time just makes me want to see Haye repeatedly KO'd in the worst manner possible....and the sad thing is, if you weren't such a twat about it maybe I could appreciate David Haye, but thanks to you that is out of the question.

But back to the topic at hand, I think there are lots of exciting matchups to be made in the division, but the lack of "brand name" fighters has really hurt the heavyweights more than any other division. The loss of Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, and Bowe at the top of the heap have really left the division reeling. The other weight classes constantly have fighters shuffling in and out and since there is a constant flow of new fighters or fighters new to a weight class, you don't get the stagnant feel of the heavyweight division where the only guys that come up are cruiserweights and light heavyweights and RARELY do they ever have an impact on the division and you have guys like John Ruiz, Andrew Golota, and Oleg Maskaev getting multiple title shots when fresher heavyweights (Dimitrenko, Povetkin, Arreola, et al) could more than likely beat the shit out of those old guys. The fact that the division is the proverbial "end of the line" and cruiserweight is soooooo bad (we have had good cruiserweight fighters in the heavyweight division but the cruiserweight division as a whole constantly sucks) hurts the division.

Go for it, see if I care. Go bitch ass to the mods. Didn't know that was the American culture. And I'll keep going on about Haye over and over until June 20th and ALL the time afterwards when he destroys the fukking shiit out of Bitchsko. Damn I can't wait.

[El Kabong]

Can you not leave me alone in any thread?? I asked nicely, I explained in a manner so that even a borderline retard such as yourself could understand

This thread isn't an invitation for you to post about your boyfriend David Haye whom I might add has done absolutely jack shit in the heavyweight division. Pack up your dollies and go home....this thread was meant for the SERIOUS boxing fans and not little Kool Aid drinkers like yourself.....don't cry to hard when Haye boxing's FALSE IDOL gets knocked the fuck out.

Haye didn't work his way to the top, he hasn't sacrificed in the ring, and he doesn't have the heart much less the skill to compete with Wladimir.



Anyway, back on topic....

[BIG H]

Of course it would be better if Haye beat Bitchsko. Haye wouldn't be booed out of the arena and send people to sleep. He would add charisma, power and speed to the divison and get it more talked about. Nobody wants to see Wladimir Klitchsko throwing that jab with the occasional right every few rounds en route to a boring win. David Haye will come out swinging and will get people on the edge of the seats. He won't mess around in there.

And why would it help if Haye was American ? All American fighters are useless and fat. Look at Arreola. He must be carrying at least 30 pounds of excess fat. Tony Thompson ? The pussy cat who went down like a sack of shiit against Klitchsko. Eddie Chambers ? He calls himself fast ? please.

Listen, lefty...EVERYONE on Saddoboxing knows that you love some David Haye and that you think he's the greatest fighter ever but this thread is about the ENTIRE heavyweight division and not just one fighter and the point I am trying to make to you but you are too dense to understand it is that if Haye does the impossible and wins and he doesn't have anyone new or in shape to fight then the division as a whole will continue to suck and sure you would be happy Haye won and would be champ but it would get old after a couple title defenses vs the likes of Eddie Chambers, Oleg Maskaev, and Denis Boytsov.

Also lefty, if you make one more post that is ONLY about David Haye and how he's the greatest,I will neg rep the shit out of you, and ask the Mods to remove you from this thread(hopefully they will heed my call). You hunt me down where ever I post and no matter what it's about (music, movies, politics) you bring up David fucking Haye...I don't give a fuck about David Haye and the fact you keep bringing him up all the God damn time just makes me want to see Haye repeatedly KO'd in the worst manner possible....and the sad thing is, if you weren't such a twat about it maybe I could appreciate David Haye, but thanks to you that is out of the question.

But back to the topic at hand, I think there are lots of exciting matchups to be made in the division, but the lack of "brand name" fighters has really hurt the heavyweights more than any other division. The loss of Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, and Bowe at the top of the heap have really left the division reeling. The other weight classes constantly have fighters shuffling in and out and since there is a constant flow of new fighters or fighters new to a weight class, you don't get the stagnant feel of the heavyweight division where the only guys that come up are cruiserweights and light heavyweights and RARELY do they ever have an impact on the division and you have guys like John Ruiz, Andrew Golota, and Oleg Maskaev getting multiple title shots when fresher heavyweights (Dimitrenko, Povetkin, Arreola, et al) could more than likely beat the shit out of those old guys. The fact that the division is the proverbial "end of the line" and cruiserweight is soooooo bad (we have had good cruiserweight fighters in the heavyweight division but the cruiserweight division as a whole constantly sucks) hurts the division.

Go for it, see if I care. Go bitch ass to the mods. Didn't know that was the American culture. And I'll keep going on about Haye over and over until June 20th and ALL the time afterwards when he destroys the fukking shiit out of Bitchsko. Damn I can't wait.

Clean it up please fella - this is on the main board