Can you be an all time great if your best win is against Jeff Lacy?

[Hunter]

I dont think either Joe Calzaghe or Kostya Tszyu are all time great fighters.

Discuss.

[LEGION]

I dont think either Joe Calzaghe or Kostya Tszyu are all time great fighters.

Discuss.

Here we go again


Turning that horse into a bottle of glue

[ElTerribleMorales]

I think beating Jeff Lacy, Mikkel Kessler, A still very good Bernard Hopkins, World champions such as Eubank, Woodhall, Reid, Mitchell & Brewer and remaining undefeated for 15 years would give you at least an equal claim as somebody who got banged out by a veteran Vince Philips

many think B-Hop beat him, Eubank was old and shot, many feel that even Reid beat Calzaghe, he remained undefeated for 15 yrs, cause he took on fighters like Peter Manfredo, and refused to take on the best while they were the best, for example Roy Jones, the bigger name, and Calzaghe didn't make an effort to get the fight until Jones was shot, hardly make Calzaghe an all time great

I dont think either Joe Calzaghe or Kostya Tszyu are all time great fighters.

Discuss.

same here, i'd say that both were the best in their respective divisions, but both had pretty weak divisions (and i'm saying this after re-watching and analysing most of Tszyu's big wins), both were very good fighters, i'd hardly say great

[OumaFan]

Calzaghe is an all time great, Kostya Tsyzu I don't think so.

[Hunter]

Calzaghe is an all time great, Kostya Tsyzu I don't think so.

I dont consider Joe Cal an all time great but he is definitley closer than Kostya.

[Spicoli]

Ive never really thought about Tsypko in that way.....but now that you mention it......

ElTerrible, thats a great sigi !

[Beanflicker]

Its funny how bad the memory of the average boxing fan is. I remember a time, pre-Hatton fight, when Kostya was talked about being up there with JCC and Pryor among the best 140lbers of all time. Now the poor guy isn't even a great fighter.

[Nameless]

Calzaghe is an all time great, Kostya Tsyzu I don't think so.

I dont consider Joe Cal an all time great but he is definitley closer than Kostya.

Well, I have to disagree there, never lost, close to Marciano's record, schooled the Viking Kessler, which nobody has see coming (for the schooling, not the win), won against B-Hop... you have to place him with the all time greats even if might not be on the top of the top.

[ICB]

Calzaghe is an all time great, Kostya Tsyzu I don't think so.

I dont consider Joe Cal an all time great but he is definitley closer than Kostya.

Well, I have to disagree there, never lost, close to Marciano's record, schooled the Viking Kessler, which nobody has see coming (for the schooling, not the win), won against B-Hop... you have to place him with the all time greats even if might not be on the top of the top.

Yes i agree Mikkel Kessler is a good win on his belt, but Mikkel Kessler isn't as great as some people make out. He won IMO a very close decision to Anthony Mundine, which is his best win. A fighter that hasn't stepped up in class for years.

And to be honest the Super Middleweight is stronger now than it was a few years ago, when Mikkel Kessler was ruling. And Mikkel Kessler hasn't stepped up since losing to Joe Calzaghe. So we actually don't know how good Mikkel Kessler really is yet.

Because the only really elite opponent he has fought is Joe Calzaghe, Librado Andrade is a goodish fighter but is one dimensional, and Anthony Mundine is a good fighter. But not really elite either, and he hasn't stepped up in years.

I actually didn't think Joe Calzaghe beat Bernard Hopkins, i thought he lost by one point. Yes Bernard Hopkins is still very good at 43. But i have no doubt in my mind that the Bernard Hopkins, that took Glen Johnson apart, or took Felix Trinidad apart, would beat Joe Calzaghe IMO.

I think Joe Calzaghe is a very good champion, but despite all his achievements. I honestly just don't see him as an ATG. But thats just my opinion.

[BIG H]

I dont consider Joe Cal an all time great but he is definitley closer than Kostya.

Well, I have to disagree there, never lost, close to Marciano's record, schooled the Viking Kessler, which nobody has see coming (for the schooling, not the win), won against B-Hop... you have to place him with the all time greats even if might not be on the top of the top.

Yes i agree Mikkel Kessler is a good win on his belt, but Mikkel Kessler isn't as great as some people make out. He won IMO a very close decision to Anthony Mundine, which is his best win. A fighter that hasn't stepped up in class for years.

And to be honest the Super Middleweight is stronger now than it was a few years ago, when Mikkel Kessler was ruling. And Mikkel Kessler hasn't stepped up since losing to Joe Calzaghe. So we actually don't know how good Mikkel Kessler really is yet.

Because the only really elite opponent he has fought is Joe Calzaghe, Librado Andrade is a goodish fighter but is one dimensional, and Anthony Mundine is a good fighter. But not really elite either, and he hasn't stepped up in years.

I actually didn't think Joe Calzaghe beat Bernard Hopkins, i thought he lost by one point. Yes Bernard Hopkins is still very good at 43. But i have no doubt in my mind that the Bernard Hopkins, that took Glen Johnson apart, or took Felix Trinidad apart, would beat Joe Calzaghe IMO.

I think Joe Calzaghe is a very good champion, but despite all his achievements. I honestly just don't see him as an ATG. But thats just my opinion.

You may be right, but remember neith JC or Nard were at their peak. Picture the Hopkins you mention above against the Calzaghe that fought Lacy, that' a better comparison

[Memphis]

Sorry, should have quoted. This is in reply to ICB's post about Kessler not being as good as people claim....

The thing is though thats how you stray into slagging off everyone territory. Theres always some reason to discredit anything or anyone.

Lacy WAS the man to beat, everyone wanted Joe to fight him, he did, and took him apart.

Kessler WAS the man to beat, everyone wanted Joe to fight him, he did and to a lesser extent gave him a boxing education too.



That, for me is more important than who their W's came againt and what has happened to them since.

[Kel]

Calzaghe is an all time great, Kostya Tsyzu I don't think so.

Well the thing with Kostya is that after he first lost as a pro he came back and unified all the belts by fighting the best guys in his division. We don't know if Joe could have come back from a loss in such a way and never will and we know he never fought the best in his division.

Joe has a good record and retired unbeaten but I'd say coming back from a loss and dominating the division is just as great.

[ono]

Calzaghe is an all time great, Kostya Tsyzu I don't think so.

Well the thing with Kostya is that after he first lost as a pro he came back and unified all the belts by fighting the best guys in his division. We don't know if Joe could have come back from a loss in such a way and never will and we know he never fought the best in his division.

Joe has a good record and retired unbeaten but I'd say coming back from a loss and dominating the division is just as great.

But surely it's better to not have lost in the first place. It's a baffling logic that i hear all the time. Weird.

[BIG H]

I think beating Jeff Lacy, Mikkel Kessler, A still very good Bernard Hopkins, World champions such as Eubank, Woodhall, Reid, Mitchell & Brewer and remaining undefeated for 15 years would give you at least an equal claim as somebody who got banged out by a veteran Vince Philips

many think B-Hop beat him, Eubank was old and shot, many feel that even Reid beat Calzaghe, he remained undefeated for 15 yrs, cause he took on fighters like Peter Manfredo, and refused to take on the best while they were the best, for example Roy Jones, the bigger name, and Calzaghe didn't make an effort to get the fight until Jones was shot, hardly make Calzaghe an all time great

I dont think either Joe Calzaghe or Kostya Tszyu are all time great fighters.

Discuss.

same here, i'd say that both were the best in their respective divisions, but both had pretty weak divisions (and i'm saying this after re-watching and analysing most of Tszyu's big wins), both were very good fighters, i'd hardly say great

Eubank had plenty left, he put on one of his best performances against JC and then stepped up 2 weight divisions and had 2 epic battles with Carl Thompson. I had JC beating Reid and Nard. As for JC not making the effort to get the Jones fight, don't het me started on the fights Jones should've had and didn't!

[ElTerribleMorales]

I think beating Jeff Lacy, Mikkel Kessler, A still very good Bernard Hopkins, World champions such as Eubank, Woodhall, Reid, Mitchell & Brewer and remaining undefeated for 15 years would give you at least an equal claim as somebody who got banged out by a veteran Vince Philips

many think B-Hop beat him, Eubank was old and shot, many feel that even Reid beat Calzaghe, he remained undefeated for 15 yrs, cause he took on fighters like Peter Manfredo, and refused to take on the best while they were the best, for example Roy Jones, the bigger name, and Calzaghe didn't make an effort to get the fight until Jones was shot, hardly make Calzaghe an all time great

I dont think either Joe Calzaghe or Kostya Tszyu are all time great fighters.

Discuss.

same here, i'd say that both were the best in their respective divisions, but both had pretty weak divisions (and i'm saying this after re-watching and analysing most of Tszyu's big wins), both were very good fighters, i'd hardly say great

Eubank had plenty left, he put on one of his best performances against JC and then stepped up 2 weight divisions and had 2 epic battles with Carl Thompson. I had JC beating Reid and Nard. As for JC not making the effort to get the Jones fight, don't het me started on the fights Jones should've had and didn't!

why is that not a surprise coming from you? and you mean the same Thompson who already had 4 losses when he took on an ancient Eubank? i'd dare say more people will say that Hopkins and Reid won the fights against Calzaghe, and on the Jones thing, who was the bigger name in their primes on an international level? that's right it was the man who was p4p king for most of his career, Jones Jr