WTF Happened with Haye?!

[Fenster]

Being the undisputed lineal cruiser champ earned him his shot (and the fact he's exciting and can sell a fight). When fighters decide to move up, after conquering a divison, they don't drop from being world-class, right? In almost ALL cases the fighter moves straight into a title shot.

Haye's situation is no different.

So stop with the "only two heavyweight fights" bollocks.

Is it bollocks I mean by your standards I guess Tyson Fury should have had his shot years ago.

Sure Haye was a cruiserweight champ but did he do anything spectacular? Not in my eyes, he beat Jean Marc Mormeck and that's just about it...Enzo Maccarinelli ain't shit, Tomaz Bonin isn't anything, and his biggest win coming vs Monte Barrett is just plain WEAK.

I'm sorry, but David Haye isn't that special yet, he's never even had back-to-back heavyweight fights, that is just lame as hell

err.. no, it's the total opposite. Tyson Fury hasn't proven himself world-class.

The example i've given you shows - the credentials of WORLD-CLASS fighters carry when moving up a division. That is a fact. I can give you a million examples - Spinks-Holmes, Leonard-Hagler, Pac-Hatton, Marquez-Casamayor, Hopkins-Tarver etc etc etc.. none of the guys stepping up PROVED themselves in the higher division, right? It didn't stop them from getting a shot. It didn't stop them from winning. You get it?

This is David Hayes situation. Simple as.

You may well believe he's crap, but the fact is he conquered the cruiserweight division. His exploits at cruiser combined with his exciting style made him a BIG draw straight away at heavyweight, hence the Klits setting up a 60,000 seat stadium for him.

[AdamGB]

Lyle maybe if Tyson Fury was undisputed, lineal Cruiser Weight Champion you'd have a better argument?

As I've said before... 100s of fighters call out 'the man' in the division when they haven't worked their way up to him yet... look at how many stalkers Floyd Mayweather has. It's pretty much the done thing in boxing.

The difference is most of these guys say 'what has he done' 'why should I fight him' 'he's not done enough yet'... WLAD took the fight... what do you want Haye to do? Say "sorry... I'd rather fight 10 other guys first".

Your problem seems to be the fact that Haye got the fight made... that's Wlad's fault.

And if the Heavyweight division wasn't so piss poor I'm sure Wlad would have found it a lot easier to say 'get in line, wait your turn'.
The rate at which the tickets were selling must show that he had some credentials in the eyes of the non-lyle boxing public?

[El Kabong]

OK in the past 50 years how many "World Class" Cruiserweights have really gone on to be spectacular at heavyweight?

I can tell you right now without even looking it up that more light heavyweights have done better in the heavyweight division than cruiserweights.

[Fenster]

OK in the past 50 years how many "World Class" Cruiserweights have really gone on to be spectacular at heavyweight?

I can tell you right now without even looking it up that more light heavyweights have done better in the heavyweight division than cruiserweights.

What does that have to do with anything? How many had the desire or size to fight at heavyweight?

The division has only been around since the early 80s anyway. That's not even 30 years of history let alone 50.

[El Kabong]

OK so fine since cruiserweight started who has moved up and done things at heavyweight? And yes this is relevant because either you're saying "This happens all the time, cruiserweights routinely move up and become champions" OR you're saying "David Haye is skilled like no other cruiserweight bar Evander Holyfield"....and I think either way you look at it that's pretty damn stupid.

The TRUTH of the matter is that light heavyweights who move up to heavyweight have done better than cruiserweights....that's a FACT.

Do you think Tomaz Adamek could hang with any halfway decent heavyweight How about Steve Cunningham? Hell Vassily Jirov was one of the best cruiserweights around and he moved up to heavyweight, had a decent fight vs Joe Mesi (a very average fighter) and then ended up getting beat down by the likes of an old Michael Moorer and he ended up fighting to a draw with ORLIN NORRIS!!!!

[Fenster]

OK so fine since cruiserweight started who has moved up and done things at heavyweight? And yes this is relevant because either you're saying "This happens all the time, cruiserweights routinely move up and become champions" OR you're saying "David Haye is skilled like no other cruiserweight bar Evander Holyfield"....and I think either way you look at it that's pretty damn stupid.

The TRUTH of the matter is that light heavyweights who move up to heavyweight have done better than cruiserweights....that's a FACT.

Do you think Tomaz Adamek could hang with any halfway decent heavyweight How about Steve Cunningham? Hell Vassily Jirov was one of the best cruiserweights around and he moved up to heavyweight, had a decent fight vs Joe Mesi (a very average fighter) and then ended up getting beat down by the likes of an old Michael Moorer and he ended up fighting to a draw with ORLIN NORRIS!!!!

I'm not saying either.

I'm saying Haye has proven himself a world-class fighter.

It's irrelevant whether or not he's a success at heavyweight. If he can't cope at heavyweight it will be because the weight difference was too much for him, not because he couldn't hack it ability wise. This is NO different to ANY other world-class fighter from ANY other division attempting a rise in weight.

[ono]

OK so fine since cruiserweight started who has moved up and done things at heavyweight? And yes this is relevant because either you're saying "This happens all the time, cruiserweights routinely move up and become champions" OR you're saying "David Haye is skilled like no other cruiserweight bar Evander Holyfield"....and I think either way you look at it that's pretty damn stupid.

The TRUTH of the matter is that light heavyweights who move up to heavyweight have done better than cruiserweights....that's a FACT.

Do you think Tomaz Adamek could hang with any halfway decent heavyweight How about Steve Cunningham? Hell Vassily Jirov was one of the best cruiserweights around and he moved up to heavyweight, had a decent fight vs Joe Mesi (a very average fighter) and then ended up getting beat down by the likes of an old Michael Moorer and he ended up fighting to a draw with ORLIN NORRIS!!!!

Yeah but that has no relevance whatsoever as none of them are David Haye.

[AdamGB]

OK in the past 50 years how many "World Class" Cruiserweights have really gone on to be spectacular at heavyweight?

I can tell you right now without even looking it up that more light heavyweights have done better in the heavyweight division than cruiserweights.

So what?

David Haye isn't a light Heavy Weight or a Cruiserweight from the past 50 years... David Haye is David Haye.

How many Eastern Europian fighters were ruling the division 50 years ago Lyle?

Doesn't matter though does it, because both questions are irelevant to the fact that Haye secured the fight and that is that... we are not talking about how well he will do based on the law of averages... we are talking about the fact he didn't fight his way to the belt. if he'd had to fight his way to it I'm sure he would have set about that instead. But he didn't have to.

Can't see were the dicussion can go from there.

[El Kabong]

So what?

David Haye isn't a light Heavy Weight or a Cruiserweight from the past 50 years... David Haye is David Haye.

How many Eastern Europian fighters were ruling the division 50 years ago Lyle?

Doesn't matter though does it, because both questions are irelevant to the fact that Haye secured the fight and that is that... we are not talking about how well he will do based on the law of averages... we are talking about the fact he didn't fight his way to the belt. if he'd had to fight his way to it I'm sure he would have set about that instead. But he didn't have to.

Can't see were the dicussion can go from there.

Up until the 1990's the Eastern Europeans were in something called Communism and therefore only allowed to box amateur....so that's a moot point.

If you want to see Haye get his ass whupped then fine, I just find it amusing that the same people that said "Wlad isn't ready" are the exact same people that are saying "David Haye deserves a title shot"...such a double standard.

It doesn't matter how weak you percieve the division to be David Haye isn't ready AND if you were a true FAN you would be worried and rightfully so. With David Haye's style 1 big beat down at heavyweight could ruin him forever.....but I guess he's ready for it, I mean he already has achieved sooooo much fighting the likes of an Old Jean Marc Mormeck, Tomaz Bonin, and Monte Barrett.....oh wait, I left out Enzo Maccarinelli! Man Enzo has been on a hot streak lately huh? He certainly turned out to be an awesome force in the cruiserweight division

[AdamGB]

So what?

David Haye isn't a light Heavy Weight or a Cruiserweight from the past 50 years... David Haye is David Haye.

How many Eastern Europian fighters were ruling the division 50 years ago Lyle?

Doesn't matter though does it, because both questions are irelevant to the fact that Haye secured the fight and that is that... we are not talking about how well he will do based on the law of averages... we are talking about the fact he didn't fight his way to the belt. if he'd had to fight his way to it I'm sure he would have set about that instead. But he didn't have to.

Can't see were the dicussion can go from there.

Up until the 1990's the Eastern Europeans were in something called Communism and therefore only allowed to box amateur....so that's a moot point.

Finally mate!! you're getting it!

If you want to see Haye get his ass whupped then fine, I just find it amusing that the same people that said "Wlad isn't ready" are the exact same people that are saying "David Haye deserves a title shot"...such a double standard.

Which people said that I want names and quotes mate... it sounds like mild paranioa, do you think everybody who likes Haye has always been out to get Wlad or something? What does that have to do with Haye not being able to get a shot at the title... despite the fact that he did?

It doesn't matter how weak you percieve the division to be David Haye isn't ready AND if you were a true FAN you would be worried and rightfully so.

I don't consider myself of 'fan' of David Haye, or only other boxer per se... I've told you this before, I'm not in Hayes corner just because you're in Wlad's.

With David Haye's style 1 big beat down at heavyweight could ruin him forever.....but I guess he's ready for it, I mean he already has achieved sooooo much fighting the likes of an Old Jean Marc Mormeck, Tomaz Bonin, and Monte Barrett.....oh wait, I left out Enzo Maccarinelli! Man Enzo has been on a hot streak lately huh? He certainly turned out to be an awesome force in the cruiserweight division

You've sort of went off on a bit of a tangent there haven't you mate... all I've talked about is the fact that you're upset because Haye did what every other fighter does (even when they're are not an undisputed champion at ANY weight) which is call out the best fighters, don't get all butt hurt just because Wlad took the fight.

[CFH]

Being the undisputed lineal cruiser champ earned him his shot (and the fact he's exciting and can sell a fight). When fighters decide to move up, after conquering a divison, they don't drop from being world-class, right? In almost ALL cases the fighter moves straight into a title shot.

Haye's situation is no different.

So stop with the "only two heavyweight fights" bollocks.

Is it bollocks I mean by your standards I guess Tyson Fury should have had his shot years ago.

Sure Haye was a cruiserweight champ but did he do anything spectacular? Not in my eyes, he beat Jean Marc Mormeck and that's just about it...Enzo Maccarinelli ain't shit, Tomaz Bonin isn't anything, and his biggest win coming vs Monte Barrett is just plain WEAK.

I'm sorry, but David Haye isn't that special yet, he's never even had back-to-back heavyweight fights, that is just lame as hell

err.. no, it's the total opposite. Tyson Fury hasn't proven himself world-class.

The example i've given you shows - the credentials of WORLD-CLASS fighters carry when moving up a division. That is a fact. I can give you a million examples - Spinks-Holmes, Leonard-Hagler, Pac-Hatton, Marquez-Casamayor, Hopkins-Tarver etc etc etc.. none of the guys stepping up PROVED themselves in the higher division, right? It didn't stop them from getting a shot. It didn't stop them from winning. You get it?

This is David Hayes situation. Simple as.

You may well believe he's crap, but the fact is he conquered the cruiserweight division. His exploits at cruiser combined with his exciting style made him a BIG draw straight away at heavyweight, hence the Klits setting up a 60,000 seat stadium for him.

I was going to attempt to say basically the same thing.