Would an improved scoring system reduce "dodgy decisions"?

[Kev]

[quote=CGM;746436][quote=Bilbo;746426]

I can't argue against your first two paragraphs, cause it's just an opinion, as is mine, except that you might well ask why do they score it 10-8 for every flash knockdown. But paragraph three implies there is no reasonable way to differentiate between a dominant round and an "edged" round, or that judges, and that includes you and me, are inherently incapable of dealing with the situation, which I don't accept.

Can you not see that you're deviating from the true goal of boxing which is to knock your opponent out?

Scoring is only necessary in the event of a non decision i.e no stoppage before the fight ends, its the not the primary goal of the sport. Like in chess checkmate overrules any strategic or positional advantages acumalated during the fight.

for health and safety reasons and to be able to score in the event of a non result fights are split into rounds and a record is kept of who in the judges eyes won a particular round.

Knockdowns score points, as they should, as knocking your opponent to the canvas is the primary goal of boxing, much like a goal in football (soccer).

One team can spend 15 minutes camped in their own half desperately defending with shots hitting the crossbar and coming back off the post, but if the opposition team doesn't score the goal (knockdown) they get no credit for it, because strategic advantages (just like in chess and boxing) are not the primary goal of the sport itself but rather a way to achieve the primary goal.

In my mind if a fighter puts his opponent down he wins the round 10-8 without any discussion as he has achieved the goal of boxing, which is to put your opponent down. If the opponent has outboxed him for most of the round all he is doing (to make another chess analagy) is making use of the his strategic, positional advantages to try ang get a material gain (knockdown) or checkmate (ko).

If he doesn't convert his advantage in a round into either of these he certainly shouldn't be awarded double points in a round for 'dominating' imo.

The current system has a simplicity about it which is necessary I believe, 10-9 for winning the round, 10-8 for scoring a knockdown etc.

It's lasted for a hundred years or so because it works for the most part.

[CGM]

[QUOTE=Bilbo;746446][quote=CGM;746436]

Can you not see that you're deviating from the true goal of boxing which is to knock your opponent out?

Scoring is only necessary in the event of a non decision i.e no stoppage before the fight ends, its the not the primary goal of the sport. Like in chess checkmate overrules any strategic or positional advantages acumalated during the fight.

for health and safety reasons and to be able to score in the event of a non result fights are split into rounds and a record is kept of who in the judges eyes won a particular round.

Knockdowns score points, as they should, as knocking your opponent to the canvas is the primary goal of boxing, much like a goal in football (soccer).

Thank you for illuminating for me the true nature of boxing. By golly no, it never occurred to me that a knockout is the true goal, and all other issues are secondary, and therefore there is no point in differentiating between whatever. You logic is astounding.

You chess analogy is absurd. it's apples and oranges. Ultimately, it is within the control of eitehr player to force the game to one and only one decisive conclusion. It's obviously not the same with boxing.

Anyways, you continue to argue against my suggestion by begging the question. Maybe you impress yourself and a few others with that kind of argument, but I really don't have the patience.

[Kev]

[quote=CGM;746457][quote=Bilbo;746446]

Thank you for illuminating for me the true nature of boxing. By golly no, it never occurred to me that a knockout is the true goal, and all other issues are secondary, and therefore there is no point in differentiating between whatever. You logic is astounding.

You chess analogy is absurd. it's apples and oranges. Ultimately, it is within the control of eitehr player to force the game to one and only one decisive conclusion. It's obviously not the same with boxing.

Anyways, you continue to argue against my suggestion by begging the question. Maybe you impress yourself and a few others with that kind of argument, but I really don't have the patience.

You always get so tetchy CGM simply unable to have a disagreement with anyone about anything.

The boxing rules as they stand are fine. If a boxer outboxes his opponent he wins the round 10-9, if he knocks him down he scores 10-8 that's the way it SHOULD be.

This simple scoring method has been workable for 100 years and is a lot less subjective than having judges deciding how much one fighter beat another in each round.

If judges can disagree on any given round with 3 simple options, Fighter A, Fighter B, or even how much more are they likely to disagree when given the choice of Figher A wins by 1 point, Fighter A wins by 2 points, Fighter B wins by 1 point, Fighter B wins by 2 point, the round is even.

Multiply that by 12 rounds you are giving judges another potential 24 differences of opinion over the course of a fight. How you think this would lead to more fair, balanced and less dodgy decisions is completely beyond me.

Please explain how you think the judges are competent enough to score correctly in your new 5 selection choices per round scoring method but are incompetent to score correctly in the current 3 selection choices per round scoring method?

And if you try and argue that the judges do an ok job now then why change a system that is clearly working?

Can you give a single fight example in history where a blatent robbery occurred but that the fight would have been correctly scored in favour of the true winner if only the judges has 5 selection choices per round instead of 3?

You accuse me of begging the question and faulty logic but the burden of proof is not on me. This has been the system to score fights for the best part of 100 years, it's part of the very traditions of boxing. If you want to change it and usher in a revolutionary new scoring system then surely you need to have outstanding and damning evidence against the workability of the current system. If that is the case, then lets hear it.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

[QUOTE=Bilbo;746446][quote=CGM;746436]

Can you not see that you're deviating from the true goal of boxing which is to knock your opponent out?

Scoring is only necessary in the event of a non decision i.e no stoppage before the fight ends, its the not the primary goal of the sport. Like in chess checkmate overrules any strategic or positional advantages acumalated during the fight.

As much as I agree with you within the context of scoring bouts, I have to point out that you are inadvertantly making a case for that of punchers being favoured in scoring, given the opinion that the main goal of a fight is to knock your opponent out.

Has Boxing not moved away from this notion?

[Spicoli]

I believe that the problem has always been the the execution/interpretation of the system and how it is left to be massaged as opposed to the system it self.Their simply is no follow through and consequences handed down from state commissions and Promoters etc for clearly faulty results that are in error.......more often than not one gets the impression that the influence sways to a promotions 'house' fighter,almost an unspoken fact that has gone on for ages.They need to review these judges and should a card be handed in that is clearly off the mark from the majority...have them analyze the fight and break it down as to how that conclusion was arrived at.Review and cause and effect is key.Look for patterns.These are not just a open and close affair...these shite decisions effect a guys career and finances in each and every case.

Not sure about scoring a round in a lesser degree for being close or wide.They need to focus concern on just getting the round to the deserved fighter in the first place.Sort of expecting them to before they have learned to walk properly.They should also review the use of referees as judges on the same card.Sort of blurs the lines in a very short time frame.

[Kev]

[quote=Jimboogie;746788][quote=Bilbo;746446]

As much as I agree with you within the context of scoring bouts, I have to point out that you are inadvertantly making a case for that of punchers being favoured in scoring, given the opinion that the main goal of a fight is to knock your opponent out.

Has Boxing not moved away from this notion?

Not at all, I actually think a new scoring method with judges able to award more points for dominating the round would favour punchers more as obviously light punching, elusive types like Calderon, Spinks, Malignaggi, Mayweather at the higher weights etc are less likely to have massively one sided rounds than huge punching or fast relentless tpye fighters like Pacquaio, Pavlik etc.

The current system is completely fine imo. If you outbox your opponent over the course of a round you will win the round 10-9. If you knock them down you will win the round 10-8 (which is fair as a knockdown is a tangible material gain).

But if you dominate a round, throwing and landing far more than your opponent but he doesn't go down or take a knee then you still only win the round 10-9. That's the way it should be, that's the strategy that fighters work to, sometimes taking a round off to catch their breath etc.

To use the Cotto Clottey fight again, when Cotto had Clottey on the ropes for an entire round he was totally dominating the round, but the correct score for the round is still only 10-9 Cotto because he didn't floor Clottey in that round. That's the way it should be.

Each round is a seperate mini event and the idea of being able to score more winning your rounds than you opponent does winning his (without kncokdowns and point deductions) would just make for frankly ridiculous scoring results.

You could easily imagine a fight like Marquez Pacquaio 2 being scored completely differently by each of the three judges under such rules, one giving Pacquaio double points for most of the rounds he won, Marquez only getting single points for his rounds or vice versa. A close fight could end up reading as a total domination and UD for one guy thanks to the new complications of the system.